Tim Dierks wrote:
> At 09:11 AM 6/3/2003, Peter Gutmann wrote:
> >"Lucky Green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > >Given that SSL use is orders of magnitude higher than that of SSH, with no
> > >change in sight, primarily due to SSL's ease-of-use, I am a bit puzzled by
> > >your assertion that ssh, not SSL, is the "only really successful net crypto
> > >system".
> >
> >I think the assertion was that SSH is used in places where it matters, while
> >SSL is used where no-one really cares (or even knows) about it.  Joe Sixpack
> >will trust any site with a padlock GIF on the page.  Most techies won't access
> >a Unix box without SSH.  Quantity != quality.
> I have my own opinion on what this assertion means. :-) I believe it
> intends to state that ssh is more successful because it is the only
> Internet crypto system which has captured a large share of its use base.
> This is probably true: I think the ratio of ssh to telnet is much higher
> than the ratio of https to http, pgp to unencrypted e-mail, or what have you.

Certainly, in measureable terms, Tim's description
is spot on.  I agree with Peter's comments, but
that's another issue indeed.

> However, I think SSL has been much more successful in general than SSH, if
> only because it's actually used as a transport layer building block rather
> than as a component of an application protocol. SSL is used for more
> Internet protocols than HTTP: it's the standardized way to secure POP,
> IMAP, SMTP, etc. It's also used by many databases and other application
> protocols. In addition, a large number of proprietary protocols and custom
> systems use SSL for security: I know that Certicom's SSL Plus product
> (which I originally wrote) is (or was) used to secure everything from
> submitting your taxes with TurboTax to slot machine jackpot notification
> protocols, to the tune of hundreds of customers. I'm sure that when you add
> in RSA's customers, those of other companies, and people using
> OpenSSL/SSLeay, you'll find that SSL is much more broadly used than ssh.

Design wins!  Yes, indeed, another way of measuring
the success is to measure the design wins.  Using
this measure, SSL is indeed ahead.  This probably
also correlates with the wider support that SSL
garners in the cryptography field.

> I'd guess that SSL is more broadly used, in a dollars-secured or
> data-secure metric, than any other Internet protocol. Most of these uses
> are not particularly visible to the consumer, or happen inside of
> enterprises. Of course, the big winners in the $-secured and data-secured
> categories are certainly systems inside of the financial industry and
> governmental systems.

That would depend an awful lot on what was meant
by "dollars-secured" and "data-secured" ?  Sysadmins
move some pretty hefty backups by SSH on a routine


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