Dear all, I confess I am totally perplexed by the request. I am not a LIDO specialist, but it seems to me simply impossible to map ONIX to LIDO, as they were not designed to describe the same things (as is correctly demonstrated in reference [4]). ONIX can be mapped to library formats such as MARC formats or MODS, but LIDO was designed to account for physical objects, not abstract notions such as publications; the only element of "non-uniqueness" I can find in LIDO is the mention of the state/edition to which a specific art print or photograph print belongs (but a LIDO record is designed to account for the specific print as a physical object, not to describe the abstract notion of "state"). In my (possibly wrong) understanding, "authoritative examples of CIDOC-CRM and/or LIDO data records or sets for bibliographic objects" cannot be provided, as such examples simply cannot exist. Assistance "with the decisions on semantics, syntax and mapping rules to translate ONIX structures into LIDO" cannot be provided either, as ONIX structures, in my (possibly wrong) opinion, simply cannot be translated into LIDO. The suggestion that a manifestation could be described in LIDO as though it were a unique item does not seem to me particularly helpful. What is the point of doing so? And regarding a printed text as a specific case of "inscription" seems to me to be stretching the LIDO (and CRM) notion of "inscription" too far. The temptative mapping from UNIMARC to CRM, to which Michael Hopwood refers in his message, is a demonstration that it is impossible to map from a model or format designed to account for abstractions to a model or format designed to account for unique physical things. As Martin puts it, FRBRoo would be a better match for a mapping target from ONIX (and <indecs>). Besides, I do not understand why ONIX should be mapped to LIDO in the first place (I failed to discover the "background on how and why" in reference [4], although I found that document extremely interesting). But I leave it to LIDO specialists to send a more comprehensive answer to Michael Hopwood. Best wishes, Patrick Le Boeuf (National Library of France, and member of the CIDOC CRM/FRBR Harmonisation Group)
Message de : martin <[email protected]> 18/06/2012 19:17 Envoyé par : [email protected] Pour [email protected], FRBR Group <[email protected]> Copie Objet Re: [Frbr-crm] [Crm-sig] Bibliographic data in CRM / LIDO - authoritative mappings, help urgently requested Dear Michael, I forward your request to the FRBR-CRM Harmization Group. I'd expect CRM-FRBRoo would provide a much better fit, but the colleagues from IFLA are THE experts in this respect. Thank you for your questions! I hope you will get enough answers, otherwise, ask again. Best Martin On 18/6/2012 7:12 μμ, Michael Hopwood wrote: Hello CRM and LIDO experts, I am working on the final draft of a comprehensive mapping of the ONIX for Books 3.0.1 schema [1] to the LIDO schema [2] in the context of Linked Heritage [3]. For more background on how and why, please refer to EDItEUR’s first deliverable in Linked Heritage (which also includes more on ONIX) [4]. The expression of this mapping work is primarily XSLT using the MINT system [5] Since the best practice in mapping standard data schemas [6] is to get firm agreement or at least assent after clarification from both schema’s designers / maintainers, I’d like to ask you urgently for assistance in this effort, especially any or all of these ways: a) Contributing authoritative (see above) examples of CIDOC-CRM and/or LIDO data records or sets for bibliographic objects (i.e. books and library catalogue records) (these will be used only for the purpose of understanding the schemas and building the mapping); b) Assisting directly with the decisions on semantics, syntax and mapping rules to translate ONIX structures into LIDO (I will supply any necessary explanation of what the ONIX schema says based on EDItEUR’s authoritative expertise); c) Reviewing and criticising the draft mapping in detail from a CRM/LIDO perspective once it is complete. The CRM-LIDO mapping at http://www.cidoc-crm.org/crm_mappings.html I did not find very helpful, as it is at a very high level of abstraction; I need some help with both fairly broad semantic categories and some fine details of semantics and (the limits of) expressive syntax (maybe I’m missing something, so I’d be grateful to be shown where!). Some of the mapping notes and action notes from the UNIMARC (at link above) express the problems I have come across conceptually �C e.g. - Mapping the “manifestation” class for a generic product as though it were a unique (“representative”) item (LIDO) - Future or planned events (CRM and LIDO �C but is this helped by FRBRoo?) …and there are some new difficulties that I discovered: - “Inscriptions” as printed text on identical, mass-produced products? (CRM and LIDO) - Structured text elements of names and titles (LIDO for sure; maybe CRM?) - Contact details (LIDO for sure; maybe CRM?) - Allowed uses / terms and conditions �C i.e. rights and licences (LIDO for sure; maybe CRM?) - Almost everything to do with the relationships between, and relative detail needed for an artwork or object as subject of a book vs. the book itself as the artwork (LIDO). Please feel free to either discuss this request on the list or, I suggest without insisting, contact me directly to discuss the mappings in detail with other interested experts. Best wishes, Michael NOTES: 1. http://www.editeur.org/93/Release-3.0-Downloads/ 2. www.lido-schema.org/ 3. http://www.linkedheritage.org/ 4. http://www.linkedheritage.org/getFile.php?id=283 5. http://mint.image.ece.ntua.gr/redmine/projects/mint/wiki 6. http://www.doi.org/VMF/documents/VocabularyMappingFrameworkIntroductionV1.0%28091212%29.pdf �C see section 1.5 “Authorisation of mappings” Michael Hopwood Linked Heritage Project Lead EDItEUR United House, North Road London N7 9DP UK Tel: +44 20 7503 6418 Mob: +44 7811 591036 Skype: michael.hopwood.editeur http://www.linkedheritage.org/ http://editeur.org/ The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, please inform the sender and delete this e-mail immediately. The contents of this e-mail must not be disclosed or copied without the sender's consent. We cannot accept any responsibility for viruses, so please scan all attachments. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the company. EDItEUR Limited is a company limited by guarantee, registered in England no 2994705. Registered Office: United House, North Road, London N7 9DP, United Kingdom _______________________________________________ Crm-sig mailing list [email protected] http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Martin Doerr | Vox:+30(2810)391625 | Research Director | Fax:+30(2810)391638 | | Email: [email protected] | | Center for Cultural Informatics | Information Systems Laboratory | Institute of Computer Science | Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) | | N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, | GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece | | Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl | -------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Frbr-crm mailing list [email protected] http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/frbr-crm Exposition La Presse à la Une. 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