----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any advice in this forum.]---- As all Coupers probably know, Unkle Fred designed many pilot safety items into his aircraft designs. He was instrumental in the design of the Piper Pawnee (agriculture aircraft). He designed a hollow rolled metal top for the instrument panel which would absorb much of the impact if the pilot's head were to strike the panel. I attended a "Designing for Safety" seminar which he conducted at Sun-N-Fun a few years ago and one of the things he mentioned was that he installed a second set of seat belts at the top of his Ercoupe seat structure. He said he simply fastened the belts around the chest and it worked for him. I've never seen this done by anyone else and thought I would post it here to see what the group thinks of the "second seat belt" idea? John Newman N94677 David wrote: > My fully legal 9G installation cost one hour IA time to inspect my work > and handle the paperwork. The largest single cost was for the harnesses. > You can get them from Wag Aero for approximately $85 each, but I chose > some that looked and fit a lot better and cost more. Other materials > required to attach to the airframe cost approximately $200 for the two > sides. > > I saved approximately 8 hours of fabrication and attachment time by > doing the work myself, with a friendly IA looking over my shoulder. I > don't see how a change in regulations would cut the fabrication or > materials cost. The FAA field inspection mine required was free! > > David > N6359V > > > Ed Burkhead wrote: > > > > ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following > > any advice in this forum.]---- > > > > Larry wrote: > > > I agree here. I think we all too often get caught up in aesthetics, > > > rather than function. It looks cool to have shoulder harness in the > > > plane. It may kill me in an accident, but damn it looks good. The > > > fact is, an improperly installed item can actually create more problems > > > than it cures. So, unless your only object is to have it help you > > > keep your seat while flying inverted, either do it right, or don't > > > do it at all. > > > > > > Larry > > > > I agree with a caveat. > > > > When Don Stretch, president of Airtex Interiors, was president of the > > EOC, he had a takeoff crash into trees. The shoulder harnesses he had at > > the time did fail. But before they failed, they took up enough of his > > and his passenger's body's energy that their arms could handle the > > rest. Don's head did NOT get crunched. Even his arm didn't get broken. > > > > That's a LOT better than nothing at all. > > > > Having said that, I'll say: It would be very dumb not to spend the > > little bit extra in cost to get a GOOD installation done. > > > > Having said that, I still haven't got ANY shoulder harness in my plane > > and I DON'T like that situation. There's a threshold cost I haven't > > gotten over. Maybe the change in FAA rules will bring down the AI > > paperwork billable hours enough to make the installation affordable. > > > > Ed > > > > > David wrote: > > > > > > > ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following > > > > any advice in this forum.]---- > > > > IMHO "any installation" might be better than none, but NASA, Air Force, > > > > and NTSB studies have shown that properly restrained, the body can > > > > withstand upwards of 25G without serious injury. My harness system is > > > > designed for only 9G because that is all the attachment points on a > > > > 'coupe will allow. Newer factory aircraft (and your automobile) are > > > > designed with harnesses and seats that withstand much higher crash > > > > forces. > > > > > > > > When your head strikes the panel after that "any installation" lets go > > > > at only 4Gs, it's too late to be sorry that you didn't do it right. My > > > > point was that it is not difficult to do a proper (and legal) > > > > installation. > > > > > > > > David > > > > N6359V > > > > > > > > craig hinton wrote: > > > > > > > > > > ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following > > > > > any advice in this forum.]---- > > > > > I think any installation is better than nothing! There is too much > > > > > emphasis on harness being able to withstand more than any other > > > > > structure, the pilot included. Craig 2623H > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > David wrote: > > > > > > Whether it's a major alteration, a minor one, or something the pilot may > > > > > > sign off himself, a safety item like a shoulder harness must work when > > > > > > you want it to. That's why the FAA required me to present engineering > > > > > > data before they would let me install it. The "type" of alteration > > > > > > doesn't lessen the requirement for both a working installation and > > > > > > appropriate paperwork. > > > > > > > > > > > > A former owner installed brackets for harnesses in my plane that were > > > > > > supposedly in accordance with a "Canadian STC." A casual observer could > > > > > > clearly see that the several hundred pound load that a 9G crash would > > > > > > impose them would rip out the five rivets used to install each bracket. > > > > > > There are a few ways to install 9G capable brackets - I don't think the > > > > > > removal of a title "major alteration" will affect anything but who can > > > > > > sign off the installation - basic cost will be the same as should the > > > > > > methodology. I'll be glad to correspond with anyone privately about > > > > > > details of my installation and the design package a number of members of > > > > > > this list have purchased. > > > > > > > > > > > > David > > > > > > N6359V > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Greg Bullough wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following > > > > > > > any advice in this forum.]---- > > > > > > > This message is to invite speculation on the new EAA/FAA > > > > > > > initiative which says that shoulder harnesses in vintage aircraft > > > > > > > are not to be treated as a 'major alteration' any more. > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > To unsubscribe from this list please send > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > > > T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 > > > > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe from this list please send > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > > T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 > > > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics > > > > __________________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe from this list please send > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ___________________________________________________________ > > T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 > > Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
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