-------- Original Message -------- Subject: comments List-Post: [email protected] Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 23:36:06 -0000 From: "Iorizzo, Dolores E" <[email protected]> To: "martin" <[email protected]> Dear Martin, Here are my comments on your text. 1) Your first point that the CRM offers a 'step towards the vision of a global knowledge infrastructure' is a good one, but it might be thought that the WWW does that already to some extent, so you might amend it to a '...semantically integrated global knowledge infrastucture', (or using a more non-technical term for 'semantic'). It might be worth pointing out the obvious by saying that the WWW and popular search engines (Google, Yahoo...) offer the illusion of connecting us to a vast range of resources and knowledge, but in fact.....without the CRM one is severely limited in ways that are unknown to the user. 2) To a large extent one cannot ask the question 'why is the ISO status for the CRM news worthy, without addressing the much larger problem of what it ultimately hopes to achieve - why onologies, and why THIS one? If there is a shorthand way of answering, or nodding to, this question in a press release then we should do so. If we are putting in for the Descartes Prize then we need to come up with a sophisticated way of addressing this issue which puts it in the forefront. For instance, when reflecting what sort of metaphor or simile would capture the importance of the CRM for a 'global knowledge infrastructure', images from biology, medicine and chemistry come to mind. The CRM does not impose a structure, but tries to reveal the natural structure of a thing and its relation to other things, so you might say that getting this right is equivalent to getting right the conceptual stucture of an atom, or a cell or the structure of DNA - and these are things that can appeal both to scientists and to the popular imagination. A good question to ask to get the image right would be: If the WWW was an organism ( or a collection of electronic resources was such), then what would the CRM be ? the neural networks that connect them? the atomic stucture?.... this is a useful exercise, and I would be grateful for your answer, because turning an idea into an image is a useful way to clarify the idea. (The WWW might just be an 'heap' and not apt for the analogy but it is a still a useful starting point.) 2) 'Agreement on wide international level on a basic, complex intellectual structure... where subtle distinctions are vital to scholarly research.' Yes, this needs to be emphasized since it speaks to the issue of how technology of this sort changes the nature of scholarly research - the question everyone is asking. 3) Good to emphasize how the CRM gives shape to state of the art knowledge *extraction* as well as 'knowledge representation', showing that the CRM offers an epistemologically aware as well as an ontologically articulate conceptual framework. 4) The point about interdisciplinary collaboration is vital, since the CRM introduces the possibility of cross-domain and cross-boundary research in the arts, humanities and sciences. 5) The point about 'non-funded international collaboration' should not be buried; it is a significant point on its own, since it represents a form of philanthropy and intellectual commitment by a dedicated core group of interdisciplinary researchers -a rare thing in this world. Writing these comments have created more questions for me than answers, but these I must address in a separate message. as ever, Dolores ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: martin [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Fri 11/03/2005 17:11 To: Tyler Bell Cc: Nicholas Crofts; Iorizzo, Dolores E; Guenther Goerz; Christian-Emil Ore Subject: Re: [crm-sig] ISO CRM press release Hi Tyler, On one side it is a significant step towards the vision of a global knowledge infrastructure, and a step to overcome the isolation of and ultimately loss of scholarly knowledge of immense value, but also a start into a new, more systematic understanding of the nature and complexity of cultural-historical discourse, from which both should benefit, its effective support by information systems, but most probably also the discourse itself. What is outstanding for me in this attempt: a) An agreement on such a wide international level on a basic, complex intellectual structure that is far more ambitious than any other current attempt towards semantic interoperability, and this in a discipline where subtle intellectual distinction is vital and scholarly disagreement method. b) The interdisciplinary collaboration between scholars, scientists and computer science on a conceptual model which is state-of-the-art of knowledge representation in computer science. It can be regarded as an extraordinary success of know-how transfer between sciences. Particularly AI is notoriously uncomprehensible for outsiders. We could demonstrate that scholars and scientists of other disciplines are able after moderate introduction to explain the structure of their data in a formalism coming from AI. c) The interdisciplinary collaboration between scholars, scientists and computer science on a conceptual model which represents the real consensus on basic conceptualizations of experts ("ontological commitment") in domains so diverse as natural history, history of art, library science and others. This success is related to the fact that this collaboration is not a project, but result of an open, long-term cooperation of people coming together to seek for the best rather than the first solution, a question of endurance and patience. I write this also in the light of making arguments for the Descartes Prize. Nick, Dolores, Christian-Emil, Guenter, I would like to hear and to give Tyler your understanding of the relevance of what we do with the CRM, and of course critique on the above. Best, Martin Tyler Bell wrote: > Thank you Martin. > > Can I fist get a short quote from you? I will ask Nick for one as well. > Something like "This is a significant stage in the development of the > CRM because... " > > Will pass a draft back to you early next week. > > TB > > martin wrote: > >> Hi Tyler, >> >> Thank you very much! >> >> Yes, please go ahead, I'll participate of course in the writing. >> >> Let me know when you have a first draft at hand. >> >> Best, >> >> martin >> >> Tyler Bell wrote: >> >>> CRM Team, >>> >>> We must write a "press release" about this news. >>> >>> I suggest this because it is good to have a single reference that >>> highlights its significance for the CRM and (more importantly) the >>> cultural heritage community. >>> >>> With a press release in hand, we can contact the major information >>> bodies and publications with a reference to the release; it would >>> also be handy to have something to pass something around during the >>> conference season. >>> >>> In all, this is a great opportunity to raise awareness of the CRM and >>> prepare the world for its advent. Assuming this is agreed, I'll >>> write the release and will of course welcome input. >>> >>> TB >>> >>> >>> [email protected] wrote: >>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> Good news... results of the ISO 21127 DSI ballot have just come in >>>> and I'm >>>> happy to say that the result was unanimous approval. Thanks to this >>>> we will >>>> be able to move directly into the publication phase without the >>>> need to >>>> pass through a FDIS (final draft) ballot. >>>> >>>> Voting results in the document below >>>> >>>> >>>> (See attached file: Vote Results.pdf) >>>> >>>> >>>> Looking forward to seeing you in Zagreb >>>> >>>> best wishes >>>> >>>> Nick Crofts >>>> Convenor ISO TC46 SC4 WG9 >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Martin Doerr | Vox:+30(2810)391625 | Principle Researcher | Fax:+30(2810)391638 | | Email: [email protected] | | Center for Cultural Informatics | Information Systems Laboratory | Institute of Computer Science | Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) | | Vassilika Vouton,P.O.Box1385,GR71110 Heraklion,Crete,Greece | | Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl | -------------------------------------------------------------- -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Martin Doerr | Vox:+30(2810)391625 | Principle Researcher | Fax:+30(2810)391638 | | Email: [email protected] | | Center for Cultural Informatics | Information Systems Laboratory | Institute of Computer Science | Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) | | Vassilika Vouton,P.O.Box1385,GR71110 Heraklion,Crete,Greece | | Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl | --------------------------------------------------------------
