There are 4 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Help in constructing new language
From: Vishvanath Kulkarni
2.1. Re: New Year's Thoughts
From: Sam Stutter
2.2. Re: New Year's Thoughts
From: Roman Rausch
2.3. Re: New Year's Thoughts
From: MorphemeAddict
Messages
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1a. Re: Help in constructing new language
Posted by: "Vishvanath Kulkarni" [email protected]
Date: Thu Jan 5, 2012 10:31 pm ((PST))
Dear Mr. Padriac Brown,
Thanks very much for quick response and sharing your thoughts on this
topic. It has been a great help indeed.
Regards,
V.M.Kulkarni
On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Padraic Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
> Namaste Gents:
>
> However interesting Bharti might be as a conlang, I'm afraid that the
> present discussion is entirely centered on auxlang advocacy. While I
> doubt you'd get many flames for it here (or even in the Other List),
> Conlang isn't the apporpriate venue for this thread. Auxlang is really
> the most appropriate list for that kind of discussion. Vishvanath, if you'd
> like to describe and discuss your father's work here on Conlang, I know
> *that* discussion would be most welcome. I don't think we've seen even
> one Indian conlang hereabouts, leastways that I'm aware of!
>
> As for the question of preserving his work in printing, I think that is a
> commendable idea. Two methods present themselves immediately: creating a
> website to detail the language, and printing the grammar and description
> in a book. With a script that is apparently different from the usual
> Indian writing systems, it might be a lot of work, but I think technically
> possible to turn your father's letterforms into a font. You could then
> simply create a website with the grammar and lexicon.
>
> Another possibility, depending on the manuscript, is simply to type the
> description and grammar on paper, neatly transcribe the devised letters
> into the spaces left on the paper, and then scan the whole thing in to a
> PDF file. Easily transmitted, viewed online and printed by anyone
> interested. The PDF could also be used to submit to a self-publishing firm
> (like lulu.com), from which any interested person could purchase a printed
> copy of the book.
>
> Regards and good luck with your project!
>
> Padraic
>
> --- On Sat, 12/31/11, harvinder negi <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > From: harvinder negi <[email protected]>
> > Subject: Re: [CONLANG] Help in constructing new language
> > To: [email protected]
> > Date: Saturday, December 31, 2011, 11:21 PM
> > seems grand ideas. my reservations is
> > how can this be called a new script
> > and a language since language is built by its users, if no
> > one uses it at
> > present then how is it going to develop and when we have
> > already so many
> > languages and scripts to deal with why should we accept
> > this new one.
> > officially, hindi along side english is used in india, with
> > regional
> > languages also in use.
> > your idea sounds new. lets see what the new language
> > has...
> >
> > On 1 January 2012 00:51, Vishvanath Kulkarni
> > <[email protected]>wrote:
> >
> > > Hello All,
> > >
> > > Here's wishing all of you a very happy and prosperous
> > new year !I have
> > > recently joined this group. My father was a teacher in
> > India. He
> > > worked to develop a new language and script - called
> > "Bharti". I would
> > > like to brief you about it.
> > >
> > > Background:
> > >
> > > Hindi was to be the sole national language for India.
> > However, there
> > > was a resistance from Non Hindi speaking states
> > (particularly south
> > > Indian states) for Hindi being made the only national
> > language. Hence
> > > a duel language policy was adopted with both Hindi as
> > well as English
> > > to be used for government work.
> > >
> > > The opposition was based on the feeling of bias in
> > favour of Hindi
> > > Speaking people if we make Hindi as the only language
> > for Govt work.
> > > It would be easy for Hindi speaking people where as
> > Non Hindi speaking
> > > are required to learn additional language and they may
> > not be
> > > competitive for govt. jobs when they compete with
> > Hindi mother tongue
> > > people.
> > >
> > > In view of this, my father (who was a teacher as
> > well as Gandhian)
> > > thought of developing a new script and language for
> > all office work to
> > > be used by all Indians This will be new to all .
> > Hence, there would
> > > not be any opposition by anybody. Also this was to be
> > developed based
> > > on Indian languages . Hence the name Bharati.
> > > He was of the opinion that this will be easier to
> > learn than to learn
> > > English. He was also opposed to maintain Engilsh as
> > the language for
> > > all instead of any Indian Language.
> > > This was similar to concept of common European
> > Language ESPERANTO
> > >
> > >
> > > Work my father had done (all only hand written) after
> > his retirement:
> > >
> > > 1. Study scripts of all Indian Languages and develop a
> > new script
> > > BHARATI . Improvements were done to make the script
> > print /type
> > > friendly
> > >
> > > 2. He developed the grammer based on Indian languages
> > with some
> > > modifications to make things easier to understand and
> > easier to teach
> > >
> > > 3. He conducted training session in the village high
> > school to
> > > experiment as to how easy/difficult is this to
> > understand.
> > > He found that all students could easily pick up the
> > script.
> > > All the thrust was to make the new language/script
> > easy to learn and
> > > still will be Indian. (Even South Indian languages
> > have a lot common
> > > to Sanskrit -- mother of Indian Languages)
> > >
> > > 4. He prepared a dictionary for the words of the new
> > language(with
> > > English as well as Marathi)
> > >
> > >
> > > Help I need now:
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, the voluminous work has not been
> > printed. My father is
> > > no more. (He expired in 2006)
> > > The hand written work is available with me. I do not
> > know how to get
> > > the same printed ( as the scipt is different) and
> > whether some body
> > > would be interested in understanding the same and
> > developing further.
> > > At the same time I feel the exhaustive work done by my
> > father should
> > > be preserved. Hence I would like
> > to get the same printed/saved as
> > > soft copy) as the handwritten work will get spoilt
> > after some period.
> > >
> > > I also would like to know whether anybody would be
> > interested in going
> > > into the details.
> > > I request you to send this message through your
> > associations and also
> > > let me know if anybody would be interested or help
> > me.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks & Regards,
> > >
> > > V.M.Kulkarni
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Thanking you and regards.
> >
>
Messages in this topic (10)
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________________________________________________________________________
2.1. Re: New Year's Thoughts
Posted by: "Sam Stutter" [email protected]
Date: Fri Jan 6, 2012 2:04 am ((PST))
A lot of "proper art critics", by which I mean Brian Sewell, refuse to accept
any form of design, particularly cars and tech, as art "because art cannot be
useful".
Nonsense of course. But conlanging can easily be compared to film making which
*is* largely accepted as an art form and has recognisable styles, techniques
and traditions.
It's also something everyone can appreciate. What's the conlang "Citizen Kane"?
And what's the conlang Star Wars prequels? :)
Sam Stutter
[email protected]
"No e na il cu barri"
On 6 Jan 2012, at 02:08, Padraic Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
> --- On Thu, 1/5/12, David Peterson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> While people may have been creating languages for a thousand or more
>> years, *this* is newâand, crucially, it's something that's not new to
>> literature, pottery, rug weaving, etc. That's why I still contend that
>> conlanging, as we do it today, is *extremely* young.
>
> Okay, I'll buy the extended version: "conlanging *as we do it today* is a
> young art".
>
> But so is automobile design! Twasn't so long ago that auto designers drew
> pictures on something called paper and modellers made mockups for testing
> in something called a wind tunnel. Now it's CAD!
>
> Art is an ever renewing endeavor, and no mistake.
>
> But I think the argument could just as easily be made that "auto" designing
> is nothing more than "coach" designing rehashed for a new modality of
> propulsion... ;))
>
>> David Peterson
>
> Padraic
>
Messages in this topic (39)
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2.2. Re: New Year's Thoughts
Posted by: "Roman Rausch" [email protected]
Date: Fri Jan 6, 2012 4:31 am ((PST))
>Everything else is subjective, [...]
>Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
This is all true, and yet there is some objectivity in art - most would
agree that the Mona Lisa is a masterpiece, for example. Even if there are
people who might hate it, most don't. Statistics seems like the only
criterion for me - a masterpiece is a masterpiece when it is accepted by the
majority as such. This is also how I understand art criticism - a critic has
to be in tune with and anticipate the majority response.
Of course, such majority responses change in time, but I believe that after
some distance and perspective they change into a stable state. So if van
Gogh or whoever wasn't appreciated by contemporaries, he is appreciated now,
and that sentiment remains stable. Because of the young age of glossopoeia I
think we only have enough distance and perspective to judge Tolkien's works
(most of us do agree on a masterpiece here, don't we?), but as far as the
90s onwards are concerned, I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
Messages in this topic (39)
________________________________________________________________________
2.3. Re: New Year's Thoughts
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" [email protected]
Date: Fri Jan 6, 2012 6:21 am ((PST))
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 7:31 AM, Roman Rausch <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Everything else is subjective, [...]
> >Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
>
> This is all true, and yet there is some objectivity in art - most would
> agree that the Mona Lisa is a masterpiece, for example. Even if there are
> people who might hate it, most don't. Statistics seems like the only
> criterion for me - a masterpiece is a masterpiece when it is accepted by
> the
> majority as such. This is also how I understand art criticism - a critic
> has
> to be in tune with and anticipate the majority response.
>
> Of course, such majority responses change in time, but I believe that after
> some distance and perspective they change into a stable state. So if van
> Gogh or whoever wasn't appreciated by contemporaries, he is appreciated
> now,
> and that sentiment remains stable. Because of the young age of glossopoeia
> I
> think we only have enough distance and perspective to judge Tolkien's works
> (most of us do agree on a masterpiece here, don't we?), but as far as the
> 90s onwards are concerned, I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
>
I agree that "The Lord of the Rings" is a masterpiece, but his conlangs?
Not so much.
stevo
Messages in this topic (39)
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