There are 15 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: New language sentence trial
From: James Kane
2a. Re: Senjecan orthography: weak vowels.
From: J. 'Mach' Wust
2b. Re: Senjecan orthography: weak vowels.
From: David McCann
3a. Re: Too simple to be derived?
From: H. S. Teoh
4a. Re: Teonaht grammar?
From: H. S. Teoh
5a. Re: Screen Readers and Conlangs
From: Daniel Burgener
5b. Re: Screen Readers and Conlangs
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
5c. Re: Screen Readers and Conlangs
From: Elena ``of Valhalla''
6. 1200 Sentences in Asirka
From: Scott Hlad
7a. Re: Grammatical complexity
From: Adam Walker
7b. Re: Grammatical complexity
From: Jyri Lehtinen
7c. Re: Grammatical complexity
From: Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
7d. Re: Grammatical complexity
From: Adam Walker
8.1. Date and time on Cindu
From: Roger Mills
8.2. Re: Date and time on Cindu
From: Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
Messages
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1a. Re: New language sentence trial
Posted by: "James Kane" [email protected]
Date: Wed May 22, 2013 3:12 pm ((PDT))
'Go' could be in the infinitive if you want it to be; it just means that your
past tense is formed in an interesting way. But yes, it's more likely to be a
bare, uninflected form (which could be identical to the infinitive somewhat
like English). It could of course have some kind of inflection as well, maybe
it also inflects for aspect, for example.
James
On 22/05/2013, at 7:23 PM, James Thain <[email protected]> wrote:
> I got this idea from a "simple syntax" that Rick Harrison made available
> ostensibly for an auxlang. I thought it would make a good blueprint for the
> VSO language I am attempting.
> In his syntax (which I likely misunderstood) he has this explanation which I
> of course missed. 'where "did" is a verb modifier indicating that the
> preceding verb is in the simple past tense,'
>
> Yes, 'ikit' is supposed to be the auxiliary verb, The problem I have is the
> english go seemed like an infinitive but I think now it is a finite verb. How
> I form this finite go word is what seems to be messing me up. Obviously it
> can't be an infinitive and I'm not sure how I would form this word should it
> be formed more like an imperative with the auxiliary taking/being all the
> marking.
>
> Thanks for your questions and input.
> Jim
>
> Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 14:02:02 +1200
> From: James Kane <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: New language sentence trial
>
> Can you explain a bit more about what is going on in this sentence? Why is go
> in the infinitive? Is 'ikit' from the verb do or is it just a TAM marker or a
> 'dummy verb' like the English word in the equivalent sentence?
>
>
> James
Messages in this topic (4)
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2a. Re: Senjecan orthography: weak vowels.
Posted by: "J. 'Mach' Wust" [email protected]
Date: Wed May 22, 2013 3:20 pm ((PDT))
On Wed, 22 May 2013 15:52:44 -0400, C. Brickner wrote:
>I don’t think I’ll ever be satisfied with the orthography for
>Senejcas! I’m trying to work with seven criteria:
>1. It can be written in cursive.
>2. No diacritics.
>3. No digraphs.
>4. Latin letters.
>5. Composed characters for ease in replacing.
>6. Some semblance of correspondence between the grapheme and some
>phoneme somewhere.
>7. My own esthetic sense.
Very nice list. Are these wheighted criteria? Does #6 also mean that
there must be unambiguous representations for each phoneme? If you can
do with ambiguity, I would suggest using simple _i_, _e_ and _u_.
I am used to representing schwa with simple _e_ and /e/ with an acute
_é_. Granted, this is in a language that is heavy on schwa. However,
finding a diacritic for the full sound feels easier to me than finding
one for schwa. Also, I drop the diacritic in combinations such as _ee_
or _eu_ where schwa cannot appear.
>My first plan was to use ï, ë, and ü. As I am using single and
>double acute accents to indicate tone, the diareses added more clutter
>above the letters, not to mention the occasional turned comma above to
>indicate palatalization and caron to indicate labialization.
Do all these potentially appear on your "weak" [I], [@] and [U], too?
>1. sanółtęvi
>2. sanółt ë vi
>3. sanółt ə vi
>4. sanółt ɘ vi
>5. sanółt ε vi
>6. sanółt ɜ vi
>7. sanółt э vi
>8. sanółt є vi
>#s 1 and 2 are eliminated because of the diacritics. #3 is a
>possibility; it is used in some natlangs . #4 is not pleasing
>esthetically. I see #5 as being easy to write in cursive, #6 not so
>much. I am leaning toward #8. It’s not unattractive and it can be
>written in cursive like #5. Influenced by the numeral 3, I suppose, I
>see #7 as backward.
I prefer #3, and for the very reason that you have indicated: It is
usual. To me, the others feel like ad-hoc inventions (unless Senejcas
has some relation to Albanian or Luxembourguish, in which case #2 is
the way to go). Maybe my feelings come from my having abandoned strange
letters I used to employ. I used to employ _i_, _ü_ and _u_ for [I],
[Y] and [U], while [i], [y] and [u] were represented by letter versions
with a lengthened stem: _j_, _ÿ_ and _y_ (or turned _h_).
I think that a couple of months ago I came along detailed if oldish
instructions on how to write cursive IPA. Ah, I remember where it was:
Not in some obscure manual to some dialect atlas (maybe there are
instructions, too, but most use older phonetic alphabets), but on John
Wells's discontinued phonetic blog:
http://phonetic-blog.blogspot.ch/2012/06/cursives.html
--
grüess
mach
Messages in this topic (8)
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2b. Re: Senjecan orthography: weak vowels.
Posted by: "David McCann" [email protected]
Date: Thu May 23, 2013 4:24 am ((PDT))
On Wed, 22 May 2013 15:52:44 -0400
"C. Brickner" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I don’t think I’ll ever be satisfied with the orthography for
> Senejcas! I’m trying to work with seven criteria:
>
> Obviously, there has to be some give and take. My current problem
> is how to represent what are known in Senjecas as “weak vowels”: I/ɪ;
> ə/@; and ʊ/U.
>
> The other day I was reading her translation of the Babel story and I
> noticed that Ms. Sotomayor had used several IPA symbols in her
> orthography. It didn’t look bad at all! If a conlanger of her
> caliber could do it, I figured I could use non-Latin letters also.
>
African languages use IPA-derived symbols, especially in the Ivory
Coast and Burkina:
"Latin iota" Ɩ ɩ Codes U+0196, U+0269
"Latin upsilon" Ʊ ʊ Codes U+01B1, U+028A
"Latin reversed E" Ǝ ǝ Codes U+018E, U+01DD
(note the normal schwas Ə ə are U+018F, U+0259)
Messages in this topic (8)
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3a. Re: Too simple to be derived?
Posted by: "H. S. Teoh" [email protected]
Date: Wed May 22, 2013 4:45 pm ((PDT))
On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 06:13:48PM -0400, Matthew George wrote:
> The language that I'm working on makes a variety of distinctions among
> negation, separating usages that English (and from your comments, many
> other languages) group together.
>
> For example, one form of negation is equivalent to the logical 'not',
> another to the logical 'anti'. In English, if we say we're unhappy or
> not happy, that's almost always interpreted as meaning we're
> unsatisfied or displeased. But if we describe a color as "not green",
> no one assumes that the color must be red. In my conlang, 'not happy'
> and 'anti-happy' are distinct - all concepts are negated in the same
> way English negates color. There are also "not anti-state" and
> "neither state nor anti-state" prefixes.
[...]
In Ebisédian, there is a distinction between absence and opposite, which
in English is conflated in negation. Absence of wisdom is mere
ignorance, for example, whereas anti-wisdom is active overthrowing of
wisdom, the conscious choice of unwiseness. Absence of beauty is mere
ordinary appearance, whereas anti-beauty is ugliness. The nullar number
in nouns indicate only absence; whereas negation proper would indicate
the presence of an antithesis of the noun referent, an arch-opponent, or
an anti-matter evil-twin counterpart, as opposed to mere absence.
In Tatari Faran, the distinction is not quite as clear-cut, though in
general, similarly to Ebisédian, negation does not imply opposite.
Saying someone is not pretty does not imply ugliness; in general a
different adjective is used for opposites. For example:
1) tara' sei jui'in kakat.
tara' sei jui'in kakat.
3SG CVY:FEM beautiful gaudy(FIN)
She is beautiful. (The finalizer _kakat_ does not carry semantic
content, only overtones.)
2) tara' sei jui'in beikakat.
tara' sei jui'in bei-kakat.
3SG CVY:FEM beautiful NEG-gaudy(FIN)
She is not beautiful.
The sentence structure of (2) is interesting, as the negation marker
only appears on the finalizer _kakat_, as though the first part of the
sentence is saying that she *is* beautiful, yet the negated finalizer
implies a failure at some point of the process of being beautiful,
hence, an incomplete beauty, or falling short of actual beauty; the lack
of beauty.
Expressing the opposite uses a distinct, unrelated adjective:
3) tara' sei mopan kuta'
3SG CVY:FEM ugly deformed(FIN)
She is ugly.
Again, the finalizer does not actually carry semantic content, though
its glossed meaning, as a native speaker would describe it, indicates
that this is a rather forceful statement of anti-beauty, not merely a
lack of beauty, but having some quality that opposes beauty.
T
--
People say I'm indecisive, but I'm not sure about that. -- YHL, CONLANG
Messages in this topic (24)
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4a. Re: Teonaht grammar?
Posted by: "H. S. Teoh" [email protected]
Date: Wed May 22, 2013 5:38 pm ((PDT))
On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 07:55:05PM -0700, Padraic Brown wrote:
> Ah, very sorry indeed! I had fully intended to mention earlier that I
> heard back from Sally. She's moving her pages (yet again!). The new
> address is:
>
> http://www.concavities.org
>
> I gather it's not fully active as of yet. I tried yesterday and
> couldn't find the actual Grammar, but Sally says she's working on it!
[...]
Thanks for the followup! Just got back from vacation, and just checked
her new site... some yummy Teonaht is back up now! Hooray! Not all the
links are working, though. I guess Sally is still in the process of
working on them?
T
--
It's amazing how careful choice of punctuation can leave you hanging:
Messages in this topic (5)
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5a. Re: Screen Readers and Conlangs
Posted by: "Daniel Burgener" [email protected]
Date: Wed May 22, 2013 7:27 pm ((PDT))
Hey Nicole,
So, this would likely not be an easy task, and may be impossible.
First off, working with the company that created JAWS is highly unlikely,
as most software companies would not be willing to help a random programmer
who called them up looking to improve their software.
That said, I've thought of a few options that might be pursuable, but I
need some more information from you.
1) When you talk about a "conlang synthesizer package", what format of text
are you wanting it to be able to read? I'm assuming a conscript written in
Unicode? In my research, I discovered an old yahoo conlang group thread
where Sai asked about an IPA speech synthesizer, and it appears the
conclusion reached there was that it was likely undoable. (
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/conlang/message/157833).
If you're looking to synthesize conscripts, rather than IPA, that would
require every conlang to be accounted for individually, which would be
considerable effort.
2) Do you know if you can import a synthesizer into JAWS, or are you
limited to the two they provide? As I mentioned previously, modifying JAWS
is probably impossible, so this functionality would need to already exist
even if a synthesizer could be made. Something I saw online made it sound
like you could import Microsoft SAPI5 voices?
3) If you had several screen readers, how hard would it be to switch
between them? If JAWS can't do what you need, but you were able to get a
SAPI5 voice that could handle conlangs, you could download a free open
source screen reader, such as NVDA (http://www.nvaccess.org/), import the
voice into that and use it whenever you needed conlang support.
Ultimately, it seems to me as though the biggest problem is simply going to
be the sheer variety of conlangs out there. I'm seeing contradictory
information online as to whether creating a custom SAPI5 voice is feasible
or not. It seems like many of the problems for a general IPA voice would
also make creating a voice for a new language extremely difficult. And I'm
not sure how much effort could be done up front to minimize the per conlang
effort, potentially very little.
I should have gone to bed a while ago, so I'm going to do that now, but
I'll see if I can find anything else about generating custom SAPI5 voices
tomorrow. Potentially it's possible that someone could put together a
skeleton of a conlang voice synthesizer but that the details would need to
be populated per conlang by each conlanger. But I don't know yet how much
work that would entail. Likely it's a prohibitively large amount...
-Daniel
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 8:40 PM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <
[email protected]> wrote:
> Adam, your question brought up for me, an interesting topic. I meant to
> brint this up awhile back, but kept forgetting.
>
> The screen reader I use has nat lang support, but no conlang support. It
> seems to me someone should create a conlang sythensizer package. I think
> any
> programmer would need to work with the company who created Jaws, which is
> the screen reader I use.
>
>
>
> Any programmers on the list, I can gice out the number.
>
>
>
> Mellissa Green
>
>
>
>
>
> @GreenNovelist
>
>
>
Messages in this topic (4)
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5b. Re: Screen Readers and Conlangs
Posted by: "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" [email protected]
Date: Wed May 22, 2013 8:34 pm ((PDT))
Yes, you can import synthesizers. And yes, I know people who have NVDa and
Jaws on their computers.
I guess it would be Unicode, as I'm not sure how sythesisers are created. I
know each conlang would need to be used.
Mellissa Green
@GreenNovelist
-----Original Message-----
From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Daniel Burgener
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 7:27 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Screen Readers and Conlangs
Hey Nicole,
So, this would likely not be an easy task, and may be impossible.
First off, working with the company that created JAWS is highly unlikely,
as most software companies would not be willing to help a random programmer
who called them up looking to improve their software.
That said, I've thought of a few options that might be pursuable, but I
need some more information from you.
1) When you talk about a "conlang synthesizer package", what format of text
are you wanting it to be able to read? I'm assuming a conscript written in
Unicode? In my research, I discovered an old yahoo conlang group thread
where Sai asked about an IPA speech synthesizer, and it appears the
conclusion reached there was that it was likely undoable. (
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/conlang/message/157833).
If you're looking to synthesize conscripts, rather than IPA, that would
require every conlang to be accounted for individually, which would be
considerable effort.
2) Do you know if you can import a synthesizer into JAWS, or are you
limited to the two they provide? As I mentioned previously, modifying JAWS
is probably impossible, so this functionality would need to already exist
even if a synthesizer could be made. Something I saw online made it sound
like you could import Microsoft SAPI5 voices?
3) If you had several screen readers, how hard would it be to switch
between them? If JAWS can't do what you need, but you were able to get a
SAPI5 voice that could handle conlangs, you could download a free open
source screen reader, such as NVDA (http://www.nvaccess.org/), import the
voice into that and use it whenever you needed conlang support.
Ultimately, it seems to me as though the biggest problem is simply going to
be the sheer variety of conlangs out there. I'm seeing contradictory
information online as to whether creating a custom SAPI5 voice is feasible
or not. It seems like many of the problems for a general IPA voice would
also make creating a voice for a new language extremely difficult. And I'm
not sure how much effort could be done up front to minimize the per conlang
effort, potentially very little.
I should have gone to bed a while ago, so I'm going to do that now, but
I'll see if I can find anything else about generating custom SAPI5 voices
tomorrow. Potentially it's possible that someone could put together a
skeleton of a conlang voice synthesizer but that the details would need to
be populated per conlang by each conlanger. But I don't know yet how much
work that would entail. Likely it's a prohibitively large amount...
-Daniel
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 8:40 PM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <
[email protected]> wrote:
> Adam, your question brought up for me, an interesting topic. I meant to
> brint this up awhile back, but kept forgetting.
>
> The screen reader I use has nat lang support, but no conlang support. It
> seems to me someone should create a conlang sythensizer package. I think
> any
> programmer would need to work with the company who created Jaws, which is
> the screen reader I use.
>
>
>
> Any programmers on the list, I can gice out the number.
>
>
>
> Mellissa Green
>
>
>
>
>
> @GreenNovelist
>
>
>
Messages in this topic (4)
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5c. Re: Screen Readers and Conlangs
Posted by: "Elena ``of Valhalla''" [email protected]
Date: Thu May 23, 2013 7:05 am ((PDT))
On 2013-05-22 at 17:40:23 -0700, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews wrote:
> The screen reader I use has nat lang support, but no conlang support. It
> seems to me someone should create a conlang sythensizer package. I think any
> programmer would need to work with the company who created Jaws, which is
> the screen reader I use.
It is not a complete solution, but the speech synthesizer espeak_
is unusual in that instead of using samples from real speakers
it is based on formant synthesis. The results are definitely
more robotic/unnatural than most alternatives, but they
have instructions for `adding a language`_ which look
quite easy and require no programming experience.
I believe it could be a way to easily prepare synthesis for
some conlangs, at least those that are not too exotic,
but it would still require some work for every supported conlang.
.. _espeak: http://espeak.sourceforge.net/
.. _`adding a language`: http://espeak.sourceforge.net/add_language.html
--
Elena ``of Valhalla''
Messages in this topic (4)
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6. 1200 Sentences in Asirka
Posted by: "Scott Hlad" [email protected]
Date: Wed May 22, 2013 8:35 pm ((PDT))
I continue with the 1200 Sentence project for Asirka. I have translated 12
sentences to date.
http://www3.telus.net/public/scottoh/asirka/1200sentences.html
Scotto
Messages in this topic (1)
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7a. Re: Grammatical complexity
Posted by: "Adam Walker" [email protected]
Date: Wed May 22, 2013 9:19 pm ((PDT))
Okay here is an example of the sort of case marking -.m thinking of:
Tom-ag bet John-da hat-or father-gen money-pa Flicka-the race-tem.
Tom bet John, who wears the hat, father's money on Flicka during the race.
Does this make a lick of sense? Or is this another of those things
that only work between my ears but fail utterly in the outside world?
Adam
On 5/22/13, Adam Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ah but I don't *have* any examples yet. I'm probably going about this
> backwards- a not-unusual occurance for me, but I'm trying to
> understand this first so that when I do build the structures, they do
> what I want them to.
>
> And while I agree the Dative is very noun-y when it marks a DO, I feel
> it is rather adverb-y when it marks a goal. Maybe I'm just making this
> more difficult than need be and the world inside my head is failing to
> match reality.
>
> Adam
>
> On 5/22/13, George Corley <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Adam Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> All of which make(s) sense to me. I guess what I'm concerned about is
>>> setting this up in such a way that someone of us comes along AFTER I've
>>> done all this work of designing and tweaking and all and then says "Why
>>> are
>>> you calling THAT a case? All you're doing is deriving an adjective?"
>>> I'm
>>> trying to get a better theoretical grasp on why Dative is a noun case
>>> and
>>> not an adverb, why Genitive is likewise a noun case and not an
>>> adjective,
>>> and thus how I would defend ornative as a case as well. What Hixkaranya
>>> is
>>> interesting, but I'm pretty sure that Gravgaln won't behave that way
>>> syntactically, even though the semantics may overlap somewhat. That
>>> example
>>> helps all these vague notions swirling in my head come a bit clearer.
>>>
>>
>> I can easily help you with the dative issue. The dative usually marks
>> the
>> indirect object, or semantic role GOAL. This is a position that can only
>> be filled by a noun. It's not adverby in any way. (There will, of
>> course,
>> be variation in the use of the dative, but at it's core it's usually
>> marking the goal/recipient.) The genitive gets a little more
>> complicated,
>> but still basically boils down to it behaving differently from an
>> adjective
>> syntactically.
>>
>> I think the best way for us to help you would be for you to show us some
>> examples of how this case will actually be *used*. Then we can help you
>> analyze it. Generally, I advocate generating examples as much as
>> possible,
>> then analyzing them as if you were an outside linguist to get at what
>> your
>> grammar actually does.
>>
>
Messages in this topic (15)
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7b. Re: Grammatical complexity
Posted by: "Jyri Lehtinen" [email protected]
Date: Thu May 23, 2013 4:39 am ((PDT))
> I'm trying to get a better theoretical grasp on why Dative is a noun case
> and
> not an adverb, why Genitive is likewise a noun case and not an adjective,
> and thus how I would defend ornative as a case as well.
>
The distinction between adverbs and adverbial cases (cases used for
adverbial noun phrases, such as the local cases) can be somewhat muddy. In
addition to clear cases, a language might have some affixes that behave
more or less similarly to these but lack their productivity. If such an
affix is only attested with a closed class of words or in certain idiomatic
expressions or if it has somehow aberrant syntax, it might be a better idea
to call it a derivation. With large case systems it's hard to determine
where it's best to draw the line between case forms and adverbs. It's
useful to look at the Hungarian cases system with it's extensions and try
to figure out where the line between cases and adverbial derivations really
lies.
-Jyri
Messages in this topic (15)
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7c. Re: Grammatical complexity
Posted by: "Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets" [email protected]
Date: Thu May 23, 2013 5:24 am ((PDT))
On 23 May 2013 13:39, Jyri Lehtinen <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> The distinction between adverbs and adverbial cases (cases used for
> adverbial noun phrases, such as the local cases) can be somewhat muddy. In
> addition to clear cases, a language might have some affixes that behave
> more or less similarly to these but lack their productivity. If such an
> affix is only attested with a closed class of words or in certain idiomatic
> expressions or if it has somehow aberrant syntax, it might be a better idea
> to call it a derivation.
A case in point is the Latin locative case. I guess it's only treated as a
case because it neatly patterns with other cases in terms of morphology.
> With large case systems it's hard to determine
> where it's best to draw the line between case forms and adverbs. It's
> useful to look at the Hungarian cases system with it's extensions and try
> to figure out where the line between cases and adverbial derivations really
> lies.
>
>
The Basque case system is another such can of worms. The usual paradigms
given mask a whole bunch of complications, and various analyses disagree on
things as simple as whether the genitive should be considered a case at
all! I'm currently reading a great book about Basque (_Standard Basque, a
progressive grammar_, by Rudolf de Rijk) and have practically given hope on
the whole question of case in that language. It's a mess beyond belief :P .
--
Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
Messages in this topic (15)
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7d. Re: Grammatical complexity
Posted by: "Adam Walker" [email protected]
Date: Thu May 23, 2013 7:01 am ((PDT))
Thank you both, Jyri and Christophe. This is just what I was trying to get
at, was feeling intuitively but poorly expressing, was driving me nuts.
Once you get past marking for the subject, DO and IO (and even sometimes
with the latter two!) the cases become less and less prototypically
noun-like and the distinctions between noun case and adverbal and/or
adjectival marking get progressively muddier. Last night as I pondered
this I got to thinking that perhaps the "difference" between a "case" and
some derivational marking is that the "cases" behave more like PPs that
straight adverbs or adjectives. That's the notion I'm working with at the
moment, and so, for the moment, I'm saying that Ornative is a case in
Gravgaln, not an adjectival derivation. My what a quandary I've put myself
in.
Adam
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 7:24 AM, Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets <
[email protected]> wrote:
> On 23 May 2013 13:39, Jyri Lehtinen <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> > The distinction between adverbs and adverbial cases (cases used for
> > adverbial noun phrases, such as the local cases) can be somewhat muddy.
> In
> > addition to clear cases, a language might have some affixes that behave
> > more or less similarly to these but lack their productivity. If such an
> > affix is only attested with a closed class of words or in certain
> idiomatic
> > expressions or if it has somehow aberrant syntax, it might be a better
> idea
> > to call it a derivation.
>
>
> A case in point is the Latin locative case. I guess it's only treated as a
> case because it neatly patterns with other cases in terms of morphology.
>
>
> > With large case systems it's hard to determine
> > where it's best to draw the line between case forms and adverbs. It's
> > useful to look at the Hungarian cases system with it's extensions and try
> > to figure out where the line between cases and adverbial derivations
> really
> > lies.
> >
> >
> The Basque case system is another such can of worms. The usual paradigms
> given mask a whole bunch of complications, and various analyses disagree on
> things as simple as whether the genitive should be considered a case at
> all! I'm currently reading a great book about Basque (_Standard Basque, a
> progressive grammar_, by Rudolf de Rijk) and have practically given hope on
> the whole question of case in that language. It's a mess beyond belief :P .
> --
> Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
>
> http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
> http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
>
Messages in this topic (15)
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8.1. Date and time on Cindu
Posted by: "Roger Mills" [email protected]
Date: Thu May 23, 2013 5:40 am ((PDT))
OK, another year has rolled by, another Geburtstag, cumpleaños etc. and it's
time to update you all. (NB I'm still here!!)
At 8:22am EDT (12:22 UTC) on today May 23, 2013, it was
12hr 33min (about an hour and a half after mid-day, siesta time :-)) ), uwam 16
açulus 760
(13 days hence will be New Year's day of 761, lembrim 1 açumbres)
Messages in this topic (28)
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8.2. Re: Date and time on Cindu
Posted by: "Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets" [email protected]
Date: Thu May 23, 2013 5:50 am ((PDT))
On 23 May 2013 14:40, Roger Mills <[email protected]> wrote:
> OK, another year has rolled by, another Geburtstag, cumpleaños etc. and
> it's time to update you all. (NB I'm still here!!)
>
>
Adamla |ledan! As we say in Moten :) .
--
Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
Messages in this topic (28)
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