Dear Martin,With (the usual) apologies for the delay. I am attaching the drawing with the two examples and the super-properties. I have also marked with red arrows how P177 is meant to relate to the range of P34 and P35 based on the scope note of P177.
"The direction of the assigned property of type is understood to be from the attributed item (the range of property P140 assigned attribute to(was attributed by)) to the attribute item (the range of the property P141 assigned (was assigned by))"
If I understand your comment about ambiguity of P177, one could deduct the following statements for the two examples:
enband core (E22) → has damage → condition state of endband cores (E3) cover (E22) → has quality → condition state of cover (E3) or even: enband core (E22) → has damage → [...] broken (E55) cover (E22) → has quality → [...] fine (E55)In that sense: a) there is an equivalence between the two structures and b) the range of P177 always defines a property holding between the range of P34 and P35.
I suppose what might also be worth discussing is the time validity of the condition state in relation to the time of the condition assessment.
Regarding the examples for E3 Condition State, how about the following:the state of the cover of MS Sinai Greek 418 in November 2003 [described as: of type "fine" after assessing it for the property "quality"] (Honey and Pickwoad, 2010)
the state of the endband cores of MS Sinai Greek 418 in November 2003 [described as: of type "broken" after assessing it for the property "damage"] (Honey and Pickwoad, 2010)
All the best, Thanasis On 25/07/2024 15:41, Martin Doerr via Crm-sig wrote:
Dear Thanasi,Nothing wrong with your work! The point is, that the use of P177 is ambiguous for E14 , which points to a condition state. The SIG needs to define for E14 how P177 relates to the type of Condition State and/or if we regard P177 as the type of a shortcut of Condition State, as a kind of "Property Class". I remember that we intended to discuss this, but did not assign HW.Could you make a graphic representation of the examples below, together with the relevant super classes and super properties?Cheers, Martin On 23/7/2024 1:41 π.μ., Athanasios Velios via Crm-sig wrote:Sorry for responding to this late - these are examples I produced from the St. Catherine's condition survey and, as always, happy to improve them if needed. I can see that work is needed in FOL, but, Martin, can you explain a bit more what you mean by inconsistencies in the examples? And what needs to be defined for E14 Condition Assessment? You mean, the type of property assigned?Thank you. Thanasis On 11/07/2024 10:47, Martin Doerr via Crm-sig wrote:Dear All, As to be expected, examination of related examples reveals problems:"P177 assigned property of type" has not been harmonized with the subclasses of E13 Attribute assignment. For E15 Identifier Assignment, E17 Type Assignment, E16 Measurement, this is straightforward, but needs a formulation in FOL and scope notes. For E14 Condition Assessment, this still needs to be defined.The collected examples reveal inconsistent use:the condition assessment of the endband cores of MS Sinai Greek 418 by Nicholas Pickwoad in November 2003 (Honey & Pickwoad, 2010)The condition assessment of the endband cores of MS Sinai Greek 418 (E14) /assigned property of type/ damage (E55.) [‘damage’ refers to a property, external to the CIDOC CRM, which connects an instance of a physical thing like an endband core (E22) to the type of damage (E55) it shows] (Honey & Pickwoad, 2010)The condition assessment of the endband cores of MS Sinai Greek 418 (E14) /concerned/ the endband cores of MS Sinai Greek 418 (E22). (Honey and Pickwoad, 2010)The condition assessment of the endband cores of MS Sinai Greek 418 (E14) /has identified/ the condition state in November 2003 (E3). [which /has type/ broken (E55)] (Honey and Pickwoad, 2010)the condition assessment of the cover of MS Sinai Greek 418 by Nicholas Pickwoad in November 2003 (Honey & Pickwoad, 2010)The condition assessment of the cover of MS Sinai Greek 418 (E14) /assigned property of type/ quality (E55). [‘quality’ refers to a property, external to the CIDOC CRM, which connects an instance of a physical thing like a book cover (E22) to its quality (E55)] (Honey and Pickwoad, 2010)The condition assessment of the cover of MS Sinai Greek 418 (E14) /concerned/ the cover of MS Sinai Greek 418 (E22). (Honey and Pickwoad, 2010)The condition assessment of the cover of MS Sinai Greek 418 (E14) /has identified/ the condition state in November 2003 (E3). [which /has type/ fine (E55)] (Honey and Pickwoad, 2010)Further, these constitute better examples of Condition State than the fictitious ones currently used.Best, Martin -- ------------------------------------ Dr. Martin Doerr Honorary Head of the Center for Cultural Informatics Information Systems Laboratory Institute of Computer Science Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece Email:[email protected] Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> Χωρίς ιούς.www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> _______________________________________________ Crm-sig mailing list [email protected] http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig_______________________________________________ Crm-sig mailing list [email protected] http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
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