Hi,
I agree with Martin's definition of phase and point of view of not
"connecting a discussion about "phases of ideas" with "phases of
Physical Things".
I earlier thought myself that ideas, in some ways, could have 'phases'
but it seems more suitable, in the way of modeling adopted by the CRM,
to say that ideas (in the sense of propositional objects or of
concepts/types — and what about symbolic objects ?) exist as such, are
identifiable as such, and do not change in their identity over time. It
seems to be our mind, our belief (CRMinf I2 Belief), our mental state
(Issue 359: mental state), that can evolve, i.e. the substratum carries
new ideas, our classification of concepts can change, our belief, etc.
but this would be about changing of mental state not about changing of
the ideas themselves, as such. Would this be the point ?
Would then, it this is correct, Mental state (not existing yet as class
– Issue 359) and Belief I2 be subclasses of Exxx Phase ?
Another issue would be to ask if a E74 Group can have phases. Althogh
the identity of the group remains the same, it can have different
'behaviours', strategies, situations, etc. This is of course related to
social life, to an ongoing, virtual CRMsoc extension. But insofar as
'Phase' is modelled as high abstraction level class in CRMbase itself,
wouldn't be appropriate to consider also phases in the life of groups ?
If yes, then we would need one property pointing from the temporal
entity 'Phase' to the object concerned by the specific appearence or
characteristic identifying the phase. But E74 Group and E18 Physical
Things do not belong to the same class, right? By the way I was
wondering why E74 Group is not subclass of Legal Object – E72. But if it
was, this wouldn't arrange things, I assume, because, ont the one side,
having phases in not the intension of the Legal Object class and, on the
other side, there's the E90 Symbolic Object subclass there which
wouldn't seem to have 'phases'. Or does it have indeed ?
All the best
Francesco
Le 18.02.19 à 20:40, Martin Doerr a écrit :
Dear Martijn,
On 2/18/2019 5:10 PM, van Leusen, P.M. wrote:
Dear Martin,
Would you want to tie the existence of a phase exclusively to E18
Physical Things? One can imagine phases in the development of ideas
as well....
Yes to both. As always, we do not model the term, here "phase", but
try to define a distinct concept we can associate with a clear-cut
"behavior". Physical Things can be thought of as having a simple
trajectory through space-time: Any change makes the previous
disappear. Therefore, substantial evolutionary steps can be
represented with a begin and ending on a time-line.That is a concept I
can perceive as a sort of "phase". Therefore the label.
The evolution of ideas, as any other immaterial thing, does not make
previous ideas disappear. I will be very happy to discuss what phases
of ideas may be confined to, whose they are, what sense of progress
they have, and how we perceive the social effect of ideas we would
associate with phases.
Because of the above considerations, I suggest not to connect a
discussion about "phases of ideas" with "phases of Physical Things"
(which include humans!!). I do not suggest that phases of humans are
restricted to material aspects. In my proposed definition, they may be
due to mental developments, as long as they characterize substantially
the being.
All the best,
Martin
Martijn
On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 8:54 PM Martin Doerr <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Dear All,
Here a first attempt to define "phase":
Exxx Phase
Subclass of: E2 Temporal Entity
Superclass of:E3 Condition State
Scope note:This class comprises phases during the existence and
evolution of an instance of E18 Physical Thing characterized by
an appearance, constitution or a behavior distinct from that in
other times of its existence, or distinct in the evolution of
things of comparable kind, such as the nestling, fledgling,
juvenile and adult forms of birds, but some kinds of phases may
also be consequence of incidental changes such as accidents.
Best,
Martin
--
------------------------------------
Dr. Martin Doerr
Honorary Head of the
Center for Cultural Informatics
Information Systems Laboratory
Institute of Computer Science
Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
Vox:+30(2810)391625
Email:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
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--
Dr. Martijn van Leusen
Associate professor, Landscape Archaeology, Groningen Institute of
Archaeology
Poststraat 6, 9712ER Groningen (Netherlands) / phone +31 50 3636717
Chair, Examination Board for Arts, Culture and Archaeology / Chair,
Faculty of Arts Advisory Board for Data Management policies
Academia page <https://rug.academia.edu/MartijnvanLeusen>
--
------------------------------------
Dr. Martin Doerr
Honorary Head of the
Center for Cultural Informatics
Information Systems Laboratory
Institute of Computer Science
Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
Vox:+30(2810)391625
Email:[email protected]
Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
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