I wrote more about my experience with dropping out:
https://www.jefftk.com/p/lessons-from-dropping-out

On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 9:13 AM Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers <
[email protected]> wrote:

> "We do do a lot of talking at our dances, with so many beginners each time
> we basically never stop calling (or maybe we let people muddle through
> without calls for the very last time through some dances - but I assure
> you, many people falter without the instruction!)"
>
> I suspect that the reason things fall apart without calling is that people
> are used to always having calling. Removing calling for one time through
> the dance doesn't work well because it's abrupt and all-or-nothing.
>
> Learning how to drop out gradually can get you and your dancers to a place
> where you don't need to call the whole dance and where the dancers don't
> feel like that calling is needed. This goes something like:
>
> * Start with your standard full calls
>
> * After a time or so through the dance, use shorter versions of the calls
> ("long lines" and not "long lines forwards and back"). Still have the calls
> end right before the next figure. This means they have less time from the
> call until the figure, and so practice anticipating the next figure.
>
> * Continue using shorter and shorter calls ("lines")
>
> * Leave out calls when it's pretty obvious and/or there's lots of catch-up
> time. If the dance has a pass through, balance, and swing then you can
> start leaving out the "swing" call because most people will learn quickly
> that it follows the balance, and anyone who forgets has plenty of time to
> look around them and figure it out. Then you can start leaving out the
> "balance" because that will seem natural to the dancers after the pass
> through.
>
> * Pay attention to where the dancers are getting confused, and support the
> tricky parts of the dance. If it's sometimes circle and swing, and other
> times circle and pass through, call the swing/pass longer because it's hard
> to remember.
>
> If the dancers always have everything prompted for them, they don't learn
> the choreography.
>
> Jeff
>
> On Tue, Mar 3, 2020, 8:13 AM Katherine Kitching via Contra Callers <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [Callers] Re: actual timing of calls for hey for four
>> Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2020 14:23:10 -0400
>> From: Katherine Kitching <[email protected]> <[email protected]>
>> To: [email protected]
>>
>> Hi all, wanted to thank everyone for all the super varied/interesting and
>> helpful feedback and suggestions!
>>
>> I also wanted to report that my first Hey went very well on Saturday
>> night.
>>
>> What I ended up doing was creating 2 "practice lines" in the centre of
>> our big teaching circle (I always teach new figures in a big circle) -
>> which each had 3 people set up in a line with generous space between, and
>> first  I walked through one of those lines myself starting first from the
>> middle, to demo how the Raven would proceed, and then from one end to show
>> how the Lark would proceed -- both to 16 counts -- showing how I passed the
>> person in the middle by the right shoulder and the people on the ends by
>> the left shoulder, and explaining how in reality everyone is moving so
>> there won't actually be a person to walk around at the ends, but looping
>> around that stationary person in the practice line gives you a feel for how
>> to do the figure.
>>
>> Then I brought in a fourth person into the practice line and actually got
>> everyone to move at once, to demo how the Hey works (which blew the new
>> people's minds, they were laughing at how complicated it looked compared to
>> when 3 of the four people had been standing still)
>>
>> Then I offered those who had never done a hey before the chance to try it
>> with the other 3 ppl being stationary, encouraging Ravens to try from the
>> middle and Larks to try from an end, to simulate what they'd be
>> experiencing in the dance...
>>
>> So that was neat, cause those who wanted to try got to try, and those who
>> are visual learners and felt that they got the concept just from my demo,
>> along with those who have already done a hey before, didn't have to do
>> it....  - and having two practice lines sped things up and took attention
>> off everyone just watching one person (I may actually do 3 practice lines
>> in the future!)
>>
>> Then when everyone got into their contra lines and we got to the Hey part
>> in the walk through (after a Raven's chain)  I used the patter that you all
>> gave feedback on for a couple of walkthroughs... (but also emphasized that
>> you could mess up the weaving all you wanted to, and it didn't matter as
>> long as you got back to your partner for a bal and swing at the end of the
>> 16 counts - that was probably the most helpful thing for people to grasp).
>>
>> It looked a bit rough during the walkthroughs but everyone indeed made it
>> back "home" on time for the swing, and then as the dance progressed
>> everyone nailed it eventually.
>>
>> During the dance I used parts of the patter sometimes, but by the end
>> just said "into the Hey!" and it was all good.
>>
>> I enjoy that patter though - like I said our previous caller did it and
>> it has a nice feel to it.  I got confirmation from our old caller that he
>> did the patter concurrently with each sub-figure of they hey, rather
>> than preceding them.
>> We do do a lot of talking at our dances, with so many beginners each time
>> we basically never stop calling (or maybe we let people muddle through
>> without calls for the very last time through some dances - but I assure
>> you, many people falter without the instruction!) -- anyhow I think our
>> group is pretty used to dancing with lots of verbiage accompanying the
>> music, for better or for worse :)
>>
>> - thanks again!!
>> Learned a lot from all you wrote, and I may try Diane's approach below in
>> the future!!
>> Also loved the idea that just came in this morning to say "pass right
>> with nobody" at the ends, to give an idea of how to walk that final loop...
>> Kat in Halifax
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Diane Silver via Contra Callers wrote on 2/28/2020 3:15 PM:
>>
>> Like Erik, I emphasize the loop-around as a critical part of the move.
>> Presuming the preceding move is an 8-count move and there's no short
>> 4-count move that needs to be called, I use the entire preceding 8 beats to
>> prompt the start of the hey before it needs to happen.  I call the general
>> move "Hey for four" and also pre-call the descriptive details for how it
>> starts. (I teach the hey emphasizing that as the Robins start passing
>> right, the Larks' first move is to slide over into the right-hand position,
>> and then they'll follow the Robin through the weaving (and of course,
>> vice-versa if it's a left-shoulder hey)).  Then I continue to pre-call each
>> piece of the hey while the preceding piece is taking place, in 4-count
>> chunks.  Feels like patter calling because there's no stopping:
>>
>> *CAPital letters indicate calling on the downbeat, with emphasis.
>> lower-case calls are like pick-up notes for the following downbeat:*
>>
>>
>>
>> Starting the call way back on beat 9 of the preceding part does not seem
>> to be a problem for the dancers.  They finish the move they're doing (often
>> swinging) and the extra thinking time helps them end that move and face
>> across to start the hey on time.  I've never had anyone start the hey early
>> because the beginning of the call came so early.
>>
>> -- Diane
>>
>> On 2/28/2020 1:30 PM, Erik Hoffman via Contra Callers wrote:
>>
>> One of the problems with calling heys and this type of timing is the *
>> *WHILE** problem:
>>
>>    While a pair is passing in the middle, someone is looping at the end—a
>> sort of “ghost” pass. New dancers often abruptly about-face actually
>> cutting off the path of the next person they’re supposed to pass, and often
>> try to pass with the “other” shoulder.
>>
>>    Here’s the Robins (we’ve switched) as the Larks:
>>
>>                 Robins             WHILE             Larks
>>
>>         Robins pass Right                    Larks Loop Left (often
>> replaced by a “pause”)
>>
>> Robins pass Larks by Left         Larks pass Robins by Left
>>
>> Robins Loop Left                       Larks pass Right
>>
>> Robins pass Larks by Left         Larks pass Robins by left
>>
>> Robins pass Right                    Larks Loop Left
>>
>> Robins pass Larks by Left         Larks pass Robins by left
>>
>> Robins Loop Left                       Larks pass by Right
>>
>>
>>
>> Again, it’s that X Passes while Y Loops that often leads to problems.
>> Thus, if the teaching didn’t click, when I notice this problem as I watch
>> the problems dancers have I might start calling to those dancers who are
>> doing the “about-face” and call “Loop to the Left (or right) to pass Left
>> (right) Again.”
>>
>>
>>
>> Erik Hoffman
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers
>> <[email protected]>
>> <[email protected]>
>> *Sent:* Friday, February 28, 2020 6:50 AM
>> *To:* Katherine Kitching <[email protected]>
>> <[email protected]>
>> *Cc:* [email protected]
>> *Subject:* [Callers] Re: actual timing of calls for hey for four
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't think there's anything special about they hey: always cue things
>> so that they start on the beat after you finish speaking.
>>
>>
>>
>> You might find "ravens left" etc works better than "ravens pass left",
>> being shorter.  Otherwise it's hard to get all the words out.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 6:06 AM Katherine Kitching via Contra Callers <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> hello - first time posting to this list so i'm sorry if I do it wrong
>> (looked in archives and couldn't see obvious answer)
>>
>>
>>
>>  I am going to teach and call my first dance with a hey this Saturday..
>> (ie tomorrow)
>>
>>
>>
>> our group takes things slow so i'd like to cue every interaction for the
>> first few times, as our previous caller did.... I don't know how common
>> this is but our previous caller would actually say--
>>
>>
>>
>>  ravens pass right
>>
>> neighbours pass left
>>
>> larks pass right
>>
>> partners left
>>
>> ravens pass right
>>
>> neighbours pass left
>>
>> larks pass right
>>
>>  partner balance and swing
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm wondering if someone can clarify for me about delivering the calls
>> for this hey....normally of course I deliver instructions so the last bit
>> of instruction ends on the beat prior to the figure starting.
>>
>>
>>
>> But in the case of the Hey, if I remember correctly the caller actually
>> called out  the actions *as* they were happening....
>>
>>
>>
>> Am I remembering correctly and if so is this the best approach?
>>
>>
>>
>> In essence-- do I start by calling "ravens pass right" *just before*
>> they do it, or *while* they are doing it?
>>
>>
>>
>> thanks muchly :)
>>
>>
>>
>> Katherine Kitching in Hfx NS Canada
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- [email protected]
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> [email protected]
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- [email protected]
>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- [email protected]
>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Contra Callers mailing list -- [email protected]
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> [email protected]
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Contra Callers mailing list -- [email protected]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
>
_______________________________________________
Contra Callers mailing list -- [email protected]
To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]

Reply via email to