In other words:
If date <= 1951 internally converts to dec 31, 23:59... 1951 , Florian's
solution works out for querying things possibly having happened in this
range. If it converts to jan 1, 0:0, it is wrong. To be checked how all
9 date queries work.
Best,
Martin
On 5/10/2019 8:44 PM, Martin Doerr wrote:
Dear All,
Rob is right.
If we talk about seconds, it is somehow hunting flies. But we really
need to test how databases interpret intervals given in dates.
The conversion to the begin of the year,day / end of the year,day
should be done by the data entry templates, knowing that we
instantiate an ..a or ..b property, and NOT manually. We have written
such modules in the past for RDBMS implementations. Could be a
standard S/W module. Would someone volunteer to provide?
Best,
Martin
On 5/9/2019 11:04 AM, Florian Kräutli wrote:
Dear Rob,
Not having read the guidelines as attentively as you I usually
implement P82a/b suggesting that the begin and end date are both
included in the range.
For example, here's the date related to a book published in 1586:
http://sphaera.mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de/id/item/7e241bb5-41e3-4e08-9ab1-547a93fe6b3d/publication/date
I think this is readable as a confidence interval of the book having
been published somewhen in 1586, lacking better ways to express the
level of accuracy in date datatypes.
Best,
Florian
On 8. May 2019, at 19:50, Robert Sanderson <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Dear all,
I admit I made the rookie mistake of assuming that the P81a/b and
P82a/b properties followed the typical temporal pattern of an
inclusive beginning and an exclusive end.
Or using interval notation: [begin_of_the_begin, end_of_the_end)
Thus if you know that an event happened sometime in 1586, the begin
of the begin would be 1586-01-01T00:00:00 and the end of the end
would be 1587-01-01:00:00:00.
However,http://www.cidoc-crm.org/guidelines-for-using-p82a-p82b-p81a-p81bseems
to clarify that both are exclusive.
> "P82a_begin_of_the_begin" should be instantiated as the latest
point in time the user is sure that the respective temporal
phenomenon is indeed **not yet** happening.
> "P82b_end_of_the_end" should be instantiated as the earliest point
in time the user is sure that the respective temporal phenomenon is
indeed **no longer** ongoing.
And thus (begin_of_the_begin, end_of_the_end)
Meaning that the begin of the begin would need to be
1585-12-31T23:59:59 such that midnight on January first is included
in the range, and the end of the end would be midnight of January
first, 1587.
However, in the following paragraph it says:
> … e.g. 1971 = Jan 1 1971 0:00:00. Respectively, for “P82b_end_of_the_end”
the implementation should “round it up”, e.g. 1971 = Dec 31 1971
23:59:59.
Which would mean that both ends were **included** in the range.
And thus [begin_of_the_begin, end_of_the_end]
So …
Enquiring minds that need to implement this consistently would like
to know which is correct☺
Many thanks!
Rob
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--
------------------------------------
Dr. Martin Doerr
Honorary Head of the
Center for Cultural Informatics
Information Systems Laboratory
Institute of Computer Science
Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
Vox:+30(2810)391625
Email:[email protected]
Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
--
------------------------------------
Dr. Martin Doerr
Honorary Head of the
Center for Cultural Informatics
Information Systems Laboratory
Institute of Computer Science
Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
Vox:+30(2810)391625
Email: [email protected]
Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
