Dear Thomas & CRM users,
I am also working on modeling historical humanities data (historical musicology) using CIDOC CRM and Bio CRM. I am not an expert in CIDOC CRM, but I would do: :butler rdf:type ecrm:E21_Person :king_s_household rdf:type ecrm:E74_Group :butler_becoming_king_s_butler rdf:type ecrm:E85_Joining :king_s_household ecrm:P144i_gained_member_by :butler_becoming_king_s_butler :butler_in_king_s_household rdf:type ecrm:E7_Event :butler_in_king_s_household ecrm:P4_has_timespan :butler_in_king_s_household_timespan :butler_in_king_s_household_timespan ecrm:P82a_begin_of_the_begin "xxxx-xx-xx"^^xsd:date :butler_in_king_s_household_timespan ecrm:P82b_end_of_the_end "xxxx-xx-xx"^^xsd:date :butler_leaving_king_s_household rdf:type ecrm:E86_Leaving :butler_leaving_king_s_household ecrm:P14_carried_out_by :butler :king_s_household ecrm:P146i_lost_member_by :butler_leaving_king_s_household :butler_as_occupation rdf:type bioc:Occupation Yu Lee Dr. Yu Lee An (Historical Musicology) (She/Her/Hers) Ph.D. Candidate School of Information and Library Science 216 Lenoir Drive Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3360 E [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [cid:[email protected]] UNC.EDU<http://unc.edu/> > -----Original Message----- > From: Crm-sig <[email protected]> On Behalf Of crm-sig- > [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2024 8:47 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Crm-sig Digest, Vol 211, Issue 9 > > Send Crm-sig mailing list submissions to > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: > Contents of Crm-sig digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: The social context of an E7 Activity (Robert Sanderson) > 2. [Spam:]Re: The social context of an E7 Activity > (Francesco Beretta) > 3. Re: The social context of an E7 Activity > (Christian-Emil Smith Ore) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2024 21:15:33 +0000 > From: Robert Sanderson <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > To: BOTTINI Thomas <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > Cc: Martin Doerr via Crm-sig > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] The social context of an E7 Activity > Message-ID: > > <CABevsUGbqoUZiGipgX2YOxDjXYDFVK11jb4xjvOhSRZBJAJB-<mailto:cabevsugbqouzigipgx2yoxdjxydfvk11jb4xjvohsrzbjaj...@mail.gmail.com> > [email protected]<mailto:cabevsugbqouzigipgx2yoxdjxydfvk11jb4xjvohsrzbjaj...@mail.gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Could you just do something like: > > Person joined Organization in a E85 Joining. > The Joining caused (O13_triggers from Crm Sci) an E7 Activity of being a > Butler (p2_has_type of E55_Type for "butlering" on the Activity). > Person left Organization in a E86 Leaving at the end of the E7. > > Rob > > On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 11:59?AM BOTTINI Thomas via Crm-sig < > crm-<mailto:[email protected]> > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > Hello CRM users ; > > > > > > > > I would like to express (in RDF) that a historical person (an E21) > > held a position in a historical institution (an E74). For example, > > that someone was the king's butler in the king's household. I can > > model the link between the E21 and the E74 with a E85 (when the person > > became butler) and its P144. However, expressing the nature of the > > position (E55 ?Butler) is not easy in RDF because of the Property Class > induced by the P144.1. > > > > I?d rather use an E7 to model the period during which the E21 have > > been the king?s butler. However, I cannot connect the E7 to the E74. > > Is there an elegant way to express the social context in which an > > activity takes place (a link between a E7 and a E74) ? > > > > > > > > Thank you very much, in advance. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > ? Thomas Bottini > > > > Institut de Recherche en Musicologie ? IReMus UMR822 > > _______________________________________________ > > Crm-sig mailing list > > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > > http://cidoc-crm.org/crm-sig-mailing-list > > > > > -- > Rob Sanderson > Senior Director for Digital Cultural Heritage Yale University > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.ics.forth.gr/pipermail/crm-<http://lists.ics.forth.gr/pipermail/crm-sig/attachments/20241125/95f4435f/attachment-0001.html> > sig/attachments/20241125/95f4435f/attachment-0001.html<http://lists.ics.forth.gr/pipermail/crm-sig/attachments/20241125/95f4435f/attachment-0001.html>> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2024 23:44:51 +0100 > From: Francesco Beretta > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > Subject: [Crm-sig] [Spam:]Re: The social context of an E7 Activity > Message-ID: > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" > > Dear Thomas, > > You could consider to use the Social Role Embodiment ? C13 > <https://ontome.net/class/697/namespace/112> class provided in the > Semantic Data for Humanities (SDHSS) Social, legal and economic life > namespace. > > The SDHSS project is about developing an ecosystem of extensions of the > CIDOC CRM that are suitable to model information in different domains of > humanities and social sciences (HSS) research, and connected ones, in > relation to the approaches and views of different disciplines but with > coherence and conformity to CRMbase classes/properties and modelling > principles. > > As Martin writes CRM base provides a minimal, I'd say essential, set of > classes and properties that provides a robust core ontology for trans- > disciplinary data modelling in HSS. To be actually used in HSS research it > needs suitable community and discipline driven extensions. > > Just to be noted: Social Role Embodiment ? C13 > <https://ontome.net/class/697/namespace/112> models the fact of socially > being considered as having the function of butler of the king. Or president of > a state. This is a social phenomenon happening in time. > > If you prefer to model an activity, the spatio-temporal acting in this > service, > you can use crm:E7 Activity but adding the needed additional properties or > sub-classes. We can have a conversation on this if you wish. > > The point is, in my opinion, to avoid convolutions and technical devices like > so-called property classes, but rather, as Martin suggests, to identify the > ontological substance of the classes or properties that are missing in > CRMbase, to add them and to document them publicly, notably in the > ecosystem of SDHSS extensions hosted in OntoME, so that other projects can > join the discussion and adopt the new classes and properties, thus > promoting the straightforward exchange of information between projects > according to the FAIR principles. > > Kind regards > > Francesco > > > > Le 25.11.24 ? 20:07, Martin Doerr via Crm-sig a ?crit?: > > Dear Thomas, > > > > Good question! As a first answer, CRMbase is minimal, deliberately. > > The less possibilities to express something, the more easy is the > > matching of other related content across the globe. CRMbase does not > > offer other constructs. > > > > You should not take the property class as an obstacle. This is a > > question of data entry tools and encoding formats. In principle, the > > 144.1 property class may in future versions or extensions being > > "upgraded" to a kind of activity or merged with some kinds of > > activity. Therefore, the complexity and structure of what you ask for > > and the P144.1 is basically the same. > > > > "to express the social context in which an activity takes place" > > appears to me rather general, I can imagine many different ways in > > which an activity relates to a social context, Serving is different > > from being a criminal, etc. Such constructs are very? interesting to > > study, but one should elaborate the ontological distinctions necessary > > to make this unambiguous. > > > > The Parthenos Entity Model contains a CRM compatible extension of > > service provision. > > > > But I think the concept of dependent work deserves an explicit > > extension, is clear and unambiguous. May be other members have already > > worked on respective extensions, and will answer to your question! > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Martin > > > > > > On 11/25/2024 6:53 PM, BOTTINI Thomas via Crm-sig wrote: > >> > >> Hello?CRM users ; > >> > >> I would like to express (in RDF) that a historical person (an E21) > >> held a position in a historical institution (an E74). For example, > >> that someone was the king's butler in the king's household. I can > >> model the link between the E21 and the E74 with a E85 (when the > >> person became butler) and its P144. However, expressing the nature of > >> the position (E55 ?Butler) is not easy in RDF because of the Property > >> Class induced by the P144.1. > >> > >> I?d rather use an E7 to model the period during which the E21 have > >> been the king?s butler. However, I cannot connect the E7 to the E74. > >> Is there an elegant way to express the social context in which an > >> activity takes place (a link between a E7 and a E74) ? > >> > >> Thank you very much, in advance. > >> > >> -- > >> > >> ?Thomas Bottini > >> > >> Institut de Recherche en Musicologie ? IReMus UMR822 > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Crm-sig mailing list > >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > >> http://cidoc-crm.org/crm-sig-mailing-list > > > > > > -- > > ------------------------------------ > > Dr. Martin Doerr > > > > Honorary Head of the > > Center for Cultural Informatics > > > > Information Systems Laboratory > > Institute of Computer Science > > Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) > > > > N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, > > GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece > > > > Email:[email protected] > > Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Crm-sig mailing list > > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > > http://cidoc-crm.org/crm-sig-mailing-list > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.ics.forth.gr/pipermail/crm-<http://lists.ics.forth.gr/pipermail/crm-sig/attachments/20241125/cd6cee12/attachment-0001.html> > sig/attachments/20241125/cd6cee12/attachment-0001.html<http://lists.ics.forth.gr/pipermail/crm-sig/attachments/20241125/cd6cee12/attachment-0001.html>> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2024 13:43:52 +0000 > From: Christian-Emil Smith Ore > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > To: "[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>" > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] The social context of an E7 Activity > Message-ID: > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > The group trick is possible but was introduced as an ad hock to solve the > problem of relationships between actors e.g families. In my view it is not > good ontological practice and I consider the CRMaaa solution better. > > > Best, > > Christian-Emil > > > ________________________________ > From: Crm-sig > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> on behalf > of Robert > Sanderson via Crm-sig <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > Sent: 25 November 2024 22:15 > To: BOTTINI Thomas > Cc: Martin Doerr via Crm-sig > Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] The social context of an E7 Activity > > > Could you just do something like: > > Person joined Organization in a E85 Joining. > The Joining caused (O13_triggers from Crm Sci) an E7 Activity of being a > Butler (p2_has_type of E55_Type for "butlering" on the Activity). > Person left Organization in a E86 Leaving at the end of the E7. > > Rob > > On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 11:59?AM BOTTINI Thomas via Crm-sig > <crm-<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]> > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>> > wrote: > Hello CRM users ; > > I would like to express (in RDF) that a historical person (an E21) held a > position in a historical institution (an E74). For example, that someone was > the king's butler in the king's household. I can model the link between the > E21 and the E74 with a E85 (when the person became butler) and its P144. > However, expressing the nature of the position (E55 ?Butler) is not easy in > RDF because of the Property Class induced by the P144.1. > I?d rather use an E7 to model the period during which the E21 have been the > king?s butler. However, I cannot connect the E7 to the E74. Is there an > elegant way to express the social context in which an activity takes place (a > link between a E7 and a E74) ? > > Thank you very much, in advance. > > -- > ? Thomas Bottini > Institut de Recherche en Musicologie ? IReMus UMR822 > _______________________________________________ > Crm-sig mailing list > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>> > http://cidoc-crm.org/crm-sig-mailing-list > > > -- > Rob Sanderson > Senior Director for Digital Cultural Heritage Yale University > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.ics.forth.gr/pipermail/crm-<http://lists.ics.forth.gr/pipermail/crm-sig/attachments/20241126/279b026c/attachment.html> > sig/attachments/20241126/279b026c/attachment.html<http://lists.ics.forth.gr/pipermail/crm-sig/attachments/20241126/279b026c/attachment.html>> > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Crm-sig mailing list > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > http://cidoc-crm.org/crm-sig-mailing-list > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Crm-sig Digest, Vol 211, Issue 9 > ***************************************
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