There are 13 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Languages with voiced-unvoiced consonant clusters
From: Miles Forster
1b. Re: Languages with voiced-unvoiced consonant clusters
From: Padraic Brown
1c. Re: Languages with voiced-unvoiced consonant clusters
From: MorphemeAddict
1d. Re: Languages with voiced-unvoiced consonant clusters
From: Padraic Brown
1e. Re: Languages with voiced-unvoiced consonant clusters
From: MorphemeAddict
1f. Re: Languages with voiced-unvoiced consonant clusters
From: Matthew Boutilier
2a. R2D2 language
From: MorphemeAddict
2b. Re: R2D2 language
From: Gary Shannon
2c. Re: R2D2 language
From: George Corley
2d. Re: R2D2 language
From: MorphemeAddict
2e. Re: R2D2 language
From: Jörg Rhiemeier
3a. META: Conlang-L FAQ
From: Henrik Theiling
4a. Re: Romániço
From: Padraic Brown
Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. Languages with voiced-unvoiced consonant clusters
Posted by: "Miles Forster" [email protected]
Date: Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:07 am ((PDT))
Hello,
are there any languages that don't make use of devoicing/voicing in
consonant clusters? That is, are there languages in which a consonant
cluster such as [sb] or [pz] is found and where these are distinguished
from the assimilated versions [sp]/[zb] and [bz]/[ps]?
--
.i da xamgu ganse fi no na'ebo lo risna
.i lo vajrai cu nonselji'u lo kanla
Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
1b. Re: Languages with voiced-unvoiced consonant clusters
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" [email protected]
Date: Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:47 pm ((PDT))
--- On Sat, 3/31/12, Miles Forster <[email protected]> wrote:
> are there any languages that don't make use of
> devoicing/voicing in consonant clusters? That is, are there
> languages in which a consonant cluster such as [sb] or [pz]
> is found and where these are distinguished from the
> assimilated versions [sp]/[zb] and [bz]/[ps]?
Anian would be the best bet for such a thing among my languages, but it seems
to studiously avoid VL+V consonant clusters (I'm not counting things
like K + L, because L and R (well, and other continuants) are typically
syllabic and so don't really form "consonant" clusters). For that matter,
it shares with other languages of the Eastlands a marked preference for
VL consonants. D is common enough, but B is rare and I don't think I have
a G in the lexicon. Has some Vs and perhaps one Z that I can find.
Anian is otherwise rather fearless as far as consonant clusters are
concerned. Some represent actual vowelless syllables: F is the most common
of the "consonants" that form syllabic segments: F-TANUM (trisyllabic)
would be distinct from FTANUM (disyllabic). M, N, L & R commonly form
syllabic segments, either alone or in combination with one or more other
consonants. Others represent coarticulated stops or a sort of rapid fire
serial articulation of two or more stops. So, clusters like PKRINIO is
actually [p] and [k] said at the same time; but PTKRRTUM is [p-t-k]
enunciated separately but in very rapid succession with no intervening
vowel or other flow of air.
Padraic
Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
1c. Re: Languages with voiced-unvoiced consonant clusters
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" [email protected]
Date: Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:34 pm ((PDT))
Arabic is rather fearless about juxtaposing different consonants. Does
assimilation occur?
stevo
On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 4:47 PM, Padraic Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
> --- On Sat, 3/31/12, Miles Forster <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > are there any languages that don't make use of
> > devoicing/voicing in consonant clusters? That is, are there
> > languages in which a consonant cluster such as [sb] or [pz]
> > is found and where these are distinguished from the
> > assimilated versions [sp]/[zb] and [bz]/[ps]?
>
> Anian would be the best bet for such a thing among my languages, but it
> seems to studiously avoid VL+V consonant clusters (I'm not counting things
> like K + L, because L and R (well, and other continuants) are typically
> syllabic and so don't really form "consonant" clusters). For that matter,
> it shares with other languages of the Eastlands a marked preference for
> VL consonants. D is common enough, but B is rare and I don't think I have
> a G in the lexicon. Has some Vs and perhaps one Z that I can find.
>
> Anian is otherwise rather fearless as far as consonant clusters are
> concerned. Some represent actual vowelless syllables: F is the most common
> of the "consonants" that form syllabic segments: F-TANUM (trisyllabic)
> would be distinct from FTANUM (disyllabic). M, N, L & R commonly form
> syllabic segments, either alone or in combination with one or more other
> consonants. Others represent coarticulated stops or a sort of rapid fire
> serial articulation of two or more stops. So, clusters like PKRINIO is
> actually [p] and [k] said at the same time; but PTKRRTUM is [p-t-k]
> enunciated separately but in very rapid succession with no intervening
> vowel or other flow of air.
>
> Padraic
>
Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
1d. Re: Languages with voiced-unvoiced consonant clusters
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" [email protected]
Date: Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:14 pm ((PDT))
--- On Sat, 3/31/12, MorphemeAddict <[email protected]> wrote:
> Arabic is rather fearless about juxtaposing different consonants. Does
> assimilation occur?
In Anian? No -- but I dó think that all the horrible clusters must be the
result of some kind of weird vowel loss back during the Old Oritanian
period. I don't know a whole lot about the language as of yet, so it is
possible that assimilations occur. I just don't know where or how or why
yet.
Of the daughter languages, some undergo considerable cluster simplification
while one or two retain a high level of complexity. For example, Anian
"tcani" (rune or wise saying) becomes "cânis" in Hoosickite; "ctlapmi"
(leg) becomes "clamen". Pendarvian is said to retain the clusters. Hecklan,
if it turns out to be a relative of Anian at all, has certainly altered
some Anian words: Anian "hhtcrmîr" (city) becomes "cramion" in Hecklan.
The history of Anian, which was the native language of Oriata, one of the
Archaic Empires of the Eastlands, has a history going back some 10 to 15
thousand years. As a language of philosophical scripture, it has been quite
resistant to change, and since the destruction of Oriata and the other
ancient empires in the region, it has long since ceased to be a spoken or
living language. In this respect, it is much like Sussian, another
philosophical language of the area, though perhaps not quite so old.
Very few records of Old Oritanian are extant -- just some fragments of
monumental inscription -- and the syllabary used is not the same as that
of the later language. One fairly certain O.Or. word is HE-TUGQILLIMIILUN,
meaning "within the City". If that's the ancestor of "hhtcrmîr", then
quite a lot of vowel loss and other changes have happened within the
language!
Padraic
>
> stevo
>
> On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 4:47 PM, Padraic Brown <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > --- On Sat, 3/31/12, Miles Forster <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > are there any languages that don't make use of
> > > devoicing/voicing in consonant clusters? That is,
> are there
> > > languages in which a consonant cluster such as
> [sb] or [pz]
> > > is found and where these are distinguished from
> the
> > > assimilated versions [sp]/[zb] and [bz]/[ps]?
> >
> > Anian would be the best bet for such a thing among my
> languages, but it
> > seems to studiously avoid VL+V consonant clusters (I'm
> not counting things
> > like K + L, because L and R (well, and other
> continuants) are typically
> > syllabic and so don't really form "consonant"
> clusters). For that matter,
> > it shares with other languages of the Eastlands a
> marked preference for
> > VL consonants. D is common enough, but B is rare and I
> don't think I have
> > a G in the lexicon. Has some Vs and perhaps one Z that
> I can find.
> >
> > Anian is otherwise rather fearless as far as consonant
> clusters are
> > concerned. Some represent actual vowelless syllables: F
> is the most common
> > of the "consonants" that form syllabic segments:
> F-TANUM (trisyllabic)
> > would be distinct from FTANUM (disyllabic). M, N, L
> & R commonly form
> > syllabic segments, either alone or in combination with
> one or more other
> > consonants. Others represent coarticulated stops or a
> sort of rapid fire
> > serial articulation of two or more stops. So, clusters
> like PKRINIO is
> > actually [p] and [k] said at the same time; but
> PTKRRTUM is [p-t-k]
> > enunciated separately but in very rapid succession with
> no intervening
> > vowel or other flow of air.
> >
> > Padraic
> >
>
Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
1e. Re: Languages with voiced-unvoiced consonant clusters
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" [email protected]
Date: Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:48 pm ((PDT))
I meant, does assimilation occur in Arabic when consonants of different
voicing are juxtaposed?
stevo
On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 10:14 PM, Padraic Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
> --- On Sat, 3/31/12, MorphemeAddict <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Arabic is rather fearless about juxtaposing different consonants. Does
> > assimilation occur?
>
> In Anian? No -- but I dó think that all the horrible clusters must be the
> result of some kind of weird vowel loss back during the Old Oritanian
> period. I don't know a whole lot about the language as of yet, so it is
> possible that assimilations occur. I just don't know where or how or why
> yet.
>
> Of the daughter languages, some undergo considerable cluster simplification
> while one or two retain a high level of complexity. For example, Anian
> "tcani" (rune or wise saying) becomes "cânis" in Hoosickite; "ctlapmi"
> (leg) becomes "clamen". Pendarvian is said to retain the clusters. Hecklan,
> if it turns out to be a relative of Anian at all, has certainly altered
> some Anian words: Anian "hhtcrmîr" (city) becomes "cramion" in Hecklan.
>
> The history of Anian, which was the native language of Oriata, one of the
> Archaic Empires of the Eastlands, has a history going back some 10 to 15
> thousand years. As a language of philosophical scripture, it has been quite
> resistant to change, and since the destruction of Oriata and the other
> ancient empires in the region, it has long since ceased to be a spoken or
> living language. In this respect, it is much like Sussian, another
> philosophical language of the area, though perhaps not quite so old.
>
> Very few records of Old Oritanian are extant -- just some fragments of
> monumental inscription -- and the syllabary used is not the same as that
> of the later language. One fairly certain O.Or. word is HE-TUGQILLIMIILUN,
> meaning "within the City". If that's the ancestor of "hhtcrmîr", then
> quite a lot of vowel loss and other changes have happened within the
> language!
>
> Padraic
>
> >
> > stevo
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 4:47 PM, Padraic Brown <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > --- On Sat, 3/31/12, Miles Forster <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > are there any languages that don't make use of
> > > > devoicing/voicing in consonant clusters? That is,
> > are there
> > > > languages in which a consonant cluster such as
> > [sb] or [pz]
> > > > is found and where these are distinguished from
> > the
> > > > assimilated versions [sp]/[zb] and [bz]/[ps]?
> > >
> > > Anian would be the best bet for such a thing among my
> > languages, but it
> > > seems to studiously avoid VL+V consonant clusters (I'm
> > not counting things
> > > like K + L, because L and R (well, and other
> > continuants) are typically
> > > syllabic and so don't really form "consonant"
> > clusters). For that matter,
> > > it shares with other languages of the Eastlands a
> > marked preference for
> > > VL consonants. D is common enough, but B is rare and I
> > don't think I have
> > > a G in the lexicon. Has some Vs and perhaps one Z that
> > I can find.
> > >
> > > Anian is otherwise rather fearless as far as consonant
> > clusters are
> > > concerned. Some represent actual vowelless syllables: F
> > is the most common
> > > of the "consonants" that form syllabic segments:
> > F-TANUM (trisyllabic)
> > > would be distinct from FTANUM (disyllabic). M, N, L
> > & R commonly form
> > > syllabic segments, either alone or in combination with
> > one or more other
> > > consonants. Others represent coarticulated stops or a
> > sort of rapid fire
> > > serial articulation of two or more stops. So, clusters
> > like PKRINIO is
> > > actually [p] and [k] said at the same time; but
> > PTKRRTUM is [p-t-k]
> > > enunciated separately but in very rapid succession with
> > no intervening
> > > vowel or other flow of air.
> > >
> > > Padraic
> > >
> >
>
Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
1f. Re: Languages with voiced-unvoiced consonant clusters
Posted by: "Matthew Boutilier" [email protected]
Date: Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:25 pm ((PDT))
>
> does assimilation occur in Arabic when consonants of different
> voicing are juxtaposed?
>
arabic does not have /p/, so, so much for that part of the question. this
is going to be a pretty non-technical answer, but after going through my
mental 'sound clips' i'm going to say that syllable final consonant
clusters (since the maximum syllable is CV(:)CC) do *not* have voicing
assimilation going on except for /r/, which has a voiceless allophone when
it follows voiceless consonants. thus
/badr/ "full moon" = [bædr], but
/fitˤr/ "breakfast" = [fɪtˤr̥]
contrast with, e.g., the voiced /Ê/ and voiceless /ħ/ pharyngeal
fricatives, which are well distinguished after voiced and voiceless cluster
onsets alike:
/rubÊ/ "one-fourth" = [ɾÊbÊ], but
/sˤubħ/ "morning" = [sˤÊbħ].
same goes for [zt] vs. [st], etc. i'm having difficulty coming up with
examples ending in /ts/ and /tz/.
matt
On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 9:47 PM, MorphemeAddict <[email protected]> wrote:
> I meant, does assimilation occur in Arabic when consonants of different
> voicing are juxtaposed?
>
> stevo
>
> On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 10:14 PM, Padraic Brown <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > --- On Sat, 3/31/12, MorphemeAddict <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Arabic is rather fearless about juxtaposing different consonants. Does
> > > assimilation occur?
> >
> > In Anian? No -- but I dó think that all the horrible clusters must be the
> > result of some kind of weird vowel loss back during the Old Oritanian
> > period. I don't know a whole lot about the language as of yet, so it is
> > possible that assimilations occur. I just don't know where or how or why
> > yet.
> >
> > Of the daughter languages, some undergo considerable cluster
> simplification
> > while one or two retain a high level of complexity. For example, Anian
> > "tcani" (rune or wise saying) becomes "cânis" in Hoosickite; "ctlapmi"
> > (leg) becomes "clamen". Pendarvian is said to retain the clusters.
> Hecklan,
> > if it turns out to be a relative of Anian at all, has certainly altered
> > some Anian words: Anian "hhtcrmîr" (city) becomes "cramion" in Hecklan.
> >
> > The history of Anian, which was the native language of Oriata, one of the
> > Archaic Empires of the Eastlands, has a history going back some 10 to 15
> > thousand years. As a language of philosophical scripture, it has been
> quite
> > resistant to change, and since the destruction of Oriata and the other
> > ancient empires in the region, it has long since ceased to be a spoken or
> > living language. In this respect, it is much like Sussian, another
> > philosophical language of the area, though perhaps not quite so old.
> >
> > Very few records of Old Oritanian are extant -- just some fragments of
> > monumental inscription -- and the syllabary used is not the same as that
> > of the later language. One fairly certain O.Or. word is
> HE-TUGQILLIMIILUN,
> > meaning "within the City". If that's the ancestor of "hhtcrmîr", then
> > quite a lot of vowel loss and other changes have happened within the
> > language!
> >
> > Padraic
> >
> > >
> > > stevo
> > >
> > > On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 4:47 PM, Padraic Brown <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > --- On Sat, 3/31/12, Miles Forster <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > are there any languages that don't make use of
> > > > > devoicing/voicing in consonant clusters? That is,
> > > are there
> > > > > languages in which a consonant cluster such as
> > > [sb] or [pz]
> > > > > is found and where these are distinguished from
> > > the
> > > > > assimilated versions [sp]/[zb] and [bz]/[ps]?
> > > >
> > > > Anian would be the best bet for such a thing among my
> > > languages, but it
> > > > seems to studiously avoid VL+V consonant clusters (I'm
> > > not counting things
> > > > like K + L, because L and R (well, and other
> > > continuants) are typically
> > > > syllabic and so don't really form "consonant"
> > > clusters). For that matter,
> > > > it shares with other languages of the Eastlands a
> > > marked preference for
> > > > VL consonants. D is common enough, but B is rare and I
> > > don't think I have
> > > > a G in the lexicon. Has some Vs and perhaps one Z that
> > > I can find.
> > > >
> > > > Anian is otherwise rather fearless as far as consonant
> > > clusters are
> > > > concerned. Some represent actual vowelless syllables: F
> > > is the most common
> > > > of the "consonants" that form syllabic segments:
> > > F-TANUM (trisyllabic)
> > > > would be distinct from FTANUM (disyllabic). M, N, L
> > > & R commonly form
> > > > syllabic segments, either alone or in combination with
> > > one or more other
> > > > consonants. Others represent coarticulated stops or a
> > > sort of rapid fire
> > > > serial articulation of two or more stops. So, clusters
> > > like PKRINIO is
> > > > actually [p] and [k] said at the same time; but
> > > PTKRRTUM is [p-t-k]
> > > > enunciated separately but in very rapid succession with
> > > no intervening
> > > > vowel or other flow of air.
> > > >
> > > > Padraic
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
2a. R2D2 language
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" [email protected]
Date: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:57 pm ((PDT))
Can anyone direct me to information about using the sounds and utterances
of R2D2 (the Star Wars droid) as the basis of a conlang?
stevo
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
2b. Re: R2D2 language
Posted by: "Gary Shannon" [email protected]
Date: Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:48 pm ((PDT))
You get all kinds of fascinating material by Googling "r2d2 language",
including several online translators like
http://www.r2d2translator.com/
--gary
On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 12:57 PM, MorphemeAddict <[email protected]> wrote:
> Can anyone direct me to information about using the sounds and utterances
> of R2D2 (the Star Wars droid) as the basis of a conlang?
>
> stevo
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
2c. Re: R2D2 language
Posted by: "George Corley" [email protected]
Date: Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:24 pm ((PDT))
It seems apparent that that site is just ad-hoc representing words with
sounds, using spaces to separate -- I typed in some Chinese and got a
fairly short sequence. In any case, the Droidspeak of the movies was
almost certainly just a small set of sound effects that were roughly
assigned to different emotional states. To make a language you'd probably
have to isolate each little beep and build a phonology from those.
On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 4:48 PM, Gary Shannon <[email protected]> wrote:
> You get all kinds of fascinating material by Googling "r2d2 language",
> including several online translators like
> http://www.r2d2translator.com/
>
> --gary
>
> On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 12:57 PM, MorphemeAddict <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > Can anyone direct me to information about using the sounds and utterances
> > of R2D2 (the Star Wars droid) as the basis of a conlang?
> >
> > stevo
>
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
2d. Re: R2D2 language
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" [email protected]
Date: Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:32 pm ((PDT))
I did exactly that right after my post.
Each letter (uppercase and lowercase), digit, and some punctuation marks
have their own sound sequence. The same site shows symbols for each sound
sequence, but they don't stay onscreen long enough to do anything with.
(Screen-save? That's a thought.) Reverse engineering it would be fun if I
had an ear for the sounds. Some sites claim that it's just English
converted to a binary form.
stevo
On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 4:48 PM, Gary Shannon <[email protected]> wrote:
> You get all kinds of fascinating material by Googling "r2d2 language",
> including several online translators like
> http://www.r2d2translator.com/
>
> --gary
>
> On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 12:57 PM, MorphemeAddict <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > Can anyone direct me to information about using the sounds and utterances
> > of R2D2 (the Star Wars droid) as the basis of a conlang?
> >
> > stevo
>
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
2e. Re: R2D2 language
Posted by: "Jörg Rhiemeier" [email protected]
Date: Sun Apr 1, 2012 6:41 am ((PDT))
Hallo conlangers!
On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:57:07 -0400 MorphemeAddict wrote:
> Can anyone direct me to information about using the sounds and utterances
> of R2D2 (the Star Wars droid) as the basis of a conlang?
According to Wikipedia, the sounds of R2-D2 were created by sound
designer Ben Burtt with an ARP 2600 analog synthesizer. But when
I listened to György Ligeti's 1958 electronic composition
_Artikulation_, I found some passages that sound very much like
R2-D2, so Burtt probably was inspired by that piece.
I don't know whether there is an actual conlang with lexicon and
grammar involved here; the sounds heard in the films are probably
just ad-hoc sounds.
--
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
"Bêsel asa Êm, a Êm atha cvanthal a cvanth atha Êmel." - SiM 1:1
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
3a. META: Conlang-L FAQ
Posted by: "Henrik Theiling" [email protected]
Date: Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:05 pm ((PDT))
The following is the de facto Conlang-L FAQ, hosted at:
http://wiki.frath.net/Conlang-L_FAQ
This is automatically posted once a month, copied directly from that page,
for the benefit of new members. If you would like to change it, please
edit it at the link above.
**Henrik
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It's also the ONLY place you can go to sign up and post things to the list.
A read-only archive with a nicer user interface is at
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Conlang-L is also _mirrored_ as a Yahoo group, but there is no way to have
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==Acronyms==
List of acronyms specific to the Conlang Mailing List:
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idiolect], depending on context)
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more general meaning]).
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* YAEPT (the original acronym) - Yet Another English Pronunciation Thread
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Acronyms not on this list might be in general usage: try
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==Other conlang-specific vocabulary==
>From [http://cassowary.free.fr/Linguistics/Conlang%20Dictionary/ here] and
[http://arthaey.mine.nu/~arthaey/conlang/faq.html here]. See also [[Conlang
terminology]].
con__
* constructed __ (generally a contraction): conlang, conworld, conhistory,
conculture, ...
__lang
* a language characterised by ___ (generally a contraction): conlang, artlang,
auxlang, ...
[[artlang]]
# A language constructed for the beauty or fun of doing so. [From art(istic) +
lang(uage)]
# (See conlang) [From art(ificial) + lang(uage)]
[[auxlang]]
* A language constructed to replace or complement natlangs to facilitate
cross-linguistic communication. [From aux(iliary) + lang(uage)]
concultural [From con(structed) + cultur(e) + al]
* Adjective form of "conculture".
[[conculture]] [From con(structed) + culture]
* A fictional culture created as a backdrop to a conlang. See also "conworld".
[[conlang]] [From con(structed) + lang(uage)]
# n. A constructed language
# v. To construct a language
[[CONLANG]] (all caps), conlang-l, Conlang-L, or CONLANG-L
* A very active conlang mailing list hosted by brown.edu, and currently
operated by Henrik Theiling
[[conworld]] [From con(structed) + world]
* A fictional world created to host a conlang or conculture. See also
"conculture".
[[engelang]] /ËendÊlæÅ/ [From eng(ineered) + lang(uage)]
* A conlang that is designed to certain criteria, such that it is objectively
testable whether the criteria are met or not. This is different from claiming
that the criteria themselves are 'objective'. For example, the Lojban/Loglan
roots are designed to be maximally recognisable to the speakers of the
(numerically) largest languages in the world in proportion to the number of
speakers. It is not a matter of taste whether this criterion is met; it is
something that can be tested. (by John Cowan) [From eng(ineered) + lang(uage)]
etabnannery /raËmnænÉɹi/ (rare)
* The state of appearing entirely unpredictable, but, upon closer analysis,
failing at even being that. [From EtáÌbnann(i), a conlang by Tristan McLeay,
which was supposed to have an unpredictable orthography, but ended up just
having a confusing one. Damn people trying to make patterns everywhere. At
least it's a bugger to typeset!... errm... back to the derivation + -ery]
maggelity /mÉ"gÉËlIti/ (rare) [From Maggel, a conlang by Christophe
Grandsire which has a rarely predictable orthography]
# The state of being entirely unpredictable. (Tristan McLeay)
# The state of being regularly unpredictable, such as to horribly confuse
anyone unfamiliar with the language, lulling them into a full sense of
security before pointing out, cartoon-character-style, that the ground no
longer exists where they're standing. (Tristan McLeay and H. S. Teoh)
Maggel's Paradox (rare)
* Your radical ideas have already occurred to others. (Muke Tever)
[[natlang]] [From nat(ural) + lang(uage)]
# A natural language, i.e., one that naturally developed in the world, as
opposed to a conlang.
ObConlang (or ObCL)
* Just before something about conlanging in an otherwise off-topic post.
* From ob(ligatory) + conlang (i.e., an obligatory on-topic comment about
conlangs just so that the post isn't completely off-topic).
[[translation relay]]
* A game similar to Telephone or Chinese Whispers, wherein the participants
translate a passage one at a time, in serial, into their own languages - and
then marvel at how far from the original the translations have gotten.
==CXS (Conlang X-SAMPA)==
[[CXS]] is a version of X-SAMPA for use on the CONLANG mailing list. X-SAMPA
is a way to write the IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet) using normal
plain-ASCII text that everyone can read.
* [http://www.theiling.de/ipa/ Theiling Online: Conlang X-Sampa (CXS)] -
includes CXS-to-IPA conversion chart
* [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Conlang/Appendix/CXS CXS at Wikibooks]
==Related lists==
The Auxlang list, mentioned above, is dedicated to international auxiliary
languages. Its archives and subscription interface are at
http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/auxlang.html .
The list [email protected] is dedicated to the planning and
conducting of [[conlang relay]]s, q.v.
==Resources==
* [http://www.arthaey.com/conlang/faq.html Arthaey's Conlang FAQ]
* [http://www.langmaker.com LangMaker] - repository of many conlang
"biographies"
* [http://wiki.frath.net Frath Wiki] - a similar site, and host of the
Conlang-L (wikified) FAQ
* [http://www.omniglot.com Omniglot] - which has information on more writing
systems than you thought could exist
[[Category:Conlanging culture]]
[[Category:Terminology]]
Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
4a. Re: Romániço
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" [email protected]
Date: Sun Apr 1, 2012 5:58 am ((PDT))
--- On Wed, 3/28/12, Gary Shannon <[email protected]> wrote:
> Everybody probably already knows
> about this, but it was new to me, so
> forgive me if I'm a day late and a dollar short.
>
> http://www.romaniczo.com/en_indiczo.html
Nope, twas new to me as well! Though the language's creator says it all:
"Romániço began as an attempt to teach Esperanto to friends ...
Unfortunately, certain features of the language proved to be
insurmountable hurdles for many of them ... until what began as Esperanto
became so different that it needed its own written grammar and dictionary"
It's little more than E-o trying to become I-a. :| There is a lot of
English influence, for ex. in how compound words are formed exactly like
English (pistolbater, nanojacter); perhaps too much to really call it
"reunited Romance". And it simply doesn't have the feel of a Romance
language (the verbal system is about as unRomance as a language can get),
let alone an inter-Romance one. It feels much more like a slightly
improved Esperanto.
I do like the la v. il distinction in the articles -- individual v. class.
That could be rather handy.
I also like the informal style of presentation and the sometimes quite
funny example sentences. About 5800 words in the lexicon -- pretty good
size for what amounts to little more than a jokelang.
Padraic
>
> ---quote---
> Romániço is a simplified reunification of the living
> neo-Latin
> langauges â Spanish, French, Italian, etc. â harking
> back to the lost
> Common Romance of the Middle Ages and making the Romance of
> today
> easier to grasp for non-Romance-speakers.
>
> It does this by filtering out local variations of the
> vocabulary of
> Latin Europe, stripping each word to its immediate Latinate
> source,
> then recasting it with a simplified orthography and
> grammar.
>
> On this site, youâll find everything you need to learn and
> start using
> Romániço today.
> ---/quote---
>
Messages in this topic (2)
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