There are 3 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Another Sketch: Palno
From: Logan Kearsley
2a. Re: A new Tirelat alphabet: Kjaginic
From: Herman Miller
2b. Re: A new Tirelat alphabet: Kjaginic
From: Herman Miller
Messages
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1a. Re: Another Sketch: Palno
Posted by: "Logan Kearsley" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:37 pm ((PDT))
> On 8/26/08, Logan Kearsley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Or after the third, leaving an incomplete sentence. You can't tell
>> without the commas. They are absolutely required. It would be nice to
>> have a way around that, but I haven't found one yet.
>
> How are the written commas represented in speech?
> Timing, stress, intonation...? Some conlangs have
Timing, and intonation indicating breaks between clauses.
It's not something I've formalized yet, though I probably should.
It'll add another paragraph to my grammar....
Looking again at my example sentence "I like people who eat apples":
I pronounce "nen tcelokai, kotor pona :esat, agapit" with a prominent
dropping tone on "-kai", followed by a pause (can't be the end of a
clause 'cause it's incomplete, and followed by "kotor"), then another
prominent dropping tone on "-sat" followed by a pause (indicating that
this really is the end of a clause, not a predicate that will be used
as an argument for anything else), and a less pronounced dropping tone
on "-pit", again indicating that the clause is complete. I think I
don't make the dropping tone on the sentence-final syllable as
prominent because the end of a sentence is additionally marked by a
noticeably longer inter-sentence pause (or just stopping speaking
entirely).
> parenthetical or comma grammatical particles; parenthetical
> particles are better for disambiguating arbitrarily complex
> sentences, but I'm not sure they're natural enough for
> humans to learn to use them in realtime.
The elegance of a postfix system is that parenthetical markers are
unnecessary for perfect disambiguation (hence RPN arithmetic),
although the relative clause system I added breaks that a bit. I've
considered using parenthetical particles in a couple of other
languages, but I also think that they're not really practical for easy
real-time human comprehension. Is there any natural language that uses
them?
-l.
Messages in this topic (8)
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2a. Re: A new Tirelat alphabet: Kjaginic
Posted by: "Herman Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:11 pm ((PDT))
Logan Kearsley wrote:
> Looks nice.
> Like most feature-based systems, though, it seems to suffer from lots
> of letters looking very similar. Not an insurmountable problem,
> obviously (and, hey, Latin gets along with d, b, and p), but might
> further changes include font-alterations to make the letters more
> distinct (like the use of serifs in Latin script)?
That's always a problem with these scripts, and one of the reasons I
decided against using Tharkania for Tirelat. The Tharkania letters just
looked too much alike with all the straight strokes.
http://www.io.com/~hmiller/png/tharkania.png
One of the reasons Tolkien's scripts don't suffer from this limitation
as much as some of the others is that they're drawn by hand, with the
natural asymmetries of writing with a pen. I might want to pick up a
calligraphy pen one of these days and try using it to draw the Kjaginic.
But I'm hoping to make them readable enough without needing to add
serifs or extra features.
Messages in this topic (6)
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2b. Re: A new Tirelat alphabet: Kjaginic
Posted by: "Herman Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:23 pm ((PDT))
Benct Philip Jonsson wrote:
> I like the consonant signs very much, but beside them
> the very angular and vertical vowel signs strike me the
> wrong way: frankly the two look like they belong to
> two different writing systems or calligraphic styles
> entirely. I keep seeing for my mind's eye vowel shapes
> with rounded hooks rather than angles, somewhat like
> Visible Speech vowels. I've tried to create an
> image, using Mark Shoulson's VS font at
> <http://tinyurl.com/6jjuco>. I could well imagine
> the existence of an alternative style where the
> rounded bends of the consonants are replaced by
> angles and the vowels are angular too, perhaps
> used for titles or similar to italics/katakana.
There could very well be different styles that follow the same basic
design. It might be helpful to see the letters in the context of some
actual text (from the fourth Conlang relay, not fully updated to the
current version of the language).
http://www.io.com/~hmiller/png/kjaginic-example.png
Messages in this topic (6)
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