Stan, my response was not meant to bash you personally. I have nothing more than your words on this list, to judge who you are, or what your organizing accomplishments are. However I do have some experience in the cult of leadership cadre tagged onto Social Democratic business unionism. And your attitudes toward rank and file are cliche standards of the outsiders-coming in, core organizers, now favored by the national union structure in their organizing campaigns. That way control is maintained over local union structures, and any incipient independece is kept under tight control from the very beginning. <Yeah, yeah... "elitest"... that's me. I didn't say I was listening in an encounter group. Anyone with any organizing experience should be able to relate to exactly the problems I am listening for. I'm listening the same way a deer listens in the woods... for danger. I've already been there with all these archetypes, and I've watched them fuck up one organization after another.> Well, have you watched how your archetype fucks up organization after organization? My guess is that you, as the US Labor Movement leadership is now doing, trumpeted your minimal success as something that must be copied by all, and the only road ahead. Every body get out of the way as the Macho studs from the established union structure , the Real Guys, get it done. Unfortunately, you're not getting it done. And the tremendous amount of self-delusion of the union bureaucracy cannot change that basic fact. <Instead of yawning, you could have paid attention. Not a union. It's a network of organizers. Like the one I worked in with over 50 community groups in Eastern North Carolina, the one I built from 20 to fifty organizations in North Carolina, and like the one that has 22 organizations across the South. Labor people, environmentalists, civil rights people, consumer advocates, faith-based... though I'm sure it's nothing compared to your vast experience, Tony.> That's all fine and dandy, but just what is it you are organizing? Nader was a good organizer with all his consumer groups, too. They're still around. So? All their lobbying the Democrat Party experience counts for next to naught. But very efficient people. <My point, the second one you completely missed, is that we need a process to put together a meeting, if the meeting is to develop organization.> This sort of corporate efficiency model applied to Left organizing, is a total indicator of the business unionist model of organization. It's used in building the 'lobbying Left', too. Local Democratic Party bodies love it! <Your remarks have absolutely nothing to do with my point, which is that the conversation we are carrying on here is not relating to the level of consciousness among the masses, and so we should be very careful about checking in with reality when we want to assess how something might actually be changed.>..... How absolutely patronizing to the masses, Stan. I believe that they can understand larger concepts. Plus, they can organize around them also. I can hear you now..... But not at the Local 204, UFCW meeting, Tony. Wrong again. You should go in there and explain to them about the need to integrate economic activity of town and countryside. Large parts of the world have been left as deserts because the countryside was exploited by the town. And I hear that North Carolina is in a pretty stinky situation, also. Give it a try, and above all....... listen like a deer. Yours in organizing solidarity.... Tony _______________________________________________ CrashList website: http://website.lineone.net/~resource_base
