There are 24 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: from Roger
From: Carsten Becker
1b. Re: from Roger
From: Matthew Turnbull
1c. Re: from Roger
From: Jörg Rhiemeier
1d. Re: from Roger
From: Larry Sulky
2a. Re: Phone*ic notation: Geminates
From: David McCann
2b. Re: Phone*ic notation: Geminates
From: Alex Fink
3a. CHAT: About the List
From: J. M. DeSantis
3b. Re: CHAT: About the List
From: Scott Hlad
3c. Re: CHAT: About the List
From: yuri
3d. Re: CHAT: About the List (RESOLVED?)
From: J. M. DeSantis
3e. Re: CHAT: About the List
From: Padraic Brown
4a. NATLANG: Hamer language anadewisms
From: Paul Bennett
4b. Re: NATLANG: Hamer language anadewisms
From: Peter Cyrus
4c. Re: NATLANG: Hamer language anadewisms
From: Paul Bennett
5a. Stranded w
From: Peter Collier
5b. Re: Stranded w
From: Peter Collier
5c. Re: Stranded w
From: Patrick Dunn
5d. Re: Stranded w
From: Padraic Brown
5e. Re: Stranded w
From: Sasha Fleischman
6a. Re: Siye Babel Text
From: Anthony Miles
7a. Re: A Random Thought: Anglo-Romance Conlang
From: Anthony Miles
8. Siye: Some Example Sentences
From: Anthony Miles
9a. Another nice word list
From: Gary Shannon
9b. Re: Another nice word list
From: MorphemeAddict
Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. Re: from Roger
Posted by: "Carsten Becker" [email protected]
Date: Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:57 am ((PST))
What the others said. All the best to Roger!
Carsten
Messages in this topic (11)
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1b. Re: from Roger
Posted by: "Matthew Turnbull" [email protected]
Date: Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:29 am ((PST))
same here, get well soon
On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 8:56 AM, Carsten Becker <[email protected]>wrote:
> What the others said. All the best to Roger!
>
> Carsten
>
Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________
1c. Re: from Roger
Posted by: "Jörg Rhiemeier" [email protected]
Date: Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:43 am ((PST))
Hallo conlangers!
Best wishes from me too. Get well soon.
--
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
"Bêsel asa Êm, a Êm atha cvanthal a cvanth atha Êmel." - SiM 1:1
Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________
1d. Re: from Roger
Posted by: "Larry Sulky" [email protected]
Date: Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:52 pm ((PST))
I'm glad to hear that Roger is receiving hospital care. Pneumonia is a
serious illness, not something to be "toughed out".
---larry
Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
2a. Re: Phone*ic notation: Geminates
Posted by: "David McCann" [email protected]
Date: Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:44 am ((PST))
On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 21:12:57 +0000
Sam Stutter <[email protected]> wrote:
> Technically, anything with a high sonority can have differentiations
> in length, compare slap and ssssssslap :) You "can't" have long
> stops. Because they're stops.
If a language allows long stops initially, then the option of
considering them to be geminates hardly applies; especially if that
language doesn't have initial clusters.
LuGanda: téËká 'to put', tËéËká 'law, rule'
Pattani Malay : katoÊ 'to strike', kËatoÊ 'frog'
Messages in this topic (17)
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2b. Re: Phone*ic notation: Geminates
Posted by: "Alex Fink" [email protected]
Date: Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:08 pm ((PST))
On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 21:12:16 -0800, Padraic Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
>--- On Sat, 2/25/12, Garth Wallace <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Yes, and you can do that for a short time or a longer time.
>
>Right. Note that it's not the *stop* itself that is being extended for a
>space of time, but the silence that follows the stop. For example, if I
>say the word "PRAT" right now and then go to bed without saying another
>word until tomorrow morning, that doesn't mean that the final "T" of
>"prat" has been going on for some seven or eight hours until I sit up and
>say "TLE"!
Well, the stop articulation, in the case of [t] the tongue being forced up
against the alveolar ridge, is continued in languages that have (phonemic)
long stops. If you did go around with your tongue shoved up there for those
eight hours, then I'd agree it was an eight-hour stop; otherwise, not.
[...]
>All a matter of perspective. Mine is simply that when the air stream ceases
>there are no continuant sounds being produced. A stop by definition is not
>a continuant and therefore can not be lengthened. Dragging out this pause
>is not comparable to dragging out an extended vowel or syllabic. YMMV.
But a particular language's phonology *has* a perspective on this question!
If what you would call stops vs. stops with a longer pause alternate under
exactly the same morphological (/ etc.) conditions as short continuants vs.
long continuants do, say, then that phonology (assuming no further
complications) has phonemically long stops.
Alex
Messages in this topic (17)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
3a. CHAT: About the List
Posted by: "J. M. DeSantis" [email protected]
Date: Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:51 am ((PST))
Conlang List,
I sent out a message as OT (off-topic) a few days ago and it said the
message was approved. It was basically asking for votes for an art
competition I entered. It said the message was approved, but I never saw
it in my in-box, nor the message I sent in response to Roger Mills's
condition. I used to always get my messages in my in-box as well as
everyone else's, but now that's stopped. Did I violate some code, and
now I've been banned?
--
Sincerely,
J. M. DeSantis
Writer - Illustrator
Website: jmdesantis.com <http://www.jmdesantis.com>
Figmunds: figmunds.com <http://www.figmunds.com>
Game-Flush (A Humorous Video Game Site): game-flush.com
<http://www.game-flush.com>
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
3b. Re: CHAT: About the List
Posted by: "Scott Hlad" [email protected]
Date: Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:50 am ((PST))
This message came through without incident.
-----Original Message-----
From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of J. M. DeSantis
Sent: February 26, 2012 10:51 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: CHAT: About the List
Conlang List,
I sent out a message as OT (off-topic) a few days ago and it said the
message was approved. It was basically asking for votes for an art
competition I entered. It said the message was approved, but I never saw
it in my in-box, nor the message I sent in response to Roger Mills's
condition. I used to always get my messages in my in-box as well as
everyone else's, but now that's stopped. Did I violate some code, and
now I've been banned?
--
Sincerely,
J. M. DeSantis
Writer - Illustrator
Website: jmdesantis.com <http://www.jmdesantis.com>
Figmunds: figmunds.com <http://www.figmunds.com>
Game-Flush (A Humorous Video Game Site): game-flush.com
<http://www.game-flush.com>
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
3c. Re: CHAT: About the List
Posted by: "yuri" [email protected]
Date: Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:00 am ((PST))
On 27 February 2012 06:50, J. M. DeSantis wrote:
> Did I violate some code, and now I've been banned?
As far as I'm aware there's no automated banning script running on the
list server. Banning someone is a manual process by the list admin.
I believe the admins on this list would give ample warning before banning.
In other words, if you were banned you'd know - you wouldn't have to guess.
Yuri
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
3d. Re: CHAT: About the List (RESOLVED?)
Posted by: "J. M. DeSantis" [email protected]
Date: Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:41 am ((PST))
Well, thank you both for the reply. Yeah, this message came through for
me too. I just wonder what happened to the other two...
--
Sincerely,
J. M. DeSantis
Writer - Illustrator
Website: jmdesantis.com <http://www.jmdesantis.com>
Figmunds: figmunds.com <http://www.figmunds.com>
Game-Flush (A Humorous Video Game Site): game-flush.com
<http://www.game-flush.com>
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
3e. Re: CHAT: About the List
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" [email protected]
Date: Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:05 pm ((PST))
--- On Sun, 2/26/12, J. M. DeSantis <[email protected]> wrote:
> I sent out a message as OT (off-topic) a few days ago and it
> said the message was approved. It was basically asking for
> votes for an art competition I entered.
Message did not arrive here, though some others seem to have gotten it.
> J. M. DeSantis
Padraic
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
4a. NATLANG: Hamer language anadewisms
Posted by: "Paul Bennett" [email protected]
Date: Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:40 am ((PST))
This is purely natlangery, but I automatically filed it in my head under
"you can't *make* this stuff up", so I thought I'd share it as an anadew
collection for posterity.
As posted previously, I'll probably be doing a charity trip to Ethiopia
this November. As a bit of a linguist, I figured it would behoove me to
get familiar with the relevant languages (of which there are between 75
and 100 known in the country). I managed to figure out from the Internet
that the main national languages would be Amharic and Oromo, and the local
language would be part of the Omotic family, which is a branch of
Afro-Asiatic, along with Cushitic (containing Oromo) and Semitic
(containing Amharic).
Along with a copy of Routledge's "Colloquial Amharic", I managed to track
down a copy of Bender[1], which appears to be the only available
collection of its kind dealing with the subject matter.
Two things turn out:
1. The local language the region I'll be going to is Hamer
2. Bender devotes a whole chapter to Hamer
Huzzah! I only bought the book for an intro to Oromo, and it turns out to
be double-useful. I love it when that happens.
In reading the chapter on Hamer, however, I began to get thoroughly
astounded by its phonology and morphophonology. Please follow along as I
describe some of the highlights.
*** CONSONANTS ***
The consonants are pretty unremarkable. All the following can occur, with
phonemic gemination non-initially, and (for stops) phonemic lack of
release finally.
b d J\ g
p t c k ?
q'
b_< d_< g_<
z
f s S x h
ts
4
l
m n J N
w j
*** VOWELS ***
The vowels are rather more interesting. There are four categories of
vowels.
Categories I, II, and III are each variants on the simple five-vowel
triangle, with phonemic length:
i u
e o
a
Category I is glotallized / ATR, and associated with epenthetic /?/
Category II is laryngealized / RTR, and associated with epenthetic /h/
Category III are called "umlauts" and are unmarked for either ATR or RTR
Category IV seems to consist of /E/, /O/, /i;/, and /a;/, where /;/ means
"between long and short", all unmarked for ATR or RTR
Vowel harmony is present -- all roots and affixes are either Category I or
II.
Umlauting occurs when a disharmonic affix is applied to a root. However
(and this I think is rather neat), some affixes appear to be "strong"
(causing the vowels in the root to umlaut), and some appear to be "weak"
(taking umlaut themselves, and leaving the root unchanged).
I haven't yet been able to glean the exact circumstances under which
Category IV vowels occur, but they seem to be the result of certain
mergers during harmonic liaison. Diphthongs also occur in harmonic liaison.
*** SYLLABLES ***
Nothing too amazing: (C)V(R)(C) seems to be the pattern. However, there is
a long list of rules covering epenthesis, metathesis, and consonant
harmonization to be taken into account when a root meets an affix and
consonants collide, especially if it would cause an illegal CCC cluster.
*** STRESS ***
Stress marks grammatical categories. Nouns are stressed on the final
syllable of their root. Verbs are stressed on their initial syllable.
*** PITCH ***
Pitch is used to mark the realis / irrealis. Affirmative and negative
statements, and yes/no questions are all lexically identical, even with
the same word order. Level pitch is used to signal affirmative statements,
rising pitch on the word being asked about is used to signal yes/no
questions, and falling pitch on the word being denied is used to form
negative statements.
This is just the tip of the iceberg. I have yet to even start to look at
the grammar or lexicon.
*** IN SUMMARY ***
So, the next time someone asks for some whacky (morpho)phonemics, please
feel free to point them here. I have the book, and will answer further
questions as best I can.
Thanks for indulging me during this semi-topical rambling.
[1] Bender, M Lionel - The Non-Semitic Languages of Ethiopia (Michigan
State University, 1976)
--
Paul
Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
4b. Re: NATLANG: Hamer language anadewisms
Posted by: "Peter Cyrus" [email protected]
Date: Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:32 am ((PST))
Just to clarify, stops occur both with and without release at the end of
words (presumably not to include the ejective, implosive or glottal stops)?
The pitch is a tone on the stressed syllable?
On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 8:39 PM, Paul Bennett <[email protected]>wrote:
> This is purely natlangery, but I automatically filed it in my head under
> "you can't *make* this stuff up", so I thought I'd share it as an anadew
> collection for posterity.
>
> As posted previously, I'll probably be doing a charity trip to Ethiopia
> this November. As a bit of a linguist, I figured it would behoove me to get
> familiar with the relevant languages (of which there are between 75 and 100
> known in the country). I managed to figure out from the Internet that the
> main national languages would be Amharic and Oromo, and the local language
> would be part of the Omotic family, which is a branch of Afro-Asiatic,
> along with Cushitic (containing Oromo) and Semitic (containing Amharic).
>
> Along with a copy of Routledge's "Colloquial Amharic", I managed to track
> down a copy of Bender[1], which appears to be the only available collection
> of its kind dealing with the subject matter.
>
> Two things turn out:
>
> 1. The local language the region I'll be going to is Hamer
>
> 2. Bender devotes a whole chapter to Hamer
>
> Huzzah! I only bought the book for an intro to Oromo, and it turns out to
> be double-useful. I love it when that happens.
>
> In reading the chapter on Hamer, however, I began to get thoroughly
> astounded by its phonology and morphophonology. Please follow along as I
> describe some of the highlights.
>
> *** CONSONANTS ***
>
> The consonants are pretty unremarkable. All the following can occur, with
> phonemic gemination non-initially, and (for stops) phonemic lack of release
> finally.
>
> b d J\ g
> p t c k ?
> q'
> b_< d_< g_<
> z
> f s S x h
> ts
> 4
> l
> m n J N
> w j
>
> *** VOWELS ***
>
> The vowels are rather more interesting. There are four categories of
> vowels.
>
> Categories I, II, and III are each variants on the simple five-vowel
> triangle, with phonemic length:
>
> i u
> e o
> a
>
> Category I is glotallized / ATR, and associated with epenthetic /?/
> Category II is laryngealized / RTR, and associated with epenthetic /h/
> Category III are called "umlauts" and are unmarked for either ATR or RTR
>
> Category IV seems to consist of /E/, /O/, /i;/, and /a;/, where /;/ means
> "between long and short", all unmarked for ATR or RTR
>
> Vowel harmony is present -- all roots and affixes are either Category I or
> II.
>
> Umlauting occurs when a disharmonic affix is applied to a root. However
> (and this I think is rather neat), some affixes appear to be "strong"
> (causing the vowels in the root to umlaut), and some appear to be "weak"
> (taking umlaut themselves, and leaving the root unchanged).
>
> I haven't yet been able to glean the exact circumstances under which
> Category IV vowels occur, but they seem to be the result of certain mergers
> during harmonic liaison. Diphthongs also occur in harmonic liaison.
>
> *** SYLLABLES ***
>
> Nothing too amazing: (C)V(R)(C) seems to be the pattern. However, there is
> a long list of rules covering epenthesis, metathesis, and consonant
> harmonization to be taken into account when a root meets an affix and
> consonants collide, especially if it would cause an illegal CCC cluster.
>
> *** STRESS ***
>
> Stress marks grammatical categories. Nouns are stressed on the final
> syllable of their root. Verbs are stressed on their initial syllable.
>
> *** PITCH ***
>
> Pitch is used to mark the realis / irrealis. Affirmative and negative
> statements, and yes/no questions are all lexically identical, even with the
> same word order. Level pitch is used to signal affirmative statements,
> rising pitch on the word being asked about is used to signal yes/no
> questions, and falling pitch on the word being denied is used to form
> negative statements.
>
> This is just the tip of the iceberg. I have yet to even start to look at
> the grammar or lexicon.
>
> *** IN SUMMARY ***
>
> So, the next time someone asks for some whacky (morpho)phonemics, please
> feel free to point them here. I have the book, and will answer further
> questions as best I can.
>
> Thanks for indulging me during this semi-topical rambling.
>
>
> [1] Bender, M Lionel - The Non-Semitic Languages of Ethiopia (Michigan
> State University, 1976)
>
>
> --
> Paul
>
Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
4c. Re: NATLANG: Hamer language anadewisms
Posted by: "Paul Bennett" [email protected]
Date: Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:59 am ((PST))
> On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 8:39 PM, Paul Bennett
> <[email protected]>wrote:
>
>> This is purely natlangery, but I automatically filed it in my head under
>> "you can't *make* this stuff up", so I thought I'd share it as an anadew
>> collection for posterity.
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 07:31:53 -0500, Peter Cyrus <[email protected]> wrote:
> Just to clarify, stops occur both with and without release at the end of
> words (presumably not to include the ejective, implosive or glottal
> stops)?
Yes, I meant pulmonic stops. Good catch. At least, I assume I meant
pulmonic stops. The text doesn't actually exclude non-pulmonics, as far as
I have read. However, articulatorily, it would be a neat trick indeed to
manage it for the non-pulmonics. I've tried various ways over the last few
minutes, and failed quite badly, though I think /?/ might be possible if
you try hard. I'd better stop trying, though, as my wife'll start thinking
I'm choking on something ;-)
> The pitch is a tone on the stressed syllable?
Apparently not. The text describes a pitch change over the whole word (or
maybe the whole root, the wording is not entirely clear), and then goes on
to state that tone also exists, but its purpose / meaning have yet to be
adequately understood.
--
Paul
Messages in this topic (3)
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________________________________________________________________________
5a. Stranded w
Posted by: "Peter Collier" [email protected]
Date: Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:36 pm ((PST))
A quick straw poll:
I have a RomLang where some elision of final vowels could leave me with word
final /kw/. This is a phonotactic no-no, but I can't decide which way to go
with that stranded /w/. I could vocalise it to /U/, or I could just drop it
and leave the bare /k/.
Whither?
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
5b. Re: Stranded w
Posted by: "Peter Collier" [email protected]
Date: Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:40 pm ((PST))
Will potentially apply to final /gw/ too.
P.
-----Original Message-----
From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Peter Collier
Sent: 27 February 2012 00:35
To: [email protected]
Subject: Stranded w
A quick straw poll:
I have a RomLang where some elision of final vowels could leave me with word
final /kw/. This is a phonotactic no-no, but I can't decide which way to go
with that stranded /w/. I could vocalise it to /U/, or I could just drop it
and leave the bare /k/.
Whither?
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
5c. Re: Stranded w
Posted by: "Patrick Dunn" [email protected]
Date: Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:08 pm ((PST))
It could labialize the stop making it /p/.
On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 6:35 PM, Peter Collier
<[email protected]>wrote:
> A quick straw poll:
>
>
>
> I have a RomLang where some elision of final vowels could leave me with
> word
> final /kw/. This is a phonotactic no-no, but I can't decide which way to
> go
> with that stranded /w/. I could vocalise it to /U/, or I could just drop it
> and leave the bare /k/.
>
>
>
> Whither?
>
>
>
--
Second Person, a chapbook of poetry by Patrick Dunn, is now available for
order from Finishing Line
Press<http://www.finishinglinepress.com/NewReleasesandForthcomingTitles.htm>
and
Amazon<http://www.amazon.com/Second-Person-Patrick-Dunn/dp/1599249065/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1324342341&sr=8-2>.
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
5d. Re: Stranded w
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" [email protected]
Date: Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:42 pm ((PST))
You could also go the French route and end up with [k]: presque; or let it
disappear altogether: eau.
Is there a problem with final Q, as in "il'aq"?
Alternatively, you could pass through K and then let that aspirate:
"il'ach". And then perhaps disappear if you like, letting the A lengthen:
"il'â".
But I do also have to ask: what's the problem with word final [kw]? Have
you already determined the nonoitude of this combination for this language?
How about making the K disappear? aqua > ahwe > il'aw; illa hora qua > il
heore hwe > ileorew; antiqua > antihwe > untieu. (Accented A remains,
unaccented A weakens, in this dialect.)
Padraic
--- On Sun, 2/26/12, Patrick Dunn <[email protected]> wrote:
> From: Patrick Dunn <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [CONLANG] Stranded w
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Sunday, February 26, 2012, 8:08 PM
> It could labialize the stop making it
> /p/.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 6:35 PM, Peter Collier
> <[email protected]>wrote:
>
> > A quick straw poll:
> >
> >
> >
> > I have a RomLang where some elision of final vowels
> could leave me with
> > word
> > final /kw/. This is a phonotactic no-no, but I
> can't decide which way to
> > go
> > with that stranded /w/. I could vocalise it to /U/, or
> I could just drop it
> > and leave the bare /k/.
> >
> >
> >
> > Whither?
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Second Person, a chapbook of poetry by Patrick Dunn, is now
> available for
> order from Finishing Line
> Press<http://www.finishinglinepress.com/NewReleasesandForthcomingTitles.htm>
> and
> Amazon<http://www.amazon.com/Second-Person-Patrick-Dunn/dp/1599249065/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1324342341&sr=8-2>.
>
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
5e. Re: Stranded w
Posted by: "Sasha Fleischman" [email protected]
Date: Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:51 pm ((PST))
You could have the two switch places to get [wk].
On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 17:42, Padraic Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
> You could also go the French route and end up with [k]: presque; or let it
> disappear altogether: eau.
>
> Is there a problem with final Q, as in "il'aq"?
>
> Alternatively, you could pass through K and then let that aspirate:
> "il'ach". And then perhaps disappear if you like, letting the A lengthen:
> "il'â".
>
> But I do also have to ask: what's the problem with word final [kw]? Have
> you already determined the nonoitude of this combination for this language?
>
> How about making the K disappear? aqua > ahwe > il'aw; illa hora qua > il
> heore hwe > ileorew; antiqua > antihwe > untieu. (Accented A remains,
> unaccented A weakens, in this dialect.)
>
> Padraic
>
> --- On Sun, 2/26/12, Patrick Dunn <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> From: Patrick Dunn <[email protected]>
>> Subject: Re: [CONLANG] Stranded w
>> To: [email protected]
>> Date: Sunday, February 26, 2012, 8:08 PM
>> It could labialize the stop making it
>> /p/.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 6:35 PM, Peter Collier
>> <[email protected]>wrote:
>>
>> > A quick straw poll:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I have a RomLang where some elision of final vowels
>> could leave me with
>> > word
>> > final /kw/. This is a phonotactic no-no, but I
>> can't decide which way to
>> > go
>> > with that stranded /w/. I could vocalise it to /U/, or
>> I could just drop it
>> > and leave the bare /k/.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Whither?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Second Person, a chapbook of poetry by Patrick Dunn, is now
>> available for
>> order from Finishing Line
>> Press<http://www.finishinglinepress.com/NewReleasesandForthcomingTitles.htm>
>> and
>> Amazon<http://www.amazon.com/Second-Person-Patrick-Dunn/dp/1599249065/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1324342341&sr=8-2>.
>>
--
Sasha Fleischman
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
6a. Re: Siye Babel Text
Posted by: "Anthony Miles" [email protected]
Date: Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:34 pm ((PST))
On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 20:03:03 -0700, Logan Kearsley
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 22 February 2012 22:54, Anthony Miles
<[email protected]> wrote:
>> I'm also not sure I have discovered the entire case and
>> postposition system. I seek advice willingly.
>
>This comment intrigues me. Could you discourse some more on
your
>method of language creation / discovery?
>
>-l.
I've tried many over the years, but I've discovered this: any
conlang I make is dead unless I have a text to work on. Unlike
some, I cannot work in a vacuum, and I value input from the list.
I also find that in the early stages my conlangs have bits that
need to be trimmed or expanded.
Messages in this topic (12)
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7a. Re: A Random Thought: Anglo-Romance Conlang
Posted by: "Anthony Miles" [email protected]
Date: Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:41 pm ((PST))
Can you provide some provisional sentences? Si vi donus kelkajn
ekzemplojn al ni, ni helpis vin.
On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 09:46:18 -0800, Gary Shannon
<[email protected]> wrote:
>It was a dark and stormy night when a strange confluence of
events
>lead to .... OK, It was just a rainy afternoon, but I happened to
be
>listening to a Spanish language radio station on the Internet,
>brushing up my listening skills when I heard a sentence that
consisted
>almost entirely of English-Spanish cognates. I pretty sure any
English
>speaker would have been able to make out the meaning even
with no
>Spanish training.
>
>That even reminded me of Jeringonza, which I first learned
about just
>a few weeks ago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeringonza
>
>This is a language game in Spanish, similar to Pig Latin or Ubbi
Dubbi
>in English.
>
>That reminded me of my very first conlang back in the early 50's.
>Having just watched a Three Stooges movie were first heard of Pig
>Latin, I decided to go it one better and invented Igpaya
Ussianruski
>(Pig Russian) which instead of the one word ending syllable of Pig
>Latin (-aya), I used several different endings depending on the
>initial letter. (Or maybe it was based on part of speech. I honestly
>don't remember since it was about 60 years ago.)
>
>The final event in the confluence was listening to a podcast about
>English-Spanish cognates this morning. That's when it hit me: An
idea
>for a peculiar conlang. The grammar is distinctly non-English, with
>case endings and verb conjugations, noun genders, and
differences in
>word order, but the vocabulary consist entirely of words cognate to
>English, but altered just enough to fit the orthography and
>inflectional requirements of the conlang. (Along the lines of
>"reality" vs "realidad").
>
>The goal is a language with a strong resemblance to the
Romance
>family, while being distinctly different from any specific Romance
>language, and a strong lexical similarity to English, while also
being
>utterly alien to English grammar. Different, strange-sounding, yet,
>since every word is a cognate, with an odd sort of familiarity to it.
>My thought was to outline the grammar and then lay out the
rules for
>changing an English word into the proper form. The result would
be
>almost an "instant" conlang, far more distinct and interesting
than
>Pig Latin, but not nearly as elaborate or difficult to learn (or
>create) as a real conlang. On a continuum between Latin and Pig
Latin
>I'd put it a kilometer east of Latin and a few hundred meters
west of
>Pig Latin. Sort of part way between real language and a naive
language
>game.
>
>Anyway, that's my random, pointless thought of the day.
>
>--gary
Messages in this topic (2)
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8. Siye: Some Example Sentences
Posted by: "Anthony Miles" [email protected]
Date: Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:46 pm ((PST))
pitakeya le kehosupene.
The animal hurt me.
pitake-ya le-0 ke-osu-pe-ne
animal-ERG 1-ACC VB-hurt-SG-PST
le pitake kehosune.
I hurt the animal.
le-0 pitake-0 ke-osu-pe-ne
1-NOM animal-ABS VB-hurt-SG-PST
pitake kesutututupene.
The animal runs.
pitake-0 ke-sutututu-pe-ne.
animal-ABS VB-run-SG-PST
um kesutuapene.
The man arrived.
um-0 ke-sutua-pe-ne
man-ABS VB-arrive-SG-PST
umhe pitake kenukupene.
The man killed the animal.
um-e pitake-0 ke-nuku-pe-ne
man-ERG animal-ABS VB-kill-SG-PST
um pitakeya kenukupene.
The animal killed the man.
um-0 pitake-ya ke-nuku-pe-ne
man-ABS animal-ERG VB-kill-SG-PST
umkeke laye kesayeipene.
The girl cried.
umkeke laye-0 ke-sayei-pe-ne
child female-ABS VB-cry-SG-PST
pitakeya umkeke laye kekoyempene.
The animal saw the girl.
pitake-ya umkeke laye-0 ke-koyem-pe-ne
animal-ERG child female-ABS VB-see-SG-PST
Atam pitake leme kehosupene.
Adam hurt the animal.
Atam-0 pitake le-me-0 ke-osu-pe-ne
Adam-NOM animal 1-GEN-ABS VB-hurt-SG-PST
atame pitake leme kehosupene.
The humanoid hurt the animal.
atam-e pitake le-me-0 ke-osu-pe-ne
humanoid-ERG animal 1-GEN-ABS VB-hurt-SG-PST
"Humanoid" in this case refers to any "rubber forehead alien" in
the Polycosm. The word for "man" in the sense of Siye-speaking
humanoids is "um"
Atam kesutupene.
Adam went/came. The humanoid went/came.
Atam-0 ke-sutu-pe-ne
Adam-NOM VB-go/come-SG-PST
humoid-ABS VB-go/come-SG-PST
pitake leme kesutupene.
My animal went/came.
pitake le-me-0 ke-sutu-pe-ne
animal 1-GEN-ABS VB-go/come-SG-PST
le Atamha kehosupene.
I hurt Adam.
le-0 Atam-a ke-sutu-pe-ne
le-NOM Adam-ACC VB-go/come-SG-PST
le atam kehosupene.
I hurt the humanoid.
le-0 atam-0 ke-osu-pe-ne
1-NOM humanoid-ABS VB-hurt-SG-PST
Atam lea kehosupene.
Adam hurt me.
Atam-0 le-a ke-osu-pe-ne
Adam-NOM 1-ACC VB-hurt-SG-PST
atamhe lea kehosupene.
The humanoid hurt me.
atam-e le-a ke-osu-pe-ne
humanoid-ERG 1-ACC VB-hurt-SG-PST
Messages in this topic (1)
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9a. Another nice word list
Posted by: "Gary Shannon" [email protected]
Date: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:04 am ((PST))
I have a thing for word lists. This is a nice one for reference: the
1510 words used of Voice of America (VOA Controlled English)
http://www.manythings.org/voa/words.htm
And another list developed by Spotlight Radio for English language
religious broadcasting overseas. Their list has 1500 words and is very
similar to, but not identical with VOAs list:
http://www.spotlightradio.net/wordlist/
Either one would make a good starting point for the English side of an
English-Conlang dictionary.
--gary
Messages in this topic (2)
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9b. Re: Another nice word list
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" [email protected]
Date: Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:41 am ((PST))
I prefer the VOA list. Some of the words there have more than one meaning,
so slightly more than 1510 concepts are represented.
stevo
On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 3:03 AM, Gary Shannon <[email protected]> wrote:
> I have a thing for word lists. This is a nice one for reference: the
> 1510 words used of Voice of America (VOA Controlled English)
>
> http://www.manythings.org/voa/words.htm
>
> And another list developed by Spotlight Radio for English language
> religious broadcasting overseas. Their list has 1500 words and is very
> similar to, but not identical with VOAs list:
>
> http://www.spotlightradio.net/wordlist/
>
> Either one would make a good starting point for the English side of an
> English-Conlang dictionary.
>
> --gary
>
Messages in this topic (2)
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