Thanks for the response Simon - don't get me wrong, I totally agree with
what we're doing here. I'm not questioning the project, goals, or methods.
I do think there is value in incremental chances on the other end of the
spectrum, I think if both succeed the more power to us, and I hope that
there is great success with GNUnet and look forward to being able to help
more hands-on later in the development cycle as the application level is
ready to be addressed.

Cheers
Nick

On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 1:07 AM, Simon Hirscher <[email protected]>wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 4:12 AM, Nick Jennings <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Because every project [again: I know
> >> of] is just paying attention to one or, at the maximum, two of those
> >> points and on the other hand makes it damn hard or simply impossible
> >> to solve those other two or three issues at the same time.
> >
> > I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. By trying to solve one or
> two
> > of the 4, it makes solving the other two harder?
>
> Not necessarily. What I meant was that projects tend to focus on one
> or two of those four points. In order to fulfill them, however, and
> also due to restricted resources (time, developers etc.) they neglect
> the other two – which, in turn, might indeed mean that they decide to
> use technologies that only enable them to solve a strict subset of
> those problems. Web technologies are a classic example – because you
> can't trust the certificate authorities, you're running 3rd party code
> all the time, and don't even get me started on cookies and the like.
>
> > To say that you can't, for instance, provide self-determined data storage
> > because there is a possibility it could be compromised, is like saying
> you
> > can't run an HTTP server because it could be hacked. There is value in
> > making things better, and giving users more autonomy, and working toward
> > better circumstances.
> >
> > […]
> >
> > You *can* provide self determined data storage *and at the same time* you
> > can further illustrate the remaining vulnerabilities.
> >
> > You *can* provide a better method for point-to-point encryption *and at
> the
> > same time* point out the vulnerabilities in the existing DNS system.
> >
> > Yes, these things wont be perfect. But they *will* be better, and they
> > *will* be progress, and there will be less remaining problems to address,
> > which will be highlighted more so, because solving some problems can
> improve
> > clarity of remaining problems to a larger audience.
>
> Agreed, there is value in making things better. But I'm here for the
> solution to *all four* of our problems. Why? Because…
>
> 1.) It's within our reach and I hate to settle with anything less than
> what's possible.
>
> 2.) We are facing the biggest adversary one could possibly imagine:
> The NSA. (Also: other intelligence agencies and some huge companies'
> CEOs, all of which are having wet dreams about big data). With respect
> to their resources, "better" and "some progress" is just not good
> enough.
>
> 3.) We, the SocialSwarm, set out to create an actual alternative to
> Faceboogle – for the masses. That however means that we only have one
> single shot to get it right. People won't follow us from one platform
> to another, more secure one every year.
>
> On a similar note:
> I'm actually a bit surprised that there are people on this list
> complaining about those four requirements. If they really wanted to be
> a part of the SocialSwarm initiative and help with creating a secure
> Faceboogle alternative that's actually ready for mass adoption, I
> wonder what they were thinking this was going to take? A bit of HTML
> thrown onto some web server? No offense guys (and sorry for the harsh
> and probably even unjustified words). If you're not down, that's
> absolutely fine. Keep doing what you're doing. Because, as Nick said,
> there IS value in making things better!
>
> As for me, I think this is going to be my last post on this topic for
> the time being. Everything's been discussed extensively, now, and I
> should better invest my time in finally finishing reading tg's paper
> on the GNUnet/PSYC/secushare API.
>

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