Hi, Stephen! My point was that relations such as metonymy (I mean relations between types or word senses or particulars etc., not between instances or items of documentation)
are either out of the CRM scope or may lead to "dive into a non-decidable subset of 2nd order logic". Anyway, I don't see a corresponding CRM property. As I understand, it's still an open question. Of course, one could introduce metonymy as new property between certain (user-defined) subclasses of E55.Type. Best regards Vladimir 2008/11/25 Stephen Stead <[email protected]>: > Vladimir > I agree with Martin that this is pushing beyond the intend use. > Rgds > SdS > > Stephen Stead > Tel +44 20 8668 3075 > Mob +44 7802 755 013 > E-mail [email protected] > > > -----Original Message----- > From: martin [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: 20 November 2008 16:49 > To: Vladimir Ivanov > Cc: [email protected]; crm-sig > Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] metonymy > > Hi Vladimir, > > I think this clearly goes beyond the "intended" use of P103. We had > discussions in the past > about a "Metacrm", i.e., a set of operators that allow to derive from CRM > properties, > which are designed to hold for particulars, "usual" properties holding > between > all instances of some categories (E55). The discussion more or less stuck > with > Guenther Goerz' proposal to use default logic, which seems to be promising > but > was not further developed into a demonstrator. > > I think the topic is still "hot", and still maintain > that it can be described by a suitable metaschema generated from the CRM. > The question, if we would necessarily dive into a non-decidable subset of > 2nd order logic > is also in the air, even though I do not believe it until I see a real > example of > such an undecidable question. > > Best, > > Martin > > Vladimir Ivanov wrote: >> Thanks a lot, Stephen, >> >> In my case, I would like to link two instances of E55 Type: >> engraving (technique type) [E55] and engraving (object type) [E55] >> to describe "intensional" knowledge like in the phrase >> "engraving techniques usually produce engravings". >> >> The E55 is also a sub-class of E71. >> If I understand you correctly, I can write: >> engraving (technique type) [E55] -> P103 was intended for (was >> intention of) -> engraving (object type) [E55]. >> >> Vladimir >> >> 2008/11/20, Stephen Stead <[email protected]>: >>> Vladimir >>> The E29 Design or Procedure is a sub-class of E71 Man-Made Thing and so > P103 >>> was intended for (was intention of) can be used to link to an instance > of >>> E55 Type {Making of an instance of object type x}. Of course actual >>> instances of E12 Production can also be linked via P2 has type (is type > of) >>> to the same instance of E55 Type. >>> >>> The mismatch has already been corrected but well caught! >>> P68 usually employs (is usually employed by): E57 Material >>> P68 usually employs (is usually employed by) >>> >>> Stephen Stead >>> Tel +44 20 8668 3075 >>> Mob +44 7802 755 013 >>> E-mail [email protected] >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > On >>> Behalf Of Vladimir Ivanov >>> Sent: 20 November 2008 10:04 >>> To: crm-sig >>> Subject: [Crm-sig] metonymy >>> >>> Dear All, >>> >>> there is a P103 in the CRM which models >>> "methods and techniques of use" intended for "specific man-made things" > . >>> >>> How could one model that a method or a technique is usually >>> used to produce (or intended to produce) particular type of "man-made >>> things"? >>> >>> Such a property could be out of the CRM's scope, >>> but it provide quite common knowledge. >>> >>> The CRM already defines "P68 foresees use of " >>> which links techniques and materials in a similar manner. >>> (remark: there is a mismatch of "P68" name netween E29 definition and >>> Property definition in v.4.3) >>> >>> Best, >>> Vladimir Ivanov. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Crm-sig mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Crm-sig mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig >> > > > -- > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Dr. Martin Doerr | Vox:+30(2810)391625 | > Principle Researcher | Fax:+30(2810)391638 | > | Email: [email protected] | > | > Center for Cultural Informatics | > Information Systems Laboratory | > Institute of Computer Science | > Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) | > | > Vassilika Vouton,P.O.Box1385,GR71110 Heraklion,Crete,Greece | > | > Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl | > -------------------------------------------------------------- > >
