There are 12 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Hello, and language sketch.
From: neo gu
1b. Re: Hello, and language sketch.
From: Galen Buttitta
1c. Re: Hello, and language sketch.
From: Aodhán Aannestad
2a. Re: Animal Noises?
From: Adam Walker
2b. Re: Animal Noises?
From: Roger Mills
2c. Re: Animal Noises?
From: C. Brickner
2d. Re: Animal Noises?
From: Padraic Brown
2e. Re: Animal Noises?
From: Scar Cvxni
2f. Re: Animal Noises?
From: Padraic Brown
2g. Re: Animal Noises?
From: Douglas Koller
3a. Re: Fwd: writing (almost) entirely in lower-case letters
From: Zach Wellstood
3b. Re: Fwd: writing (almost) entirely in lower-case letters
From: Padraic Brown
Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. Re: Hello, and language sketch.
Posted by: "neo gu" qiihos...@gmail.com
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:16 am ((PDT))
On Sun, 23 Jun 2013 23:28:43 -0500, Aodhán Aannestad
<tolkien_fr...@aannestad.com> wrote:
>Hello! I'm a longtime lurker, finally deciding to get involved a little.
>Some of you may have met me at the last LCC, I'm with UT Austin's
>conlang club and I drove some people around. I've been conlanging on and
>off for quite some time now, but I don't have much to show for it - I
>tend to be singlemindedly focused on realism, and as my level of
>linguistics knowledge has increased I've scrapped and restarted on
>several occasions due to realising how horribly unrealistic of a
>language I'd created. This is kind of the latest iteration of that
>cycle, and as I'm done with all the core undergrad ling classes now
>hopefully I've run out of major things to learn and it'll prove to be
>the last.
Welcome to active participation!
I'm not one of the experts on naturalistic conlanging, but I do have one
comment: one of your fricatives is showing up as a /?/ in the archives; also,
/w j ? l/.
--
Jeff Jones
>Anyway, on to the language. It doesn't have a name yet, sadly - I'm
>using it for a protolang for a large project, and since said large
>project has yet to really begin, it's not really in a state where I can
>really name anything. (I suppose I could come up with an endonym for it
>- it'd be something like 'Lesuy' (/lesuj/, /person-speak/) or something,
>though that doesn't sound that great to my ears.)
>
>Phonologically, it's not that interesting - five vowels (/a i u e o/),
>two stop series (/p t k/ and /p^(h) t^(h) k^(h)/, transcribed <b d g>
>and <p t k>), /m n/ - the usual stuff. It only has one fricative series,
>but it does distinguish /?/ and /s/ (for four total, /f ? s x/). /w j ?
>l/ round out the inventory.
>Syllable structure is (C)(G)V(G)(C), where <G> is a glide. /uw ij/ are
>disallowed, and maximal CGVGC syllables are very rare. Affixes have no
>shape target - anything from V to a maximal syllable is in theory
>permitted. Length is kind of phonemic on consonants (really, a 'long
>consonant' is just two adjacent identical consonants - /alla/ 'day' is
>VC.CV, not V.C?V), not on vowels - any sequences of two identical vowels
>are shrunk into one (e.g. /emnira/, 'girl', from /emni/ 'woman' + /ira/
>'child'). /i/ and /u/ become glides when adjacent to other vowels (e.g.
>/dorayra/ 'boy', from /dora /'man' + /ira/). Aspiration isn't
>distinguished in codas. There's not much else in the way of phonological
>rules/alternations, at the moment this is the idealised pre-protolang
>stage, and I'll need to send it through some sound changes before I get
>a good protolang by the technical definition.
>Stress is noncontrastive - it occurs on the heaviest of the last three
>syllables, defaulting to the antepenultimate when they're all equal
>(so/魮ira, dorṲa,////dal鳩se (do-person-COP-ATT)/, etc.)/./
>
>Grammatically, it's agglutinative and erg-abs. The two basic word
>classes are noun and verb (all 'adjectives' are just verbs, and at least
>in the protolanguage all 'adverbs' are clearly nouns or nominalised
>verbs marked with a non-core case). Word order is VSO when there's no
>overt complementiser, and SOV when there is (so /fikol le/ 'the man has
>gone', but /le/ /fikolti/ 'the fact that the man has gone').
>
>Verbs don't care about person, number, or tense, but there are 5 or 7
>aspect markers (perfective/stative (null-marked), progressive, perfect,
>expective, intentive(?), and hortative and imperative if you count them
>- they're mutually exclusive with aspect). It has a number of 'mood'
>markers: potential and permissive; volitive, suggestive, and
>necessitive, and weak and strong expectation (weak is for 'I bet X is
>the case' and strong is for 'X /has/ to be the case, I just know it').
>Relative clauses are formed by using the attributive affix
>/-se/:/fikolse le/ 'the man who has gone'. /-se/ doesn't specify the
>role the modified noun would have in the clause, that's left up to
>context (so typically you can only relativise obliques when the
>subclause has all of its core arguments overtly specified). (This works
>mostly like the Japanese rentaikei.)
>
>The only obligatory marking on nouns is case, but there's a number of
>other potential affixes. Number is especially complex - specific
>quantities are marked directly on the noun (so/lemofyethon/ 'twenty
>people', it's base-8 so that breaks down as /le-mo-fye-thon/
>'person-8-2-4' for (2*8)+4 people), and there are also suffixes for
>'more than half (of a group)', 'less than half (of a group)', 'part (of
>a unit)', and 'all (of a unit)'. These can be augmented by 'all' or
>'none', and further by 'the next' or 'the previous' (allowing for very
>long sequences such as /lemofyethondawfag /'none of the last twenty
>people'). Demonstratives are also noun suffixes (there's a two-way
>distinction, 'this'/'that'), and an interrogative marker can slot in
>here too (/lewos?/ 'who? / which person?').
>
>There are a good number of cases (it's kind of Finno-Ugric in this
>regard :P) Beyond the erg and null-marked abs, there's two kinds of
>genitives, possessive and categorical (for things like 'men of that
>village', 'the strength of an ox', 'a sword of bronze' and so on), both
>of which form verbs (so//'the man's cat' has to be /lenase nyawa/ with
>-/se/, not */lena nyawa/ - /lena nyawa /is grammatical, but it would be
>heard as 'the cat is the man's').
>Locative cases are the following: inessive and exessive (both used for
>general locatives, inessive for being within the boundaries of a place,
>exessive for being near but outside the boundaries of a place or
>object), superessive and subessive, proessive ('in front of') and
>postessive ('behind'), comitative, allative (also used as a dative) and
>ablative (also used as the agent of causatives and volitives), illative
>and ellative, superlative ('going over') and sublative ('going under'),
>circumlative/circumessive, and adspective ('facing') and abspective
>('facing away from').
>Non-locative cases are benefactive (also used for the experiencer with a
>number of perception verbs - 'see' for example has a BEN subject when
>you would expect ERG, and giving it an ERG subject changes the meaning
>to 'look at'), instrumental, causative, and comparative.
>Copular constructions are formed by affixing the copular verbaliser
>/-si/ to nouns - /dorasi le/ 'the person is a man'. This allows for a
>somewhat idiosyncratic way to express motion - while it's perfectly
>grammatical to say /fyokh ne sakhtasoy /(/go-PROG 1-ABS river-ALL,
>/literally 'I am going to the river'), it's much more native-sounding to
>say /sakhtasoysi ne/ (/river-ALL-COP 1-ABS, /literally 'I am to the river').
>
>Beyond three generic 'pronouns' (1st person exclusive and inclusive and
>2nd person), there's not much in the way of real pronouns - nouns can be
>used with any person as their referent, and typical non-personal
>pronouny things are done with nouns plus suffixes (so 'who' is just
>/lewos /(/person-INT/), literally 'which person'). There is a set of
>'generic nouns', though, which are basically nouns that refer to quite
>large categories of things - 'person', 'object', 'place', 'point in
>time', 'state of being', 'piece', 'reason/cause', and 'action' make up
>the set - and this allows for fairly conventionalised pronouns ('person'
>can be 'him/her', 'object' can be 'it', 'place' plus the near
>demonstrative can be 'here', and so on). These nouns are further
>distinguished from other nouns by being used as nominaliser suffixes -
>so /ub/, the generic for 'reason/cause', combines with /ryukol /'has
>died' to make /ryukolub/ 'the reason [the subj] died'.
>There are also two generic verbs, meaning something like 'to do (it)'
>and 'to go (there)'. They can also be used as nominalisers (somewhat
>ironically :P), meaning 'method' and 'process', respectively.
>
>There's a few other small details here and there (I've left out
>valence-change affixes, for example), but that's a basic overview of the
>language. The goal is realism (indeed, all else is secondary), so some
>comments in regards to how realistic these systems are would be
>appreciated! I've got a few ideas on where to go with it from here, but
>if anyone has any ideas I'd be happy to hear them.
>
>This is my main conlang project, but I'm also working on a set of
>condialects of Japanese (splitting off at various points after around
>1610?), and I'd be happy to describe them if anyone's interested. (It's
>gotten to the point where I'll slip into my primary condialect every
>once in a while while thinking in Japanese, even when I'm not explicitly
>trying to think in it :P)
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
1b. Re: Hello, and language sketch.
Posted by: "Galen Buttitta" satorarepotenetoperarot...@gmail.com
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:35 am ((PDT))
Based on the location of that first /?/ I'm going to guess that it's a
voiceless dental fricative. Is that correct, and is the second /?/ supposed to
be an alveolar approximant?
SATOR
AREPO
TENET
OPERA
ROTAS
On Jun 24, 2013, at 14:16, neo gu <qiihos...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Jun 2013 23:28:43 -0500, Aodhán Aannestad
> <tolkien_fr...@aannestad.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello! I'm a longtime lurker, finally deciding to get involved a little.
>> Some of you may have met me at the last LCC, I'm with UT Austin's
>> conlang club and I drove some people around. I've been conlanging on and
>> off for quite some time now, but I don't have much to show for it - I
>> tend to be singlemindedly focused on realism, and as my level of
>> linguistics knowledge has increased I've scrapped and restarted on
>> several occasions due to realising how horribly unrealistic of a
>> language I'd created. This is kind of the latest iteration of that
>> cycle, and as I'm done with all the core undergrad ling classes now
>> hopefully I've run out of major things to learn and it'll prove to be
>> the last.
>
> Welcome to active participation!
>
> I'm not one of the experts on naturalistic conlanging, but I do have one
> comment: one of your fricatives is showing up as a /?/ in the archives; also,
> /w j ? l/.
>
> --
> Jeff Jones
>
>> Anyway, on to the language. It doesn't have a name yet, sadly - I'm
>> using it for a protolang for a large project, and since said large
>> project has yet to really begin, it's not really in a state where I can
>> really name anything. (I suppose I could come up with an endonym for it
>> - it'd be something like 'Lesuy' (/lesuj/, /person-speak/) or something,
>> though that doesn't sound that great to my ears.)
>>
>> Phonologically, it's not that interesting - five vowels (/a i u e o/),
>> two stop series (/p t k/ and /p^(h) t^(h) k^(h)/, transcribed <b d g>
>> and <p t k>), /m n/ - the usual stuff. It only has one fricative series,
>> but it does distinguish /?/ and /s/ (for four total, /f ? s x/). /w j ?
>> l/ round out the inventory.
>> Syllable structure is (C)(G)V(G)(C), where <G> is a glide. /uw ij/ are
>> disallowed, and maximal CGVGC syllables are very rare. Affixes have no
>> shape target - anything from V to a maximal syllable is in theory
>> permitted. Length is kind of phonemic on consonants (really, a 'long
>> consonant' is just two adjacent identical consonants - /alla/ 'day' is
>> VC.CV, not V.C?V), not on vowels - any sequences of two identical vowels
>> are shrunk into one (e.g. /emnira/, 'girl', from /emni/ 'woman' + /ira/
>> 'child'). /i/ and /u/ become glides when adjacent to other vowels (e.g.
>> /dorayra/ 'boy', from /dora /'man' + /ira/). Aspiration isn't
>> distinguished in codas. There's not much else in the way of phonological
>> rules/alternations, at the moment this is the idealised pre-protolang
>> stage, and I'll need to send it through some sound changes before I get
>> a good protolang by the technical definition.
>> Stress is noncontrastive - it occurs on the heaviest of the last three
>> syllables, defaulting to the antepenultimate when they're all equal
>> (so/魮ira, dorṲa,////dal鳩se (do-person-COP-ATT)/, etc.)/./
>>
>> Grammatically, it's agglutinative and erg-abs. The two basic word
>> classes are noun and verb (all 'adjectives' are just verbs, and at least
>> in the protolanguage all 'adverbs' are clearly nouns or nominalised
>> verbs marked with a non-core case). Word order is VSO when there's no
>> overt complementiser, and SOV when there is (so /fikol le/ 'the man has
>> gone', but /le/ /fikolti/ 'the fact that the man has gone').
>>
>> Verbs don't care about person, number, or tense, but there are 5 or 7
>> aspect markers (perfective/stative (null-marked), progressive, perfect,
>> expective, intentive(?), and hortative and imperative if you count them
>> - they're mutually exclusive with aspect). It has a number of 'mood'
>> markers: potential and permissive; volitive, suggestive, and
>> necessitive, and weak and strong expectation (weak is for 'I bet X is
>> the case' and strong is for 'X /has/ to be the case, I just know it').
>> Relative clauses are formed by using the attributive affix
>> /-se/:/fikolse le/ 'the man who has gone'. /-se/ doesn't specify the
>> role the modified noun would have in the clause, that's left up to
>> context (so typically you can only relativise obliques when the
>> subclause has all of its core arguments overtly specified). (This works
>> mostly like the Japanese rentaikei.)
>>
>> The only obligatory marking on nouns is case, but there's a number of
>> other potential affixes. Number is especially complex - specific
>> quantities are marked directly on the noun (so/lemofyethon/ 'twenty
>> people', it's base-8 so that breaks down as /le-mo-fye-thon/
>> 'person-8-2-4' for (2*8)+4 people), and there are also suffixes for
>> 'more than half (of a group)', 'less than half (of a group)', 'part (of
>> a unit)', and 'all (of a unit)'. These can be augmented by 'all' or
>> 'none', and further by 'the next' or 'the previous' (allowing for very
>> long sequences such as /lemofyethondawfag /'none of the last twenty
>> people'). Demonstratives are also noun suffixes (there's a two-way
>> distinction, 'this'/'that'), and an interrogative marker can slot in
>> here too (/lewos?/ 'who? / which person?').
>>
>> There are a good number of cases (it's kind of Finno-Ugric in this
>> regard :P) Beyond the erg and null-marked abs, there's two kinds of
>> genitives, possessive and categorical (for things like 'men of that
>> village', 'the strength of an ox', 'a sword of bronze' and so on), both
>> of which form verbs (so//'the man's cat' has to be /lenase nyawa/ with
>> -/se/, not */lena nyawa/ - /lena nyawa /is grammatical, but it would be
>> heard as 'the cat is the man's').
>> Locative cases are the following: inessive and exessive (both used for
>> general locatives, inessive for being within the boundaries of a place,
>> exessive for being near but outside the boundaries of a place or
>> object), superessive and subessive, proessive ('in front of') and
>> postessive ('behind'), comitative, allative (also used as a dative) and
>> ablative (also used as the agent of causatives and volitives), illative
>> and ellative, superlative ('going over') and sublative ('going under'),
>> circumlative/circumessive, and adspective ('facing') and abspective
>> ('facing away from').
>> Non-locative cases are benefactive (also used for the experiencer with a
>> number of perception verbs - 'see' for example has a BEN subject when
>> you would expect ERG, and giving it an ERG subject changes the meaning
>> to 'look at'), instrumental, causative, and comparative.
>> Copular constructions are formed by affixing the copular verbaliser
>> /-si/ to nouns - /dorasi le/ 'the person is a man'. This allows for a
>> somewhat idiosyncratic way to express motion - while it's perfectly
>> grammatical to say /fyokh ne sakhtasoy /(/go-PROG 1-ABS river-ALL,
>> /literally 'I am going to the river'), it's much more native-sounding to
>> say /sakhtasoysi ne/ (/river-ALL-COP 1-ABS, /literally 'I am to the river').
>>
>> Beyond three generic 'pronouns' (1st person exclusive and inclusive and
>> 2nd person), there's not much in the way of real pronouns - nouns can be
>> used with any person as their referent, and typical non-personal
>> pronouny things are done with nouns plus suffixes (so 'who' is just
>> /lewos /(/person-INT/), literally 'which person'). There is a set of
>> 'generic nouns', though, which are basically nouns that refer to quite
>> large categories of things - 'person', 'object', 'place', 'point in
>> time', 'state of being', 'piece', 'reason/cause', and 'action' make up
>> the set - and this allows for fairly conventionalised pronouns ('person'
>> can be 'him/her', 'object' can be 'it', 'place' plus the near
>> demonstrative can be 'here', and so on). These nouns are further
>> distinguished from other nouns by being used as nominaliser suffixes -
>> so /ub/, the generic for 'reason/cause', combines with /ryukol /'has
>> died' to make /ryukolub/ 'the reason [the subj] died'.
>> There are also two generic verbs, meaning something like 'to do (it)'
>> and 'to go (there)'. They can also be used as nominalisers (somewhat
>> ironically :P), meaning 'method' and 'process', respectively.
>>
>> There's a few other small details here and there (I've left out
>> valence-change affixes, for example), but that's a basic overview of the
>> language. The goal is realism (indeed, all else is secondary), so some
>> comments in regards to how realistic these systems are would be
>> appreciated! I've got a few ideas on where to go with it from here, but
>> if anyone has any ideas I'd be happy to hear them.
>>
>> This is my main conlang project, but I'm also working on a set of
>> condialects of Japanese (splitting off at various points after around
>> 1610?), and I'd be happy to describe them if anyone's interested. (It's
>> gotten to the point where I'll slip into my primary condialect every
>> once in a while while thinking in Japanese, even when I'm not explicitly
>> trying to think in it :P)
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
1c. Re: Hello, and language sketch.
Posted by: "Aodhán Aannestad" tolkien_fr...@aannestad.com
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:50 pm ((PDT))
On 6/24/2013 1:16 PM, neo gu wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Jun 2013 23:28:43 -0500, Aodhán Aannestad
> <tolkien_fr...@aannestad.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello! I'm a longtime lurker, finally deciding to get involved a little.
>> Some of you may have met me at the last LCC, I'm with UT Austin's
>> conlang club and I drove some people around. I've been conlanging on and
>> off for quite some time now, but I don't have much to show for it - I
>> tend to be singlemindedly focused on realism, and as my level of
>> linguistics knowledge has increased I've scrapped and restarted on
>> several occasions due to realising how horribly unrealistic of a
>> language I'd created. This is kind of the latest iteration of that
>> cycle, and as I'm done with all the core undergrad ling classes now
>> hopefully I've run out of major things to learn and it'll prove to be
>> the last.
> Welcome to active participation!
>
> I'm not one of the experts on naturalistic conlanging, but I do have one
> comment: one of your fricatives is showing up as a /?/ in the archives; also,
> /w j ? l/.
>
> --
> Jeff Jones
Oh, yeah, the email got messed up because for whatever reason my editor
is a weird mix of HTML and WYSIWYG. Those are supposed to be what's /T/
and /4/ in X-SAMPA.
>
>> Anyway, on to the language. It doesn't have a name yet, sadly - I'm
>> using it for a protolang for a large project, and since said large
>> project has yet to really begin, it's not really in a state where I can
>> really name anything. (I suppose I could come up with an endonym for it
>> - it'd be something like 'Lesuy' (/lesuj/, /person-speak/) or something,
>> though that doesn't sound that great to my ears.)
>>
>> Phonologically, it's not that interesting - five vowels (/a i u e o/),
>> two stop series (/p t k/ and /p^(h) t^(h) k^(h)/, transcribed <b d g>
>> and <p t k>), /m n/ - the usual stuff. It only has one fricative series,
>> but it does distinguish /?/ and /s/ (for four total, /f ? s x/). /w j ?
>> l/ round out the inventory.
>> Syllable structure is (C)(G)V(G)(C), where <G> is a glide. /uw ij/ are
>> disallowed, and maximal CGVGC syllables are very rare. Affixes have no
>> shape target - anything from V to a maximal syllable is in theory
>> permitted. Length is kind of phonemic on consonants (really, a 'long
>> consonant' is just two adjacent identical consonants - /alla/ 'day' is
>> VC.CV, not V.C?V), not on vowels - any sequences of two identical vowels
>> are shrunk into one (e.g. /emnira/, 'girl', from /emni/ 'woman' + /ira/
>> 'child'). /i/ and /u/ become glides when adjacent to other vowels (e.g.
>> /dorayra/ 'boy', from /dora /'man' + /ira/). Aspiration isn't
>> distinguished in codas. There's not much else in the way of phonological
>> rules/alternations, at the moment this is the idealised pre-protolang
>> stage, and I'll need to send it through some sound changes before I get
>> a good protolang by the technical definition.
>> Stress is noncontrastive - it occurs on the heaviest of the last three
>> syllables, defaulting to the antepenultimate when they're all equal
>> (so/魮ira, dorṲa,////dal鳩se (do-person-COP-ATT)/, etc.)/./
>>
>> Grammatically, it's agglutinative and erg-abs. The two basic word
>> classes are noun and verb (all 'adjectives' are just verbs, and at least
>> in the protolanguage all 'adverbs' are clearly nouns or nominalised
>> verbs marked with a non-core case). Word order is VSO when there's no
>> overt complementiser, and SOV when there is (so /fikol le/ 'the man has
>> gone', but /le/ /fikolti/ 'the fact that the man has gone').
>>
>> Verbs don't care about person, number, or tense, but there are 5 or 7
>> aspect markers (perfective/stative (null-marked), progressive, perfect,
>> expective, intentive(?), and hortative and imperative if you count them
>> - they're mutually exclusive with aspect). It has a number of 'mood'
>> markers: potential and permissive; volitive, suggestive, and
>> necessitive, and weak and strong expectation (weak is for 'I bet X is
>> the case' and strong is for 'X /has/ to be the case, I just know it').
>> Relative clauses are formed by using the attributive affix
>> /-se/:/fikolse le/ 'the man who has gone'. /-se/ doesn't specify the
>> role the modified noun would have in the clause, that's left up to
>> context (so typically you can only relativise obliques when the
>> subclause has all of its core arguments overtly specified). (This works
>> mostly like the Japanese rentaikei.)
>>
>> The only obligatory marking on nouns is case, but there's a number of
>> other potential affixes. Number is especially complex - specific
>> quantities are marked directly on the noun (so/lemofyethon/ 'twenty
>> people', it's base-8 so that breaks down as /le-mo-fye-thon/
>> 'person-8-2-4' for (2*8)+4 people), and there are also suffixes for
>> 'more than half (of a group)', 'less than half (of a group)', 'part (of
>> a unit)', and 'all (of a unit)'. These can be augmented by 'all' or
>> 'none', and further by 'the next' or 'the previous' (allowing for very
>> long sequences such as /lemofyethondawfag /'none of the last twenty
>> people'). Demonstratives are also noun suffixes (there's a two-way
>> distinction, 'this'/'that'), and an interrogative marker can slot in
>> here too (/lewos?/ 'who? / which person?').
>>
>> There are a good number of cases (it's kind of Finno-Ugric in this
>> regard :P) Beyond the erg and null-marked abs, there's two kinds of
>> genitives, possessive and categorical (for things like 'men of that
>> village', 'the strength of an ox', 'a sword of bronze' and so on), both
>> of which form verbs (so//'the man's cat' has to be /lenase nyawa/ with
>> -/se/, not */lena nyawa/ - /lena nyawa /is grammatical, but it would be
>> heard as 'the cat is the man's').
>> Locative cases are the following: inessive and exessive (both used for
>> general locatives, inessive for being within the boundaries of a place,
>> exessive for being near but outside the boundaries of a place or
>> object), superessive and subessive, proessive ('in front of') and
>> postessive ('behind'), comitative, allative (also used as a dative) and
>> ablative (also used as the agent of causatives and volitives), illative
>> and ellative, superlative ('going over') and sublative ('going under'),
>> circumlative/circumessive, and adspective ('facing') and abspective
>> ('facing away from').
>> Non-locative cases are benefactive (also used for the experiencer with a
>> number of perception verbs - 'see' for example has a BEN subject when
>> you would expect ERG, and giving it an ERG subject changes the meaning
>> to 'look at'), instrumental, causative, and comparative.
>> Copular constructions are formed by affixing the copular verbaliser
>> /-si/ to nouns - /dorasi le/ 'the person is a man'. This allows for a
>> somewhat idiosyncratic way to express motion - while it's perfectly
>> grammatical to say /fyokh ne sakhtasoy /(/go-PROG 1-ABS river-ALL,
>> /literally 'I am going to the river'), it's much more native-sounding to
>> say /sakhtasoysi ne/ (/river-ALL-COP 1-ABS, /literally 'I am to the river').
>>
>> Beyond three generic 'pronouns' (1st person exclusive and inclusive and
>> 2nd person), there's not much in the way of real pronouns - nouns can be
>> used with any person as their referent, and typical non-personal
>> pronouny things are done with nouns plus suffixes (so 'who' is just
>> /lewos /(/person-INT/), literally 'which person'). There is a set of
>> 'generic nouns', though, which are basically nouns that refer to quite
>> large categories of things - 'person', 'object', 'place', 'point in
>> time', 'state of being', 'piece', 'reason/cause', and 'action' make up
>> the set - and this allows for fairly conventionalised pronouns ('person'
>> can be 'him/her', 'object' can be 'it', 'place' plus the near
>> demonstrative can be 'here', and so on). These nouns are further
>> distinguished from other nouns by being used as nominaliser suffixes -
>> so /ub/, the generic for 'reason/cause', combines with /ryukol /'has
>> died' to make /ryukolub/ 'the reason [the subj] died'.
>> There are also two generic verbs, meaning something like 'to do (it)'
>> and 'to go (there)'. They can also be used as nominalisers (somewhat
>> ironically :P), meaning 'method' and 'process', respectively.
>>
>> There's a few other small details here and there (I've left out
>> valence-change affixes, for example), but that's a basic overview of the
>> language. The goal is realism (indeed, all else is secondary), so some
>> comments in regards to how realistic these systems are would be
>> appreciated! I've got a few ideas on where to go with it from here, but
>> if anyone has any ideas I'd be happy to hear them.
>>
>> This is my main conlang project, but I'm also working on a set of
>> condialects of Japanese (splitting off at various points after around
>> 1610?), and I'd be happy to describe them if anyone's interested. (It's
>> gotten to the point where I'll slip into my primary condialect every
>> once in a while while thinking in Japanese, even when I'm not explicitly
>> trying to think in it :P)
Messages in this topic (4)
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________________________________________________________________________
2a. Re: Animal Noises?
Posted by: "Adam Walker" carra...@gmail.com
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:19 am ((PDT))
Carrajina has a few. Ii-au is a donkey's sound or an Englishman speaking.
Fiufiu-tuidtuid is a bird chirping or a Florentine speaking. I know I
have others, but I can't recall them off the top of my head
Adam
On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Scar Cvxni <jeviscac...@gmail.com> wrote:
> How many of your conlangs have animal noises? Do you have specific animal
> species in the worlds your languages inhabit as well?
>
> I've just found my old notes for one of my conlangs, called Yuun.
>
> Animals are kept in an area called "Maab kihaa", or "Place of livestock",
> and they all have different sounds, e.g.
>
> sheep - dêêêêêê
> a certain type of local bird - reeeeca
> lizards - tetetetete
>
> etc. I'm toying with the idea of writing a couple of children's books in
> Yuun, just for fun.
>
Messages in this topic (9)
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2b. Re: Animal Noises?
Posted by: "Roger Mills" romi...@yahoo.com
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:17 pm ((PDT))
The various saurians of Cindu have noises-- mostly transcribed as _cik, cek,
cak, cok, cuk_ depending on the size of the animal in question.
The lopa (sheep/goat-like) bleat-- that's _eñe_ It's also used of a
child/person wheedling for something...
The various great cats, as well and Kash people, can roar--- ñar
That's about it for now.....
Messages in this topic (9)
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2c. Re: Animal Noises?
Posted by: "C. Brickner" tepeyach...@embarqmail.com
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:37 pm ((PDT))
----- Original Message -----
How many of your conlangs have animal noises? Do you have specific animal
species in the worlds your languages inhabit as well?
========================
In Senjecas there is:
baaba, i.v. bleat.
gaɱa, i.v. squawk, caw
ĸeĸeĸű, onom. cock-a-doodle-doo
ĸ̌aĸa, i.v. quack
laaa, i.v. bark
muga, i.v. moo, low. (PIE *mug-, moo > Sp. mugir, low)
peena, i.v. purr
piipa, i.v. chirp, cheep, peep, twitter
reeta, 1) t.v. roar. 2) i.v. roar
Charlie
Messages in this topic (9)
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2d. Re: Animal Noises?
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" elemti...@yahoo.com
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:57 pm ((PDT))
> From: Scar Cvxni <jeviscac...@gmail.com>
>
> How many of your conlangs have animal noises? Do you have specific animal
> species in the worlds your languages inhabit as well?
I suppose all my conlangs have (virtual) animal noise words, if not actually
discovered animal noise words. That is, the Teleranians keep cattle, and
presumably the cows of the World low as do cows *here*, so I would
therefore surmise that Talarian speakers have a word (or perhaps several)
words for the sounds made by cows. I just don't know what those words
are!
On the other hand, the phonology of Gôtlandish is made up entirely of animal
noises.
Or rather, sounds pronounceable by, in this case, goats.
> I'm toying with the idea of writing a couple of children's books in Yuun,
> just for fun.
Go for it!
Padraic
Messages in this topic (9)
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2e. Re: Animal Noises?
Posted by: "Scar Cvxni" jeviscac...@gmail.com
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:10 pm ((PDT))
Gôtlandish sounds fascinating! I can't even begin to imagine the specific
difficulties surrounding a language that's pronounceable by animals.
On 25 June 2013 02:57, Padraic Brown <elemti...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> > From: Scar Cvxni <jeviscac...@gmail.com>
>
> >
> > How many of your conlangs have animal noises? Do you have specific animal
> > species in the worlds your languages inhabit as well?
>
> I suppose all my conlangs have (virtual) animal noise words, if not
> actually
> discovered animal noise words. That is, the Teleranians keep cattle, and
> presumably the cows of the World low as do cows *here*, so I would
> therefore surmise that Talarian speakers have a word (or perhaps several)
> words for the sounds made by cows. I just don't know what those words
> are!
>
> On the other hand, the phonology of Gôtlandish is made up entirely of
> animal noises.
> Or rather, sounds pronounceable by, in this case, goats.
>
> > I'm toying with the idea of writing a couple of children's books in
> Yuun, just for fun.
>
> Go for it!
>
> Padraic
>
Messages in this topic (9)
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2f. Re: Animal Noises?
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" elemti...@yahoo.com
Date: Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:51 am ((PDT))
> From: Adam Walker carra...@gmail.com
> Carrajina has a few. Ii-au is a donkey's sound or an Englishman speaking.
> Fiufiu-tuidtuid is a bird chirping or a Florentine speaking. I know I
> have others, but I can't recall them off the top of my head
Heh. I like how a particular animal sound is paired with a foreign language!
Very realistic that. Is there any sort of plan involved? In other words, do
folks think that Englishmen in general are asses and Florentines are flighty
like birds? Are there any positive animal / foreign language comparisons?
Do they characterise Carrajina in like fashion (though undoubtedly with a
more positive animal)?
Padraic
> Adam
Messages in this topic (9)
________________________________________________________________________
2g. Re: Animal Noises?
Posted by: "Douglas Koller" douglaskol...@hotmail.com
Date: Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:33 am ((PDT))
> Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 19:37:42 -0400
> From: tepeyach...@embarqmail.com
> Subject: Re: Animal Noises?
> To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
> ----- Original Message -----
> How many of your conlangs have animal noises? Do you have specific animal
> species in the worlds your languages inhabit as well?
> ========================
> In Senjecas there is:
> baaba, i.v. bleat
Géarthnuns: mnehen
> laaa, i.v. bark
vokh
> muga, i.v. moo, low
émnul
> peena, i.v. purr
vurun
> piipa, i.v. chirp, cheep, peep, twitter
tsíman (as a sound, it's "tsí, tsí, tsí")
> reeta, 1) t.v. roar. 2) i.v. roar
bmaukh
Coulda sworn I had "caw", and thought possibly "meow", but no.
Kou
Messages in this topic (9)
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3a. Re: Fwd: writing (almost) entirely in lower-case letters
Posted by: "Zach Wellstood" zwellst...@gmail.com
Date: Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:45 pm ((PDT))
On Jun 24, 2013 10:35 PM, "G. van der Vegt" <gijsstri...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> (Onlist this time, didn't notice a reply-to was set.)
>
> > There is no reason to force the case conventions of English onto
another language just
> > because those conventions happen to convenient and familiar to English
readers! When
> > transcribing my own conlangs using Latin script, I dó in fact at times
use something
> > approaching an English mode of capitalisation -- as you say, it is
useful and convenient
> > and familiar. But I don't hold anyone else to following that same
practice; and I don't
> > even follow it consistently for all languages.
>
> I strongly disagree. The point of transliteration is to make things
> convenient and familiar to the users of the target orthography, and
> most (if not all) languages which have the Latin script as their
> native script use capitalization, and most of those capitalize the
> things English do (the main exceptions I know capitalize more, not
> less.)
I think this depends on the creator's intent so that whether or not you
follow capitalization conventions is a nonissue. In transliterating my
conlang, I'm not trying to cater to others, it's convenient for myself to
work with because it's what I know best. That being said, I understand the
minor degree of utility capitalization has but it does change the look of
the language. Deciding to disregard capitalization conventions hasn't
really had an affect at all on readability in my opinion, simply on
aesthetics.
Messages in this topic (3)
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3b. Re: Fwd: writing (almost) entirely in lower-case letters
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" elemti...@yahoo.com
Date: Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:48 am ((PDT))
> From: Zach Wellstood <zwellst...@gmail.com>
>
>> > There is no reason to force the case conventions of English onto
>> > another language just because those conventions happen to
>> > convenient and familiar to English readers!
>
>> I strongly disagree. The point of transliteration is to make things
>> convenient and familiar to the users of the target orthography, and
>> most (if not all) languages which have the Latin script as their
>> native script use capitalization, and most of those capitalize the
>> things English do (the main exceptions I know capitalize more, not
>> less.)
>
> I think this depends on the creator's intent so that whether or not you
> follow capitalization conventions is a nonissue. In transliterating my
> conlang, I'm not trying to cater to others, it's convenient for myself
> to work with because it's what I know best. That being said, I understand the
> minor degree of utility capitalization has but it does change the look of
> the language. Deciding to disregard capitalization conventions hasn't
> really had an affect at all on readability in my opinion, simply on
> aesthetics.
Very much what I was trying to say, though didn't word it half so well!
Padraic
Messages in this topic (3)
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