As you know from the mailing list discussions last year I share your view.
I lost the debate and, as an editor, I had to accept the decision of the
group. If the mindset has changed in the meanwhile I am happy to update the
document again.

Ciao
Hannes

Orie Steele <[email protected]> schrieb am Do., 1. Juni 2023, 00:44:

> Yes, there has been a *lot* of discussion regarding this on the list
> already.
>
> On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 2:02 PM Hannes Tschofenig <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Orie,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your contribution. I am trying to understand your suggestion
>> better.
>>
>>
>>
>> When it comes to the algorithm registry there are only two choices:
>>
>>
>>
>>    - A la carte, or
>>    - Ciphersuites
>>
>>
>>
>> From your text below I believe you are arguing for a ciphersuite as Apple
>> uses it.
>>
>>
>>
>> For the initial versions of the COSE-HPKE we used the ciphersuite
>> approach and then we switched to the a la carte approach.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is it correct that you want to move back to the ciphersuite approach?
>>
>
> Yes, I think "alg" should work the way it has previously worked, for both
> keys and envelopes.
>
> I don't think a new "alg" system should be invented in COSE-HPKE.
>
>
>>
>>
>> Once this decision has been taken, there is the question about where to
>> take the registered algorithm values from.
>>
>
> I suggest requesting registrations only for the algorithm suites that
> people want to use in COSE-HPKE, here:
>
> https://www.iana.org/assignments/cose/cose.xhtml
>
> This follows the conventions we have for ECDH alg's, which is what many
> people will be familiar with, and will potentially be upgrading from when
> considering COSE-HPKE.
>
> This will also result in simpler keys and envelopes.
>
>
>> Version -05 of the draft takes the values directly from the IANA HPKE
>> registry. In an attempt to avoid creating conflicts with the COSE algorithm
>> registry, they had to be used in the newly designed structure rather than
>> in the “usual” COSE algorithm parameter.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Yes, I disagree with this design choice.
>
> It is more contentious and requires more work, because it has to define
> this "new way of handling alg with an external registry".
>
> This complexity is not coming from HPKE, it is coming from wanting to
> establish new conventions in COSE Keys and Envelopes that avoid registry
> updates related to new algorithms.
>
> If it is going to be attempted, it would be better done in a
> separate document, as an update to COSE.
>
> However, I would still object because as Chris said, it seems to go
> against the previous conventions, and current trends in security best
> practices.
>
>
>> Ciao
>>
>> Hannes
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* COSE <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Orie Steele
>> *Sent:* Mittwoch, 31. Mai 2023 15:30
>> *To:* cose <[email protected]>
>> *Cc:* Christopher Wood <[email protected]>; Carsten Bormann <
>> [email protected]>; Henk Birkholz <[email protected]>; Laurence
>> Lundblade <[email protected]>; AJITOMI Daisuke <[email protected]>;
>> Ilari Liusvaara <[email protected]>; Hannes Tschofenig <
>> [email protected]>
>> *Subject:* [COSE] Updating the COSE alg registry for HPKE
>>
>>
>>
>> These comments are for:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cose-hpke/
>>
>> Chris Wood and I had a chat about the HPKE registry:
>>
>> https://www.iana.org/assignments/hpke/hpke.xhtml
>>
>> and how it might interact with the COSE registry:
>>
>> https://www.iana.org/assignments/cose/cose.xhtml
>>
>> I shared:
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ajitomi-cose-cose-key-jwk-hpke-kem/
>>
>> And some of the threads discussing alignment to the conventions we have
>> had previously for "alg" or creating the first registry entry for "alg"that
>> is bound to a parameterization label, "hkc" in the draft above.
>>
>> We also discussed if multiplicity is really necessary, given that it
>> leads to power set issues in unique parameter sets for hpke, for example:
>>
>> {
>>        "kty": "HPKE-KEM",
>>        "kid": "01",
>>        "alg": "HPKE-v1-Base",
>>        "hkc": {
>>            "kem": 0x020,
>>            "kdfs": [0x001, 0x002, 0x003],
>>            "aeads": [0x001, 0x002]
>>        },
>>        "pub": "y3wJq3uXPHeoCO4FubvTc7VcBuqpvUrSvU6ZMbHDTCI",
>>        "priv": "vsJ1oX5NNi0IGdwGldiac75r-Utmq3Jq4LGv48Q_Qc4"
>> }
>>
>> We discussed how DHKems already have `kty` values that are suitable,
>> namely "EC" and "OKP" for dhkems, for example:
>>
>> {
>>   "kty": "EC",
>>   "crv": "P-256",
>>   "x": "mAzzRDFigiSNrNfcvj8oopFUyaUBfa53xEfMurYOMO0",
>>   "y": "LTyqRXOgAsC-VdwoHG0cymji27cG1KUq0g2RtamLWbY",
>>   // "alg": "ECDH-ES+A128KW" --->
>> HPKEv1-Base-DHKEM(P256,HKDFSHA256)-HKDFSHA256-AES128GCM
>> }
>>
>> I shared what Apple is doing:
>>
>>
>> https://developer.apple.com/documentation/passkit/wallet/verifying_wallet_identity_requests#4036908
>>
>> Where "HPKEv1-Base-DHKEM(P256,HKDFSHA256)-HKDFSHA256-AES128GCM" is named
>> "APPLE-HPKE-v1"...
>>
>> COSE developers probably would want some integer expression of this for
>> consistency and compactness.
>>
>> Carsten, Henk and I had discussed if it would be possible to get a unique
>> integer from the HPKE registry, so we can keep the conventions we have had
>> to date, regarding alg.
>>
>> See table 18:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8152#section-12.4.1
>>
>> And the section defining COSE Key:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8152#section-7.1
>>
>>
>> Ideally COSE implementers would only need to implement what is in the
>> COSE registry, but we could update the registry
>> such that each new entry aligned with what is already registered in HPKE
>> registry, and where the label and the value are minimized.
>>
>> For example, see:
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8152#appendix-C.3.3
>>
>> Compared to:
>>
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-cose-hpke-05#name-multiple-recipients-two-laye
>>
>> I invite Chris and Carsten to share their thoughts on HPKE and "alg"
>> as expressed in COSE Keys and COSE encryption envelopes.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> OS
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *ORIE STEELE*Chief Technology Officer
>> www.transmute.industries
>>
>> <https://transmute.industries/>
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
> ORIE STEELE
> Chief Technology Officer
> www.transmute.industries
>
> <https://transmute.industries>
>
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