2014-05-26 10:04 GMT-04:00 Louis Desjardins <[email protected]>:
> 2014-05-26 8:39 GMT-04:00 Femke Snelting <[email protected]>: > >> Dear Ale, Anders, >> >> As you can imagine your point of view has come up in the many discussions >> that lead to the formulation of this document. >> >> The reason to have examples included, is that experience learns (from >> many other groups that have done CoCs and/or that have dealt with >> harassment), that concrete cases are necessary in order for a CoC to work. >> The argument being that it should be explicit from the start that >> harassment is a reality and that it should not be the problem of someone >> that feels harassed to convince others that such behaviour exists. Even >> when the general tone of the document is constructive, this CoC exists for >> a reason. >> >> So while all involved in the drafting of it agreed to have examples, we >> felt it was not up to us to formulate a list of specific cases. We decided >> to refer to the timeline of incidents, as it is the only well-documented >> page on harassment in relevant contexts that we are aware of. >> >> The LGM-CoC addresses all types of harassment, and not only those that >> are gender related. While I think the 'geek' and 'feminism' in the url is a >> detail, I do share your concern that the examples are mainly gender related >> (it is not true that they are only about harassment against women). >> > > Hi Femke, > > I think the fact that "the examples are mainly gender related", while the > possible behaviors we want to avoid and act upon embraces a wider range of > threats, is at the heart of the concerns expressed here. > > To sort this out, I would suggest we include a couple more examples that > are not gender specific (examples below). > > I don’t know if this would make a consensus but I would hope so. > > For one, I feel a bit uncomfortable with that only one link and after > having read the comments. > > I also agree that the links should go towards a page we have control over > as Simon as pointed it. > > >> At the end of the day we were more concerned by not having any examples >> at all, than to have only examples of a limited scope. Of course, if there >> are other sources that you can suggest, it would be very good to include >> them. >> > > From the Swansea University (UK) we have well written definitions and > examples followed by a section about what to do when being harassed or > feeling harassed that could inspire us for the "how to deal with issues". > > https://www.swan.ac.uk/registry/academicguide/conductandcomplaints/dignityatworkandstudycombatingharassment/1introduction/ > > > From École Polytechnique de Montréal (English version of the document). > Especially the section about definition is of much interest in my view and > has the benefit of putting into a simple wording what is harassment without > going into all the details. Well worth reading, I think. > http://www.polymtl.ca/sg/docs_officiels/en/1310har3.htm > Yet another link, from our next year venue, the Toronto University (and sublinks to the PDF file of the Student CoC) http://www.viceprovoststudents.utoronto.ca/publicationsandpolicies/codeofstudentconduct.htm Hope this helps. Louis > > From the London School of Economics > > http://www.lse.ac.uk/intranet/staff/humanResources/reviewingAndRewarding/promotionAndReview/disciplinaryGrievance/harassment/examplesOfDifferentTypesOfHarassment.aspx > > The American point of view > http://www.strategichr.com/shrsweb2/harassment_01.shtml > > Some additionnal links: > > The Ada Initiative > https://adainitiative.org/what-we-do/conference-policies/ > > The New York University Anti-Harassment Policy > > http://www.nyu.edu/about/policies-guidelines-compliance/policies-and-guidelines/anti-harassment-policy-and-complaint-procedures.html > > Python Software Foundation CoC > https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > and > https://us.pycon.org/2013/about/code-of-conduct/ > > > >> >> best, >> >> >> Femke >> >> >> >> On 26/05/14 13:06, a.l.e wrote: >> >>> dear femke and all >>> >>> first thanks for your work on this document! >>> >>> the LGM CoC looks good to me. >>> >>> ... just one thing... >>> >>> - I agree that the reference to examples was awkwardly phrased and >>>> simple is better: >>>> "Some examples: http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/ >>>> wiki/Timeline_of_incidents" >>>> >>> >>> personally, i would prefer that line to be removed. >>> >>> >>> on the one side, i'm not sure that a list of examples needs to be there. >>> the document seems to be clear enough! >>> >>> on the other side, "geek" + "feminism" in the url and the fact that most >>> (if not all) the examples are about women (i could not spot any about any >>> other gender/sexual/skin/religious/you name it category that tend to be >>> the target of "incidents"... but i have not read the whole page) does not >>> match the idea that a CoC is there to protect each participant from any >>> other "bad" participant. whether they are geek or not, males or women, or >>> anything else they wish or happen to be. >>> >>> >>> for sure, not a reason to reject the CoC. but -- in my eyes -- a detail >>> that might be worth to be fixed... >>> but you (plural) might also have very good reasons to keep that link... >>> >>> >>> have a nice day and, again, thanks for the fine document! >>> a.l.e >>> _______________________________________________ >>> CREATE mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> CREATE mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/create >> > >
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