:-D On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 5:59 PM Arturo Montejo-Ráez <[email protected]> wrote:
> If Ada allows me, I will take this as an ending quote in every email I > wrote. > :-D > > > [image: Universidad de Jaén] <https://www.ujaen.es/> Arturo Montejo Ráez > Profesor Titular de Universidad | Associated Professor (Tenured) > [email protected] > > Universidad de Jaén > Departamento de Informática, A3-114 > Las Lagunillas s/n, 23071 - Jaén (Spain) > +34 953 212 882 > <https://www.ujaen.es/servicios/sinformatica/sites/servicio_sinformatica/files/piefirmacorreo4/index.html> > ORCID: http://orcid.org/0000-0002-8643-2714 > Researcher ID: D-3387-2009 > SINAI Research Group <https://sinai.ujaen.es> > > [image: Universidad de Jaén] <https://www.ujaen.es/> *Antes de imprimir > este mensaje, piense si es necesario. Proteger el medio ambiente es cosa de > todos.* > *** CLÁUSULA DE CONFIDENCIALIDAD *** > Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario y puede contener > información privilegiada o confidencial. Si no es Ud. el destinatario > indicado, queda notificado de que la utilización, divulgación o copia sin > autorización está prohibida en virtud de la legislación vigente. Si ha > recibido este mensaje por error, se ruega lo comunique inmediatamente por > esta misma vía y proceda a su destrucción. > > This message is intended exclusively for its recipient and may contain > information that is CONFIDENTIAL. If you are not the intended recipient you > are hereby notified that any dissemination, copy or disclosure of this > communication is strictly prohibited by law. If this message has been > received by mistake, please let us know immediately via e-mail and delete > it. > > > El mié, 26 jul 2023 a las 17:39, Ada Wan via Corpora (< > [email protected]>) escribió: > >> Re there is no grammar: this has been a perennial issue in CL/NLP. >> Different people have grown up with different relations to language. Some >> take some habits more seriously than others. Some give some habits more >> value/authority/status than they deserve, so they become rules. And some >> obey rules more than others, so rules get internalized and one ends up >> believing that there is something "magical" about language. (Some also try >> to exploit rules enough to make others' lives miserable --- this is how >> language/grammar can be used as a weapon [language attitudes]!). But all in >> all, we just communicate in whichever way we end up doing so. >> >> On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 5:15 PM Ada Wan <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Dear all >>> The primary reason I got onto this thread has to do with what I sensed >>> might be an attempt to promote certain methodology, one that direly needs >>> some re-evaluation, much like many other in the space of language and >>> computing (and/or CL/NLP, digital humanities... etc.). I know that many >>> practitioners in this space have computed using "words" as a representation >>> and therefore might have had many hypotheses as to what kinds of textual >>> relations is to behave how in the vector space etc., many might even have >>> related grammatical relations to certain spatial relations --- but what is >>> one to make of e.g. different grammatical relations having the same >>> statistical representations, or different statistical representations >>> having the same grammatical relations? And as any trained linguists could >>> inform one honestly, there is really no "grammar". There are no >>> "grammatical relations" that are "intrinsic" to language. >>> >>> @Peratham: many of the statements that you made don't really make sense >>> or lack clarity, if you think about them, e.g. "[t]ensor arrays are just ER >>> diagrams most of the time" --- this depends on the data and how it is being >>> represented. (I assume "ER" here refers to "entity relationship".) >>> Re "I don’t feel them as a very powerful framework for every system.": >>> the matter is not about having "a very powerful framework for every system" >>> but to understand the limit (and the lack and irrelevance) of "words" (esp. >>> in computing). >>> Re "And tensor methods do not protect lots of people living under >>> illegal and crime circumstances. This is probably off-topic but it is >>> possible for many people to be not protected by laws and polices. As you >>> may know.": I don't understand this statement of yours. Would you please >>> clarify? >>> >>> @Ibrtchx: >>> Re "characters, words, phrases, sentences, ... all the way to whole >>> books are always intra- and intertextually relational" --- I agree, except >>> for the inclusion of "words" and "sentences" as these are, at least, >>> obsolete, unreliable, and non-universal. We can do better in this regard. >>> Anything we examine can be relational, assuming we have established or >>> understood the connection. But note that the connection may be in us, >>> instead. >>> Re "being 'relational' has a measurably tractable meaning brought about >>> by the dot product in a vector space ;-)": this depends. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 4:00 AM Albretch Mueller <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 7/25/23, Peratham Wiriyathammabhum <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> > Luckily, words are often relational. Nice having some dialogue with >>>> you. >>>> >>>> characters, words, phrases, sentences, ... all the way to whole books >>>> are always intra- and intertextually relational and, once again, being >>>> "relational" has a measurably tractable meaning brought about by the >>>> dot product in a vector space ;-) >>>> >>>> Other people stumbling onto this thread will certainly notice the >>>> context in which it was framed. >>>> >>>> lbrtchx >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> Corpora mailing list -- [email protected] >> https://list.elra.info/mailman3/postorius/lists/corpora.list.elra.info/ >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> >
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