Hi John,

Thanks for looking at the document.

My responses are below:

From: John Mattsson <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 2, 2021 2:27 PM
To: Hannes Tschofenig <[email protected]>; [email protected]
Cc: Russ Housley <[email protected]>; Brendan Moran <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [COSE] HPKE for COSE

Hi Hannes,

- I am positive, I am very fond of HPKE in general, but I think the draft fails 
to answer the question why. Why is this useful for COSE? What is the benefit 
compared to using the currently defined Ephemeral-Static algorithms in COSE?

[Hannes] The answers to the question of why the IRTF needs to standardize 
another public key encryption specification (given that there are already many 
out there) is found in the HPKE specification. In the introduction the HPKE 
document says:

"

   Currently, there are numerous competing and non-interoperable
   standards and variants for hybrid encryption, mostly based on ECIES,
   including ANSI X9.63 (ECIES) 
[ANSI<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irtf-cfrg-hpke-08#ref-ANSI>], 
IEEE 1363a 
[IEEE1363<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irtf-cfrg-hpke-08#ref-IEEE1363>],
 ISO/IEC
   18033-2 
[ISO<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irtf-cfrg-hpke-08#ref-ISO>], 
and SECG SEC 1 
[SECG<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irtf-cfrg-hpke-08#ref-SECG>]. 
 See 
[MAEA10<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irtf-cfrg-hpke-08#ref-MAEA10>]
 for a thorough
   comparison.  All these existing schemes have problems, e.g., because
   they rely on outdated primitives, lack proofs of IND-CCA2 security,
   or fail to provide test vectors.

   This document defines an HPKE scheme that provides a subset of the
   functions provided by the collection of schemes above, but specified
   with sufficient clarity that they can be interoperably implemented.
   The HPKE construction defined herein is secure against (adaptive)
   chosen ciphertext attacks (IND-CCA2 secure) under classical
   assumptions about the underlying primitives 
[HPKEAnalysis<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irtf-cfrg-hpke-08#ref-HPKEAnalysis>],
   
[ABHKLR20<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irtf-cfrg-hpke-08#ref-ABHKLR20>].
  A summary of these analyses is in Section 
8.1<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-irtf-cfrg-hpke-08#section-8.1>.
"

Could they have taken a different route instead of inventing yet another public 
key encryption scheme? I think so but it is not for me to decide this.

What mattered for us as a consumer off the technology is that we wanted to 
re-use code. Since HPKE is already used in TLS and MLS, there was plenty of 
code available.

A developer can still select to use a different public key encryption scheme, 
if they want. Hence, we are not imposing any restrictions on developers. For 
firmware encryption with SUIT, however, we care about interoperability and a 
small number of options. Hence, in SUIT there are only two mechanism specified 
at the moment, namely one based on AES-KW and the HPKE version.



- Are the CEK and the layer 1 needed? Layer 1 and 2 are two layers of key 
encapsulation on top of each other. Why not use the the KEM shared secret 
directly in COSE_Encrypt?

[Hannes] They are not needed but using this design provides a nice benefit: We 
can now use this for encryption of content that is shared with multiple parties 
at the expense of only a single additional encryption operation. In the draft 
we encrypt the CEK and then the CEK is used to encrypt the plaintext. Applied 
to firmware encryption, we can therefore encrypt a firmware image and use HPKE 
to share the CEK with many different recipients securely.



- Is the intention to reuse Encap(pkR) several times? If you want to reuse the 
same encapsulation several times it might be better to use the salt parameter 
in HPKE or the IV parameter in COSE_Encrypt. The requirements on these 
parameters would be much lower than on the CEKs that have very randomness 
requirements.

[Hannes] This was not the intention. If this is not clear, then I need to 
clarify this aspect.


- The IANA registration follow directly from the HPKE draft. Can we do 
something smarter here so that any registered HPKE KEM can be used in COSE? 
There are already new more ligthweight KEMs suggested that might be a better 
fit for COSE. We can also expect registrations of all of the NIST PQC KEMs.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-harkins-cfrg-dnhpke/

[Hannes] I will respond to the IANA aspect in my second email.


- Editorial. I would suggest the following changes:

OLD "defined in RFC 2630 [RFC2630]"
NEW "defined in CMS [RFC2630]"

[Hannes]. Will be fixed with the next iteration.

Ciao
Hannes

Cheers,
John

From: COSE <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> on behalf of 
Hannes Tschofenig <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Date: Monday, 25 October 2021 at 18:58
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Cc: Russ Housley <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>, Brendan 
Moran <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Subject: [COSE] HPKE for COSE
Hi all,

We have just submitted the initial version of hybrid public key encryption 
(HPKE) for COSE with draft-tschofenig-cose-hpke-00

This document was produced based on a discussion in the SUIT working group 
where we use HPKE for firmware encryption. The believe is that HPKE can be a 
more generic mechanism useful for other applications beyond SUIT.

We would like to have an agenda slot at the next meeting to introduce this work 
to the group.

Ciao
Hannes

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