There are 5 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: the LCC5 relay is up
From: Jim Henry
1b. Re: the LCC5 relay is up
From: Roger Mills
1c. Re: the LCC5 relay is up
From: John Q
1d. Re: the LCC5 relay is up
From: Adam Walker
1e. Re: the LCC5 relay is up
From: H. S. Teoh
Messages
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1a. Re: the LCC5 relay is up
Posted by: "Jim Henry" [email protected]
Date: Mon May 6, 2013 10:39 pm ((PDT))
On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 2:00 AM, Alex Fink <[email protected]> wrote:
> http://conlang.org/language-creation-conference/lcc5/lcc5-relay/
> It was UNLWS that was responsible for the greatest transmogrification
> here. As I hear Tony told it (I sadly wasn't around for this part of
Usually the text starts out sensible and becomes nonsensical in the
course of re-re-re-....translation. Here, it went the other way
around -- David's brilliant bit of Dadaism got repeatedly rationalized
by various translators, until Tony completely rewrote it. (I know
from private emails and conversations that both John Q. and Sylvia, as
well as myself, tried to rationalize some parts of the text we
received that didn't make sense -- but not so radically as Tony did.)
Things I misunderstood in John's Ithkuil text: some negations, some
evidentials, a causative construction (so John's "the moon strengthens
you" became "the moon is stronger than you").
Things I deliberately changed:
The dragon seemed to be mentioned only once near the beginning. Later
on, there was a pronoun or two whose antecedent was unclear, and
interpreting it to mean the dragon, I re-mentioned the dragon by name.
The father hunting his son down to kill him didn't make sense; I
reinterpreted it it to mean that the father failed in his quest a
generation before, and now the son must risk his life in undertaking
the quest again.
Also, I submitted both a smooth translation from Ithkuil, and a smooth
translation from my gzb text. Onlhy the latter appears on the
website. Here is the former:
=== Smooth translation from Ithkuil ===
A father gives advice.
My child, come near me. You have decided to set out soon on a journey
to the mountain range on horseback, away from your family. I feel I
should advise you before your journey. Alas, if the dragon talks to
himself about this, don't let him give you something bad. He probably
won't burn and frighten your horse.
I have heard it said by the wise that there is no red fruit there.
People say they don't grow in the mountains. The full moon sees this
while the red fruit eats it. Alas, the moon is far stronger than you
and the fruit. The purple fruit is the genuine stuff. Don't let it
[your horse?] eat the fake stuff. The fruit is bad. Evil, in fact.
People say that you and your horse create a spirit of your family.
It's bad. I saw [it]. If I had eaten some of the purple fruit, then
I would not begin to hunt you, so that you would die.
My child, listen to this: if you don't eat all the fruit, it will
capture you. It is indeed sweet fruit that one eats. If the true
fruit were never dry, then someone would eat it. Indeed they would
eat it. Now, my child, go travel on your horse and baa like a goat as
you travel. Indeed.
--
Jim Henry
http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/
http://www.jimhenrymedicaltrust.org
Messages in this topic (11)
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1b. Re: the LCC5 relay is up
Posted by: "Roger Mills" [email protected]
Date: Tue May 7, 2013 3:56 am ((PDT))
--- On Mon, 5/6/13, James Kane <[email protected]> wrote:
Wow that is an incredible change from the first text to the last! About the
only similarity is that there is a father and some fruit involved!
James
On 6/05/2013, at 6:00 PM, Alex Fink <[email protected]> wrote:
> http://conlang.org/language-creation-conference/lcc5/lcc5-relay/
>
HA! One of the strangest relay texts I've ever seen!! No wonder it went so far
astray. I'm sorry to say I agree with Sally Caves comment.
First the father says don't touch the plums. Then he says they're delicious and
the son should eat them. So which is is? Is this some peculiarity of Dothraki
psychology? :-))))
On balance, it's a good thing that I wasn't involved in this relay. Too many
adjustments to be made for the culture of Cindu-- no horses or rideable animals
at all; no carrots, no plums (nor even comparable vegs and fruits); certainly
no unicorns :-))))) Goats, well sort-of (called lopa, but I view them as more
like sheep).
Messages in this topic (11)
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1c. Re: the LCC5 relay is up
Posted by: "John Q" [email protected]
Date: Tue May 7, 2013 6:49 am ((PDT))
Jim Henry wrote:
>=== Smooth translation from Ithkuil ===
>
>A father gives advice.
>
>My child, come near me. You have decided to set out soon on a journey
>to the mountain range on horseback, away from your family. I feel I
>should advise you before your journey. Alas, if the dragon talks to
>himself about this, don't let him give you something bad. He probably
>won't burn and frighten your horse.
>
>I have heard it said by the wise that there is no red fruit there.
>People say they don't grow in the mountains. The full moon sees this
>while the red fruit eats it. Alas, the moon is far stronger than you
>and the fruit. The purple fruit is the genuine stuff. Don't let it
>[your horse?] eat the fake stuff. The fruit is bad. Evil, in fact.
>
>People say that you and your horse create a spirit of your family.
>It's bad. I saw [it]. If I had eaten some of the purple fruit, then
>I would not begin to hunt you, so that you would die.
>
>My child, listen to this: if you don't eat all the fruit, it will
>capture you. It is indeed sweet fruit that one eats. If the true
>fruit were never dry, then someone would eat it. Indeed they would
>eat it. Now, my child, go travel on your horse and baa like a goat as
>you travel. Indeed.
--------------------------------------------------
It's interesting, Jim, that, except for the couple of spots where you
"mistranslated" the Ithkuil material, I like your smooth translation better
than my own!
It was indeed a fun and hilarious relay. Only Bill Spruill's presentation on
his "bureaulang" Yeshquur had me laughing harder. Can't wait till THAT video
is posted!
--John Q.
Messages in this topic (11)
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1d. Re: the LCC5 relay is up
Posted by: "Adam Walker" [email protected]
Date: Tue May 7, 2013 7:02 am ((PDT))
On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 8:49 AM, John Q <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> It was indeed a fun and hilarious relay. Only Bill Spruill's presentation
> on his "bureaulang" Yeshquur had me laughing harder. Can't wait till THAT
> video is posted!
>
> --John Q.
>
HERE! HERE! I had so much fun I couldn't even sleep the first night! that
must say something very sad about me, but so be it. I'm STILL randomly
bursting out in laughter about non-shiny minerals in the green-blue range,
four-legged mammals excluding pigs and goats, and the moon being out to get
us all. But I'll join Sally in blaming it all on flux and nightshade!
Adam
Messages in this topic (11)
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1e. Re: the LCC5 relay is up
Posted by: "H. S. Teoh" [email protected]
Date: Tue May 7, 2013 7:30 am ((PDT))
On Tue, May 07, 2013 at 03:56:26AM -0700, Roger Mills wrote:
[...]
> On balance, it's a good thing that I wasn't involved in this relay.
> Too many adjustments to be made for the culture of Cindu-- no horses
> or rideable animals at all; no carrots, no plums (nor even comparable
> vegs and fruits); certainly no unicorns :-))))) Goats, well sort-of
> (called lopa, but I view them as more like sheep).
That shouldn't be a problem; Ebisédian got by just fine having no stars
(thus turning a poem about stars into fountains of tears -- hey, it's a
lot more poetic!). :-P :-P
T
--
Indifference will certainly be the downfall of mankind, but who cares? --
Miquel van Smoorenburg
Messages in this topic (11)
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