There are 6 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Notice of a new conlang (was: How to choose the name of a conlang?)
From: R A Brown
2a. OT: Texas German dying out
From: Gary Shannon
2b. Re: OT: Texas German dying out
From: Adam Walker
2c. Re: OT: Texas German dying out
From: Anaïs Ahmed
2d. Re: OT: Texas German dying out
From: Adam Walker
3a. Re: Core arguments
From: Roger Mills
Messages
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1a. Notice of a new conlang (was: How to choose the name of a conlang?)
Posted by: "R A Brown" [email protected]
Date: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:09 am ((PDT))
On 08/03/2013 16:16, R A Brown wrote:
[snip]
>
> As a result of a recent Conlang thread and subsequent
> private emails following it, another conlang will be
> coming along - but I'll post more info at a later date.
> The name has not yet been determined (tho it _might_ be
> named according criterion A above).
The name is still to be determined! But I have posted a page
about the language:
http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Britannic/index.html
I know the page will read as heresy to some ;)
But it is something I have been urged to do by more than one
person in the past. So far I've hesitated, not least
because of the thought of turning out "yet another Romance
conlang."
Meanwhile work is progressing slowing on Outidic. A page on
pronouns is online and one on prepositions, conjunctions etc
is under construction:
http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Outis/Pronouns.html
http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Outis/Prep_Conj_Adv.html
There is also a PDF document with some Outidic vocabulary:
http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Outis/Vocabulary.pdf
I intend to finish the Outidic pages first, before
developing the British Romlang.
--
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
"language ⦠began with half-musical unanalysed expressions
for individual beings and events."
[Otto Jespersen, Progress in Language, 1895]
Messages in this topic (14)
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2a. OT: Texas German dying out
Posted by: "Gary Shannon" [email protected]
Date: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:42 pm ((PDT))
[QUOTE]
When Kaye Langehennig
Wong<http://www.mysanantonio.com/?controllerName=search&action=search&channel=news%2Flocal_news&search=1&inlineLink=1&query=%22Kaye+Langehennig+Wong%22>
was
a little girl in Katy in the '60s, her parents would take her to visit her
grandparents in Fredericksburg. My grandparents lived in a stone house on
Main Street, she says. I played with horny toads and walked down Main
Street listening to the ladies in the shops talking in German.
Wong's father spoke only German until he went to school. My parents spoke
German to each other when they didn't want us to know what they were
saying, she says. But like many parents of their generation, they didn't
teach her.
The German Wong heard on Main Street was unlike German spoken anywhere else
in the world. Texas German, the result of the flood of German immigrants
into South Central Texas in the 19th century, is an amalgam of many of the
dialects spoken in what is now Germany but was, until 1871, a collection of
independent states.
[END QUOTE]
Much more at the link.
Read more:
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Texas-German-dying-out-4343915.php#ixzz2NGn7j7ar
--gary
Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: OT: Texas German dying out
Posted by: "Adam Walker" [email protected]
Date: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:56 pm ((PDT))
The same is true for the Czech spoken in Ennis, a town near me. Twenty
or thirty years ago it was still common to hear older people
conversing in Czech. Now its almost totally gone.
Adam
On 3/11/13, Gary Shannon <[email protected]> wrote:
> [QUOTE]
>
> When Kaye Langehennig
> Wong<http://www.mysanantonio.com/?controllerName=search&action=search&channel=news%2Flocal_news&search=1&inlineLink=1&query=%22Kaye+Langehennig+Wong%22>
> was
> a little girl in Katy in the '60s, her parents would take her to visit her
> grandparents in Fredericksburg. My grandparents lived in a stone house on
> Main Street, she says. I played with horny toads and walked down Main
> Street listening to the ladies in the shops talking in German.
>
> Wong's father spoke only German until he went to school. My parents spoke
> German to each other when they didn't want us to know what they were
> saying, she says. But like many parents of their generation, they didn't
> teach her.
>
> The German Wong heard on Main Street was unlike German spoken anywhere else
> in the world. Texas German, the result of the flood of German immigrants
> into South Central Texas in the 19th century, is an amalgam of many of the
> dialects spoken in what is now Germany but was, until 1871, a collection of
> independent states.
>
> [END QUOTE]
>
> Much more at the link.
>
> Read more:
> http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Texas-German-dying-out-4343915.php#ixzz2NGn7j7ar
>
> --gary
>
Messages in this topic (4)
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2c. Re: OT: Texas German dying out
Posted by: "Anaïs Ahmed" [email protected]
Date: Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:22 pm ((PDT))
As I was passing through Ellinger, TX, I heard some people at a kolache
store talking English in thick Czech accents. This was not more than a year
ago. It's still there.
2013/3/11 Adam Walker <[email protected]>
> The same is true for the Czech spoken in Ennis, a town near me. Twenty
> or thirty years ago it was still common to hear older people
> conversing in Czech. Now its almost totally gone.
>
> Adam
>
> On 3/11/13, Gary Shannon <[email protected]> wrote:
> > [QUOTE]
> >
> > When Kaye Langehennig
> > Wong<
> http://www.mysanantonio.com/?controllerName=search&action=search&channel=news%2Flocal_news&search=1&inlineLink=1&query=%22Kaye+Langehennig+Wong%22
> >
> > was
> > a little girl in Katy in the '60s, her parents would take her to visit
> her
> > grandparents in Fredericksburg. My grandparents lived in a stone house
> on
> > Main Street, she says. I played with horny toads and walked down Main
> > Street listening to the ladies in the shops talking in German.
> >
> > Wong's father spoke only German until he went to school. My parents
> spoke
> > German to each other when they didn't want us to know what they were
> > saying, she says. But like many parents of their generation, they didn't
> > teach her.
> >
> > The German Wong heard on Main Street was unlike German spoken anywhere
> else
> > in the world. Texas German, the result of the flood of German immigrants
> > into South Central Texas in the 19th century, is an amalgam of many of
> the
> > dialects spoken in what is now Germany but was, until 1871, a collection
> of
> > independent states.
> >
> > [END QUOTE]
> >
> > Much more at the link.
> >
> > Read more:
> >
> http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Texas-German-dying-out-4343915.php#ixzz2NGn7j7ar
> >
> > --gary
> >
>
Messages in this topic (4)
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2d. Re: OT: Texas German dying out
Posted by: "Adam Walker" [email protected]
Date: Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:21 pm ((PDT))
At least it is holding on somewhere. In Ennis it is pretty much dead and gone.
Adam
On 3/11/13, Anaïs Ahmed <[email protected]> wrote:
> As I was passing through Ellinger, TX, I heard some people at a kolache
> store talking English in thick Czech accents. This was not more than a year
> ago. It's still there.
>
>
> 2013/3/11 Adam Walker <[email protected]>
>
>> The same is true for the Czech spoken in Ennis, a town near me. Twenty
>> or thirty years ago it was still common to hear older people
>> conversing in Czech. Now its almost totally gone.
>>
>> Adam
>>
>> On 3/11/13, Gary Shannon <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > [QUOTE]
>> >
>> > When Kaye Langehennig
>> > Wong<
>> http://www.mysanantonio.com/?controllerName=search&action=search&channel=news%2Flocal_news&search=1&inlineLink=1&query=%22Kaye+Langehennig+Wong%22
>> >
>> > was
>> > a little girl in Katy in the '60s, her parents would take her to visit
>> her
>> > grandparents in Fredericksburg. My grandparents lived in a stone house
>> on
>> > Main Street, she says. I played with horny toads and walked down Main
>> > Street listening to the ladies in the shops talking in German.
>> >
>> > Wong's father spoke only German until he went to school. My parents
>> spoke
>> > German to each other when they didn't want us to know what they were
>> > saying, she says. But like many parents of their generation, they
>> > didn't
>> > teach her.
>> >
>> > The German Wong heard on Main Street was unlike German spoken anywhere
>> else
>> > in the world. Texas German, the result of the flood of German
>> > immigrants
>> > into South Central Texas in the 19th century, is an amalgam of many of
>> the
>> > dialects spoken in what is now Germany but was, until 1871, a
>> > collection
>> of
>> > independent states.
>> >
>> > [END QUOTE]
>> >
>> > Much more at the link.
>> >
>> > Read more:
>> >
>> http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/article/Texas-German-dying-out-4343915.php#ixzz2NGn7j7ar
>> >
>> > --gary
>> >
>>
>
Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: Core arguments
Posted by: "Roger Mills" [email protected]
Date: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:37 pm ((PDT))
Just for fun, here's my versions of your exs. in Kash.
The loss of her jewelry made Nena cry.
akongani cando-ningandri yarundeñaña nenaye
aN-honga-ni cando-ningar-ni ya-rum-leñaña nena-e
NOMLZ.-lose-POSS jewelry-3sPOSS 3s-CAUS-cry Nena-DAT
The smoke made Nena cry.
patu yu (~ patuni) yarundeñaña nenaye
patu yu (~patu-ni) ya-rum-leñaña nena-e
smoke that (~smoke-DEF) 3s-CAUS-cry Nena-DAT
(maybe could be nena-n (accusative) here since there's a direct physical
effect, but that's an oft-overlooked distinction in Kash)
For some reason, the dictionary doesn't give a CAUS of leñaña, but it would be
as above. There would be another, perhaps more
colloquial (native??) way of saying these, using the "accidental form"
ca-leñaña with a nominative subject, thus 'SUBJ
broke-into-tears/was-overcome-with-crying' followed by a sub.clause, in the
first case "ombi cando-ningandri cakonga" = because her jewelry got lost
(another accid.form)--
in the second case "ombi alo patui" (lit. because from smoke-GEN)= because of
the smoke. I think in cases like these, Kash people would prefer to use the
ACCID form.
Mr. Murphy's sentences--
"I made him give you money on Tuesday.
He was made to give you money by me on Tuesday." etc.
--can't be directly translated into Kash, but rather would require paraphrase,
partly because some coercion seems to be implied thus requiring "I forced
that..." or "I caused that...." + the active version of "he gave you money on
Tues." It is possible to "passivize" that clause, but it's basically just an
inversion of the active sentence' O and S and is generally considered awkward
and/or "high-flown"...
(Also, the fact that the caus. of 'give"---rumele < vele-- means "to endow" is
a slight obstacle to direct translation.)
I wonder if a native speaker of Tagalog or one of the other PI languages would
be able to translate Mr.Murphy's exs.? I'd bet not.....or at least not very
fluently/naturalistically.
--- On Sat, 3/9/13, Carsten Becker <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Carsten Becker <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Core arguments
To: [email protected]
Date: Saturday, March 9, 2013, 7:02 PM
For what it's worth, here's my try on the subject:
<http://www.incatena.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=41504>. Disclaimer:
I'm not an expert either, and I've corrected myself multiple times during that
thread, and I'm still not confident I've understood everything correctly at the
end.
Carsten
Messages in this topic (4)
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