There are 13 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Ultralingua
From: Philip Newton
1b. Re: Ultralingua
From: Lee
1c. Re: Ultralingua
From: vii iiix
2a. Re: Translation excercise: Unabsteigbarkeit
From: John Q
2b. Re: Translation excercise: Unabsteigbarkeit
From: Toms Deimonds Barvidis
2c. Re: Translation excercise: Unabsteigbarkeit
From: Mechthild Czapp
3a. OT: Funny Website about Latin
From: Vincent Pistelli
3b. Re: OT: Funny Website about Latin
From: Matthew Turnbull
3c. Re: OT: Funny Website about Latin
From: Garth Wallace
3d. Re: OT: Funny Website about Latin
From: Patrick Dunn
3e. Re: OT: Funny Website about Latin
From: Peter Bleackley
3f. Re: OT: Funny Website about Latin
From: Lars Finsen
4. Viernheim
From: Peter Bleackley
Messages
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1a. Re: Ultralingua
Posted by: "Philip Newton" [email protected]
Date: Thu Aug 5, 2010 9:47 am ((PDT))
Interesting - thanks! Especially the fact that they included Speers.
On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 17:19, Lee <[email protected]> wrote:
> Perhaps more olds than news... I ran across a small language translation
> software company that includes a couple conlangs in their offerings.
>
> Article:
> http://www.mndaily.com/2009/11/17/local-company-creates-klingon-dictionary
>
> Company web site:
> http://www.ultralingua.com
>
> Lee
>
>
>
>
>
--
Philip Newton <[email protected]>
Messages in this topic (3)
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1b. Re: Ultralingua
Posted by: "Lee" [email protected]
Date: Thu Aug 5, 2010 12:52 pm ((PDT))
Now you've done it. You pointed out Speers, so naturally I had look him up on
the web. ADHDing my way from one shiny link to another, I end up reading a few
pages on Klingon grammar in Okrant's dictionary. And thanks to my local
bookstore chain tossing a coupon in my mailbox this morning, I now have said
dictionary waiting for pickup at said venue for a nice discount.
This of course means, I must also make a stop at the local second-hand
bookstore on the way to the first-hand bookstore, just in case the volume can
be had for even less. Even if they don't have the Klingon Dictionary, chances
are low I'll be able to escape without relieving them of yet another
linguistics title.
Curse you, conlang obsession! Curse you!
--- On Thu, 8/5/10, Philip Newton <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Philip Newton <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Ultralingua
To: [email protected]
Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 11:36 AM
Interesting - thanks! Especially the fact that they included Speers.
On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 17:19, Lee <[email protected]> wrote:
> Perhaps more olds than news... I ran across a small language translation
> software company that includes a couple conlangs in their offerings.
>
> Article:
> http://www.mndaily.com/2009/11/17/local-company-creates-klingon-dictionary
>
> Company web site:
> http://www.ultralingua.com
>
> Lee
>
>
>
>
>
--
Philip Newton <[email protected]>
Messages in this topic (3)
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1c. Re: Ultralingua
Posted by: "vii iiix" [email protected]
Date: Thu Aug 5, 2010 6:08 pm ((PDT))
> Now you've done it. You pointed out Speers, so naturally I had look him up on
> the web. ADHDing my way from one shiny link to another, I end up reading a
> few pages on Klingon grammar in Okrant's dictionary. And thanks to my local
> bookstore chain tossing a coupon in my mailbox this morning, I now have said
> dictionary waiting for pickup at said venue for a nice discount.
>
> This of course means, I must also make a stop at the local second-hand
> bookstore on the way to the first-hand bookstore, just in case the volume can
> be had for even less. Even if they don't have the Klingon Dictionary, chances
> are low I'll be able to escape without relieving them of yet another
> linguistics title.
>
> Curse you, conlang obsession! Curse you!
Hahah sounds like me and the bookstores I go to...
Messages in this topic (3)
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2a. Re: Translation excercise: Unabsteigbarkeit
Posted by: "John Q" [email protected]
Date: Thu Aug 5, 2010 10:15 am ((PDT))
Mechthild Czapp wrote:
>So, my question is: How do you translate the two concepts ("the ability of
a team not to be relegated into a lower league" and "the ability to easily
form words from affixes")?
Ithkuil equivalent to the first concept:
wöíçqaimivdzâ (the "dz" digraph should actually be a barred-z)
wöí-çqaim-iv-dzâ
PSN/ASO/A CST/person/ABS incapable of position in lower echelon
of hierarchy
PSN = POSITIONAL conflation: indicates formative carries verbal notion of
placement or being positioned
ASO = ASSOCIATIVE affiliation: indicates the formative stem [QAM person]
is being referenced within a context of human-directed or human-caused
functionality or benefit. (Operates in conjunction with the CST
configuration below to generate the meaning team.)
A = ABSTRACT (shown by preantepenultimate stress): the word is an abstract
concept similar to English the function of English -ness or -hood or
the concept of
CST = COMPOSITE configuration: indicates a multiple set of the the
formative stem [QAM person] that operates as a synergistic gestalt in a
coordinated fashion. (Operates in conjunction with the ASO affiliation
above to generate the meaning team.)
ABS = ABSOLUTIVE case: indicates that the formative is being made to do
something by an external party
Literal translation:
The concept of a team incapable of being placed in the lower echelons of a
hierarchy.
--John Q.
Messages in this topic (12)
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2b. Re: Translation excercise: Unabsteigbarkeit
Posted by: "Toms Deimonds Barvidis" [email protected]
Date: Thu Aug 5, 2010 12:35 pm ((PDT))
The Longrimol translation for ''the ability of a team not to be relegated into
a lower league" is ''intuilnaj'dha'' (the '
stands for an elided repeated vowel, as the word should've been
''-tuilajadha'') [in'tujlnajaða], more literary translated
as ''unlowerability'', ''the state of not being capable to be lowered''.
It derives from verb ''tuilnan'' (to make low), and ultimately from adjective
"tuil", meaning "low".
As for the ''the ability to easily form words from affixes'', I would translate
it as ''(saljar)lönnömaimaj'dha''
[saÊjar]['løn:ø'maimajða] ("saljar-" is short for "saljaril" (easily), but I
considered it not to be obligatory). The word
itself derives from "lonnom" (word) (pl. lönnöm), and "aiman" (to create, to
form).
"Piljeindaj'dha" [piÊ'jÉindajða] is a name I created to translate "easily
understood from its stem and affixes", though
the term literary means "easily deciphered".
"Víjraj'dha" - another form, this time using "víjra" (to understand) as a base.
--
In mist and twilight I shall linger
~TDB~
Quoting "Mechthild Czapp" <[email protected]>:
> Hejida hakim,
>
> since a topic change would atm be in order and a discussion on the #conlang
>IRC channel on Freenode* brought something up. I decided to throw it onto
>the list here. Don't stone me!
>
> There are words, which are understood even though you never saw them before
>just by looking at the stem and the affixes (one example is Intolerability
>or in German: Unabsteigbarkeit). On IRC and the Rejistanian Word of the Day
>blog**, I occasionally use Unabsteigbarkeit to refer to that ability. This
>is done as a kind of analogue to 'cellar door' for euphonic words. A
>language which completely lacks this is of course Toki Pona where
>Unabsteigbarkeit (the ability of a team not to be relegated into a lower
>league) is translated as kulupu ni li weka tan anpa wawa tan ante kulupu
>suli.
>
> So, my question is: How do you translate the two concepts ("the ability of a
>team not to be relegated into a lower league" and "the ability to easily
>form words from affixes")?
>
> Rejistanian uses ehasalan'ta'tan (to get relegated-NEG-Abstract noun suffix)
>and helkuhimoda'tan (link-part-word-Abstract noun suffix.)
>
> Here is a real sentence: Aetaila Seli proved its unrelegatability in the
>last matches of the season and eventually finished on the 14th place, 3
>scored goals above relegation.
>
> Aetaila Seli mi'la'niva ehasalan'ta'tan'mi milhan'het'ny'jet lune
>asty'het'jet ji mi'la'uta'ra ra ke mji'het ji xkora'het'ny ly sidekhir
>ehasalan'tan'ra salan.
>
> Aetaila Seli 3S-PST-show relegability-NEG-GEN3S match-PL-TEMP last year-TEMP
>and 3S-PST-finish-LOC place ten four-ORD and score-PL three reached
>relegation-LOC high.
>
> BTW: Is it just my perception that conlangs have more Unabsteigbarkeiten
>than natlangs?
>
> Va'il veka,
> Mechthild!
>
> * wink, wink, nudge, nudge
> ** shameless plug: http://rejistania.wordpress.com
> --
> Bitte beachten Sie, dass nach den deutschen Gesetzen zur
>Vorratsdatenspeicherung jeder Kontakt mit mir 6 Monate lang gespeichert
>wird.
> Please take into account that according the German data retention laws,
>every contact with me is stored for 6 months.
>
>
> GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
> Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01
Messages in this topic (12)
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2c. Re: Translation excercise: Unabsteigbarkeit
Posted by: "Mechthild Czapp" [email protected]
Date: Thu Aug 5, 2010 4:47 pm ((PDT))
Wow! I am (once again) amazed of your language.
-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 13:11:28 -0400
> Von: John Q <[email protected]>
> An: [email protected]
> Betreff: Re: Translation excercise: Unabsteigbarkeit
> Mechthild Czapp wrote:
>
> >So, my question is: How do you translate the two concepts ("the ability
> of
> a team not to be relegated into a lower league" and "the ability to easily
> form words from affixes")?
>
> Ithkuil equivalent to the first concept:
>
> wöíçqaimivdzâ (the "dz" digraph should actually be a barred-z)
>
> wöí-çqaim-iv-dzâ
> PSN/ASO/A â CST/âpersonâ/ABS â âincapable ofâ â âposition
> in lower echelon
> of hierarchyâ
>
> PSN = POSITIONAL conflation: indicates formative carries verbal notion of
> placement or being positioned
>
> ASO = ASSOCIATIVE affiliation: indicates the formative stem [QAM
> âpersonâ]
> is being referenced within a context of human-directed or human-caused
> functionality or benefit. (Operates in conjunction with the CST
> configuration below to generate the meaning âteamâ.)
>
> A = ABSTRACT (shown by preantepenultimate stress): the word is an
> abstract
> concept similar to English the function of English â-nessâ or
> â-hoodâ or
> âthe concept ofâ¦â
>
> CST = COMPOSITE configuration: indicates a multiple set of the the
> formative stem [QAM âpersonâ] that operates as a synergistic gestalt
> in a
> coordinated fashion. (Operates in conjunction with the ASO affiliation
> above to generate the meaning âteamâ.)
>
> ABS = ABSOLUTIVE case: indicates that the formative is being made to do
> something by an external party
>
> Literal translation:
>
> âThe concept of a team incapable of being placed in the lower echelons
> of a
> hierarchy.â
>
> --John Q.
--
Sanja'xen mi'lanja'kynha ,mi'la'ohix'ta jilih, nka.
My life would be easy if it was not so hard!
GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01
Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
3a. OT: Funny Website about Latin
Posted by: "Vincent Pistelli" [email protected]
Date: Thu Aug 5, 2010 5:57 pm ((PDT))
http://mysite.du.edu/~etuttle/classics/latin/learnlat.htm
The person who wrote this website obviously knows nothing about
linguistics(besides knowing Latin, maybe). He claims that the modern Romance
languages did not come from Latin. He thinks that they were created by
speakers of Latin(Sort of true in a sense), but that they did not come from
Latin. He says the same thing for the relationship between Old English and
Modern English. He is basically claiming that all natlangs are really
conlangs. I found the site while searching for free online Latin lessons.
The funniest thing is that it is a .edu website.
Messages in this topic (6)
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3b. Re: OT: Funny Website about Latin
Posted by: "Matthew Turnbull" [email protected]
Date: Thu Aug 5, 2010 8:03 pm ((PDT))
"As Alexander Humez will inform you, Latin is an Indo-European language, and
gives a kind of history that is often elaborated, but is pure wind."
favourite lollzy sentence.
Messages in this topic (6)
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3c. Re: OT: Funny Website about Latin
Posted by: "Garth Wallace" [email protected]
Date: Fri Aug 6, 2010 12:33 am ((PDT))
I say we hold a debate between this guy and Edo Nyland.
On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Vincent Pistelli <[email protected]> wrote:
> http://mysite.du.edu/~etuttle/classics/latin/learnlat.htm
>
> The person who wrote this website obviously knows nothing about
> linguistics(besides knowing Latin, maybe). He claims that the modern Romance
> languages did not come from Latin. He thinks that they were created by
> speakers of Latin(Sort of true in a sense), but that they did not come from
> Latin. He says the same thing for the relationship between Old English and
> Modern English. He is basically claiming that all natlangs are really
> conlangs. I found the site while searching for free online Latin lessons.
>
> The funniest thing is that it is a .edu website.
>
Messages in this topic (6)
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3d. Re: OT: Funny Website about Latin
Posted by: "Patrick Dunn" [email protected]
Date: Fri Aug 6, 2010 12:38 am ((PDT))
::finds nearest wall::
::bangs head against it::
I mean, I am a known crackpot and ontological weirdo, but this -- this
is *BAD* linguistics, and that's a sin.
Messages in this topic (6)
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3e. Re: OT: Funny Website about Latin
Posted by: "Peter Bleackley" [email protected]
Date: Fri Aug 6, 2010 1:52 am ((PDT))
staving Patrick Dunn:
> ::finds nearest wall::
> ::bangs head against it::
>
> I mean, I am a known crackpot and ontological weirdo, but this -- this
> is *BAD* linguistics, and that's a sin.
Sounds like we should set up a support group.
"Crackpots and Ontological Weirdos Anonymous."
Other mock support groups I've thought of from time to time.
Surrealists Hieronymous.
Kleptomaniacs Anonymous. The self-help group for those who help
themselves. Please take a leaflet.
Pete
Messages in this topic (6)
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3f. Re: OT: Funny Website about Latin
Posted by: "Lars Finsen" [email protected]
Date: Fri Aug 6, 2010 4:04 am ((PDT))
Den 6. aug. 2010 kl. 02.37 skreiv Vincent Pistelli:
> http://mysite.du.edu/~etuttle/classics/latin/learnlat.htm
>
> The person who wrote this website obviously knows nothing about
> linguistics(besides knowing Latin, maybe). He claims that the
> modern Romance languages did not come from Latin. He thinks that
> they were created by speakers of Latin(Sort of true in a sense),
> but that they did not come from Latin. He says the same thing for
> the relationship between Old English and Modern English.
Curious, I wonder what sort of justification he has for this kind of
statement. Rather than English being created by Anglo-Saxon speakers,
I would say it was created by French speakers. But the English
dialects of today, or at least of recently, ought to be direct
descendants.
The idea of linguistic genealogy can be somewhat misleading, and some
have valid arguments against it. The transfer of language from one
generation onto another is a complex process which involves a lot of
creativity. So what of the transfer of a language from one population
onto another? We know of some modern instances of language
replacement processes, but this is in the context of modern national
states, modern population densities and modern means of
communication. Older transfer processes could be significantly
different. Rather than French being a direct descendant of Latin it
is a descendant of a local, imperfect copy of Latin. Italian ought to
be a direct descendant of Latin, but not of the Latin known from
literature, which is a conlang constructed by literati, more or less
in imitation of Greek, though literary Latin and the Vulgar Latin of
the masses have a common origin.
As for the Indoeuropeans, it has been convincingly argued that the
claim of the Balts, and especially the Lithuanians, being the direct
descendant of the original Indoeuropeans, is false. But not 100 %
convincingly, and some little doubt still remains in my mind.
> He is basically claiming that all natlangs are really conlangs.
Basically, all national written languages are conlangs. And most
countries have some kind of "high speak" based on the written
language. Much of linguistic evolution is consciously constructed in
some way. Even where the level of conscious guidance is lower, it's
not the same as a wholly unconscious physical process, rather it's
governed by waves of fashion, the pride of style of the users,
utility and the evolution of technology etc. Trees of language
evolution can be fascinating and useful in some way, but should not
be understood in the same way as a biological evolution tree.
LEF
Messages in this topic (6)
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4. Viernheim
Posted by: "Peter Bleackley" [email protected]
Date: Fri Aug 6, 2010 2:21 am ((PDT))
I'm off to visit friends who live in Viernheim next week. It turns out
that there's a church dedicated to St. Hildegard there. Must pay a visit.
Pete
Messages in this topic (1)
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