Charles Brown wrote:

> The main question
> that occurred to me is why don't the authors consider such things
> as digging a burrow or migrating to avoid cold as genetically
> based instincts, as essentially phenotypical expression of
> genotype.  Isn't there such a thing as instinctive animal
> BEHAVIOR ?  If so isn't a form of phenotype  ( the paper mentions
> Dawkins' "extended phenotype")? Finally, why do they treat it as
> if it is incipient animal culture ?  Are they saying that child
> animals learn , for example, seasonal migration by imitating
> parents , and that it is not genetically based instinct ?

Probably I'm missing something here, but how does this affect the concept of
gene-culture coevolution, assuming you're right?

>
> CB: Are they saying this web construction or the subsequent
> camouflage, protection and communication behaviours are
> instintive or incipiently "cultural"  ? Are they passed on
> through genes or as a "tradition" ? I would assume the former.

I'm sure you're right, but again, I don't see this disqualifies the notion
of coevolution.

> )))))))))
>
>
>
> Most cases of niche construction, however, do not involve the building of
> artefacts, but merely the selection or modification of habitats
> (Odling-Smee, 1988). For instance, many insects choose particular host
>
> ((((((((((((
>
> CB: They "choose" it ?  Is this instinctive choice or "conscious" choice ?
>
> (((((((((


I'm sure the word choice doesn't imply cognition, in context.

> All organisms constantly interact with their local environments, and they
> constantly change them by doing so. If, in each generation, populations of
> organisms only modify their local environment idiosyncratically, or
> inconsistently, then there will be no modification of natural selection
> pressures, and hence, no significant evolutionary consequence.
> If, however,
> in each generation, each organism repeatedly changes its own
> environment in
> the same way, perhaps because each individual inherits the same genes
> causing it to do so, then the result may be a modification of natural
> selection.
>
> (((((((((((((
>
> CB: Why do they say "perhaps" ? Isn't this definitely so. And
> isn't this an important point in a paper that compares
> instinctive behavior and cultural behavior ?
>
> I can understand that the authors are pointing to ecological
> inheritance as structures external to the organisms's bodies and
> thereby different than the bodily phenotype. But the behaviors
> that generate the physical structures that persist to a next
> generation or influence the upbringing of infant animals here are
> INSTINCTIVE behaviors, not learned as a culture or tradition.
>
> clip


I think the whole thrust of the paper is to show how forms of co-operation
and altruism can emerge in a grounded way, out of the evolutionary logic
itself, ie as *necessary* adaptations which optimise survivability of the
genotype (the "selfish genes"). This is much better than just an appeal to
good behaviour!


> ((((((((((((((((((
>
> CB: Seems to me that human culture still has a unique status with
> respect to its capacity to modify natural selection.
Absolutely: 'The hive is at bottom one bee', as Marx said.

Mark


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