A not uncommon English translation of Frege’s Sinn und Bedeutung is sense and meaning... thus, talking about meaning independent from the reference function is confusing (even if it is done quite a bit, I know, and even if it in some contexts makes sense (macht es auch Sinn?)).
It can be explained, I just wonder if it is worth it when meaning is addressed later on. It would take some additional sentences to make it clear I think. Regards, Øyvind > Am 13.10.2019 um 20:47 schrieb Martin Doerr <[email protected]>: > > Well, what is meant is "meaning as an expression independent from its use as > an appellation for a particular thing". > > What do you think? > > Best, > > Martin > > On 10/13/2019 2:30 PM, Øyvind Eide wrote: >> Dear Martin, >> >> Just one small detail: >> >>> This class comprises signs, either meaningful or not, or arrangements of >>> signs following a specific syntax, […] >> Denotation is commonly connected to the concept of meaning. Thus, even if a >> place name is a series of sounds with no meaning as a word apart from the >> reference function as a place name, the denotation itself gives the >> appellation a certain kind of meaning. >> >> As a discussion of meaning follows in the next paragraph anyway I suggest a >> change to: >> >>> This class comprises signs or arrangements of signs following a specific >>> syntax, […] >> All the best, >> >> Øyvind >> >>> On 12 Oct 2019, at 20:30, Martin Doerr <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Dear All, >>> >>> With the deletion of many subclasses of E41 Appellation here my suggestion >>> for adjustment: >>> >>> NEW: >>> >>> E41 Appellation >>> >>> Subclass of: E90 Symbolic Object >>> >>> Superclass of: E35 Title >>> >>> E42 Identifier >>> >>> Scope note: This class comprises signs, either meaningful or not, >>> or arrangements of signs following a specific syntax, that are used or can >>> be used to refer to and identify a specific instance of some class or >>> category within a certain context. >>> >>> Instances of E41 Appellation do not identify things by their meaning, even >>> if they happen to have one, but instead by convention, tradition, or >>> agreement. Instances of E41 Appellation are cultural constructs; as such, >>> they have a context, a history, and a use in time and space by some group >>> of users. A given instance of E41 Appellation can have alternative forms, >>> i.e., other instances of E41 Appellation that are always regarded as >>> equivalent independent from the thing it denotes. >>> >>> Even though instances of E41 Appellation are not words of a language, >>> different language groups may use different appellations for the same >>> thing, such as the names of major cities. Some appellations may be >>> formulated using a valid noun phrase of a particular language. In these >>> cases, the respective instances of E41 Appellation should also be declared >>> as instances of E33 Linguistic Object. Then the language group using the >>> appellation can be declared with the property P72 has language: E56 >>> Language. >>> >>> Instances of E41 Appellation may be used to identify any instance of E1 >>> CRM Entity and sometimes are characteristic for instances of more specific >>> subclasses E1 CRM Entity, such as for instances of E52 Time-Span (for >>> instance “dates”), E39 Actor, E53 Place or E28 Conceptual Object. Postal >>> addresses and E-mail addresses are characteristic examples of identifiers >>> used by services transporting things between clients. >>> >>> Even numerically expressed identifiers in continua are also regarded as >>> instances of E41 Appellation, such as Gregorian dates or spatial >>> coordinates, even though they allow for determining the time or spot or are >>> they identify by a known procedure starting from a reference point and by >>> virtue of that play a double role as instances of E59 Primitive Value. >>> >>> E41 Appellation should not be confused with the act of naming something. >>> Cf. E15 Identifier Assignment >>> >>> Examples: >>> >>> § "Martin" >>> >>> § "the Forth Bridge" >>> >>> § "the Merchant of Venice" (E35) (McCullough, 2005) >>> >>> § "Spigelia marilandica (L.) L." [not the species, just the name] >>> (Hershberger, Jenkins and Robacker, 2015) >>> >>> § "information science" [not the science itself, but the name through >>> which we refer to it in an English-speaking context] >>> >>> § “安” [Chinese “an”, meaning “peace”] >>> >>> § “6°5’29”N 45°12’13”W” >>> >>> § “Black queen’s bishop 4” [chess coordinate][MD1] >>> >>> § “1900” >>> >>> § “4-4-1959” >>> >>> § “19-MAR-1922” >>> >>> § “19640604”[MD2] >>> >>> § “+41 22 418 5571” >>> >>> § [email protected][MD3] >>> >>> § “Vienna” >>> >>> § “CH-1211, Genève” >>> >>> § “Aquae Sulis Minerva” >>> >>> § “Bath” >>> >>> § “Cambridge” >>> >>> § “the Other Place” >>> >>> § “the City”[MD4] >>> >>> § “1-29-3 Otsuka, Bunkyo-ku, Tokyo, 121, Japan” >>> >>> § “Rue David Dufour 5, CH-1211, Genève”[MD5] >>> >>> § “the entrance lobby to the Ripley Center” >>> >>> § “the poop deck of H.M.S Victory” >>> >>> § “the Venus de Milo’s left buttock” >>> >>> § “left inner side of my box” >>> >>> § “the entrance lobby to the Ripley Center” >>> >>> § “the poop deck of H.M.S Victory” >>> >>> § “the Venus de Milo’s left buttock” >>> >>> § “left inner side of my box”[MD6] >>> >>> § >>> >>> In First Order Logic: >>> >>> E41(x) ⊃ E90(x) >>> >>> [MD1]Transfer of examples from deprecated E47 >>> >>> [MD2]Transfer of examples from E50 Date >>> >>> [MD3]Transfer of examples from E51 Contact Point >>> >>> [MD4]Transfer of examples from E44 Place Appellation >>> >>> [MD5]Transfer of examples from E54 Address >>> >>> [MD6]Transfer of examples from E46 Section definition >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ------------------------------------ >>> Dr. Martin Doerr >>> Honorary Head of the >>> Center for Cultural Informatics >>> Information Systems Laboratory >>> Institute of Computer Science >>> Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) >>> N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, >>> GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece >>> Vox:+30(2810)391625 >>> Email: >>> [email protected] >>> Web-site: >>> http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Crm-sig mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Crm-sig mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig > > > -- > ------------------------------------ > Dr. Martin Doerr > Honorary Head of the > Center for Cultural Informatics > Information Systems Laboratory > Institute of Computer Science > Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) > N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, > GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece > Vox:+30(2810)391625 > Email: [email protected] > Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl > > _______________________________________________ > Crm-sig mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig >
