fredagen den 5 september 2003 10.31 skrev Michael Scherer:
> On Friday 05 September 2003 06:10, [ben] wrote:
> > I was talking about the sever/client interoperability.  For that they
> > as a matter of policy only guarantee compatability between one major
> > revision back (e.g. .27 will be compatable with .26 but .28 will not
> > necessarily be guaranteed).
>
> ye, and this means that a 9.1 server is still copatible with a 9.1
> client.
>
> > You can find their policy at:
> > http://subversion.tigris.org/project_faq.html#interop
> >
> > I was thinking this applied to the schema format but apparently they
> > don't apply it to that.
>
> yes, this is clearly stated in the FAQ :
>
> The repository db schema is stable now and should only undergo one more
> major change before 1.0. These migrations have happened before, and we
> already have dump/load utilities available to aid you in the migration.
>
> > However, because of this policy and
> > subversions instability we should encourage people to do dump/load at
> > upgrade time everytime.
>
> i didn't say that people should not be encouraged to do this, but, if we
> can help them, then we should.
>
> > This is all the better reason to urge people to use svnadmin dump
> > *BEFORE* upgrading.  Always doing a svnadmin dump before an upgrade
> > and a svnadmin load after, will always avoid issues like this.
> >
> > My point is including an old svnadmin is only a solution for this
> > particular issue.
>
> I think that having a solution is better than having nothing.
> If it can help 50% of people, it is better than nothing.
> And, having a solution does not prevent us to warn people.
> In fact, you can patch svnadmin to display the messages if you want. or
> wrap it in a shell script that does everything.
>
> > Doing the dump before an upgrade and a load after
> > is the only reliable way to ensure a good clean upgrade.  It's
> > unreasonable to carry around dozens of old svnadmin versions to help
> > people upgrading to deal with specific issues...
>
> dozen of old svnadmin. Do you really think that subversion people are
> insane ?
> They use their own software, and they will not break it every month.
>
> The project changed only once in a way that break everything since the
> beginning, in 2 years.
>
> we will need a dozen of svnadmin in 24 years, if they keep the same rate
> of breakage. I guess that subversion will be stable in 2 years, so,
> unless they break for fun, we will never have dozen of old binary.
> Please stop exagerating in order to convince people.
>
> i do not suggest to have it for years, only to help the upgrade from the
> current mandrake release, ie 9.1.
>
> > IMHO the 0.27
> > svnadmin should be removed from the package.  I understand it helped
> > you get out of a sticky situation, but having it implies that we'll
> > provide that sort of thing in the future.
>
> yes, it helped me. and it should not help other people ?
> what will be the avantage of not helping people ?
>
> forcing them to learn the hard way and to lose time, because it will be
> good for them.
> what will people learn with this ?
>
> that they should not use subversion, because they break thing ?
>
> they should not use mandrake because someone didn't want to ship a
> simple solution ?
>
>
> openldap2.1 changed the way it handle the schema, but, buchan tried to
> provides some migration script. I am sure it will help lot of people.
> This is *our* job to provide smooth upgrade.
>
> > The problem is they can choose to change the schema anytime they
> > want. Do we carry a svnadmin version for every schema version?
>
> I do not think that subversion project is going to change schema every
> month. This break too much thing for being done.
>
> I do not say we should ensure a upgrade from any release to any release.
> but from the 9.1 to 9.2.
>
> > I didn't intend it to be the only message.  Just an extra notice...
> > I figure most people using subversion as a server are likely to be
> > using urpmi not rpmdrake...
>
> even if they do not use rpmdrake, they can miss the message.
> and what is the message good for ?
> I upgrade subversion, and it will say :
>
> "oh, you should have dumped before upgrading, sorry, that's too bad."
> and what will i do ?
>
> i will recompile from source.
>
> People will not blame mandrake for the error, but, if we provides them
> with a solution, they will appreciate the effort. Now, of course, you
> can do nothing. Maybe they will switch to a distro that care for them
> and try to make their life easier.
>
> And, if we provides this only for the release, we can drop it once
> cooker is unfrozen, if you think it would take too much time to
> maintain it. i just want to ensure that people using subversion will
> have a easier path for upgrading.


Well said Michael. I don't want to have endless discussions about this, I 
realized the problem and I just f*cking fixed it. Until the subversion code 
can handle upgrades we need to provide a solution (as mandrake allways do), 
otherwise we can just dump this software.

Please note that I added this text in the description to my latest (my last?) 
packages, relevant to the corresponding subpackage(s):

"NOTE: Make sure to read:
/usr/share/doc/subversion-repos-0.28.1/repos_upgrade_HOWTO

And use the /usr/bin/svnadmin-0.27 binary when migrating."

People will read the description I presume, a %post message is easily lost.

-- 
Regards // Oden Eriksson, Deserve-IT.com

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