Am 21.03.2017 um 17:27 schrieb Mike Hodson: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: "Mike Hodson" <[email protected]> > Date: Mar 21, 2017 12:26 PM > Subject: Re: "full" man pages, please? > To: "Bernhard Voelker" <[email protected]> > Cc: > > I third this, and have mentioned it in the past at least once if not more > than... > > Why is it so hard to textdump _both_ --help _and_ the texinfo _into a > manpage_?!?! > > We need one single source of all information. Not 1 half useful one which I > can get from --help _anyway_ but it is incomplete, and another complete one > that requires more tooling to properly view and has been impossible for me > in my 20 years of using Linux to understand how to navigate.
I wrote man pages, and in the beginning also info pages, for the tools I programmed for my users. My experience was: it's quite easy to navigate inside the info tree when you are aware of its structure. Most likely, as you programmed it yourself. But in other info pages I got lost too often: is it the next next node on the same level or in the document? Looking for the option "maxdepth" in `info find`: do I have to use "i" or "s"? Not to mention that curly braces to search forth and back need (again) a modifier key on a German keyboard. I understand that it might be easier to navigate inside the document with an US keyboard. -- Reuti > This is a bug if people take time out of their day to explain why it is not > useful. > > If your only answer is to just use texinfo, you are being blinded by > historical 'the way it is stupidity when the public is definitely not > satisfied with the answer. > > Mike > > On Mar 21, 2017 11:55 AM, "Bernhard Voelker" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > On 03/21/2017 09:24 AM, Harald Dunkel wrote: >> Hi folks, >> >> I highly appreciate your work to provide excellent tools for >> decades. >> >> There is one thing I would like to ask for, though: Would you >> mind to support "full" man pages instead of the "full-docu-can- >> be-found-in-info-or-on-the-web-only" pages (e.g. dd(1), cpio(1))? >> >> Advantages: >> >> - no break in your regular workflow, regardless on which >> unix-like system you are logged in or which man page you >> try to access >> >> - no page breaks, but full documentation on a single page. >> Its very easy to navigate. >> >> - focused on providing the information. The user interface >> is provided by more or less, common to other tools. >> >> I am not asking you to drop the info pages, of course, but IMHO >> keeping things simple and the DOTADIW approach should still be >> considered as a major feature of Unix-like systems. > > First of all, the Texinfo manual is the primary way for documentation > in GNU projects: > > https://www.gnu.org/prep/standards/html_node/GNU-Manuals.html#GNU-Manuals > > Second, maintaining the same as man pages is redundant work. > Therefore, we choose to generate the man pages from "--help" > output. > > https://www.gnu.org/prep/standards/html_node/Man-Pages.html > > Re. "nice" and "printouts" (mentioned by Reuti): what's wrong with > the HTML (one page or single node format), ASCII, DVI or PDF formats? > > https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/ > > So after all: while the advantages may be tempting, the effort to keep > texinfo and man in sync is too high for coreutils. > > Consider the mess in findutils: some information exists in the man page, > while other is in the Texinfo manual. Not useful either. > > Have a nice day, > Berny
