Yeah sorry about the offset. Main point is that no maven or Wtp users would have been able to use the java 8 features unless there had been heroic efforts.
Imo Kepler should have gone out with at least java 8 facets, exec env etc. defined - any j8 specific compiler stuff affected by the licensing game could have been partial/optional enabled. Then the rest of the ecosystem could had taken part. /max http://about.me/maxandersen > On 13 May 2015, at 16:16, Carl Anderson <[email protected]> wrote: > > Max, > > I won't speak to the rest of your timeline, but I will state this: Both the > changes for Luna and the patch for Kepler to provide WTP support of Java 8 > happened at the end of March, 2014- the Kepler patch was immediately > available (see https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=430637 ) and the > Luna support was part of M7 (see > https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=426884 ). You stated that WTP > did not work with the JDT changes in early June... we worked with them in > early April. By the end of June, Luna had been released with full Java 8 > support. (Now, that is still three months after the GA of Java 8, but your > recollection of the timeline was a little off.) > > FWIW, > > - Carl Anderson > WTP Build guy > > "Max Rydahl Andersen" ---05/13/2015 06:27:55 AM---On 12 May 2015, at 20:42, > Carl Anderson wrote: > Max, > > From: "Max Rydahl Andersen" <[email protected]> > To: "Cross project issues" <[email protected]> > Cc: [email protected] > Date: 05/13/2015 06:27 AM > Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] [eclipse-pmc] Proposed schedule > for JDK 9 > Sent by: [email protected] > > > > On 12 May 2015, at 20:42, Carl Anderson wrote: > > > Max, > > > > For Kepler, WTP created a patch to allow for Java 8 usage. That > > patch worked hand-in-hand with the Platform's JDT patch that supported > > Java > > 8. Those were announced at the same time. Developers could download > > and > > install those, and then use Java 8 to develop artifacts within WTP on > > Eclipse Kepler. I would assume that the same would be true for Java 9 > > and > > Eclipse Mars. > > These patches was made available the *same week* JDT when GA, right ? > > There was *zero* releases available the many months before, right ? > > Here is what I recall: > > 2013-2014: > Many months of Java 8 work solely in JDT and available only to those > able and with time to manually compile/build JDT. No projects in or > outside Eclipse could > actually start developing/testing against Java 8. Meanwhile Intellij and > Netbeans > users was on Java 8 just fine. > > Early June 2014: > Java 8 made available in stock JDT. > WTP was not working with it. Neither was m2e. > > WTP was done - Thanks Carl. > m2e was not going to happen, unless we (Fred and I from Red Hat) hadn't > stepped in > and done that work. > > Mid-June 2014: A completely untested (outside of JDT) Java 8 release was > made that > more by chance than actually direction worked in WTP an m2e. > > We (Eclipse) got *ALOT* of flag for not having Java 8 available. And we > still do. > > My assumption is that this was even more reasons for users to leave to > another IDE. > > ...that said overall things worked out, but it was luck. > > Especially since the diff (from a tool vendor pov) between > Java 7 and Java 8 is not that big. Sure, we had to get lambda support in > the language > but beyond that it was more or less business as usual. > > With Java 9 - this is very different update. > > The first one already lifted its head - change in how class loaders > work. > > Next is the module system, classes always available is not there > anymore, no tools.jar anymore, possible talks about multi-versioned > jars, > memory flags now failing start of your app instead of just being > resilient ignored. > > These things will have a *massive* impact on how plugins and users will > need to interact with > Java compared to previous versions. > > If we expect to be able to dump Java 9 support into JDT and expect all > plugins and users setup "just work" > as done with Java 7 to Java 8 then I think we are being rather naive. > > And because of these changes being rather intrusive into IDE's we are > again looking at > something that will make it even more relevant for users and heck, even > plugin developers to go > look at intellij and netbeans to actually start work with Java 9. > > So yeah, I think it would be disastrous if we cannot find a way to get > earlier Java 9 support > into JDT and the eco-system before the official GA of Java 9. > > /max > > > FWIW, > > > > - Carl Anderson > > WTP Build guy > > > > > > > > From: "Max Rydahl Andersen" <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Cc: Cross project issues <[email protected]> > > Date: 05/12/2015 02:27 PM > > Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] [eclipse-pmc] Proposed > > schedule > > for JDK 9 > > Sent by: [email protected] > > > > > > > > On 12 May 2015, at 13:07, Daniel Megert wrote: > > > >> The licenses haven't changed. > > > > Afaik EclipseLink releases from Eclipse.org under same license earlier > > or is that wrong ? > > > >> This means as with Java 8, we will provide > >> feature patches that can be installed on top of 4.5.x. > > > > Made available from where ? > > > > How can projects like WTP use these ? > > > > /max > > > > > >> > >> Dani > >> > >> > >> > >> From: "Max Rydahl Andersen" <[email protected]> > >> To: [email protected] > >> Cc: Cross project issues <[email protected]> > >> Date: 12.05.2015 12:12 > >> Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] [eclipse-pmc] Proposed > >> schedule for JDK 9 > >> Sent by: [email protected] > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> ICYMI, Java 9 is now releasing September 2016. > >> > >> I'm less worried about *running* Eclipse on Java 9 than I am about > >> supporting *developing* Java 9 apps *with* Eclipse. > >> > >> Any plans on avoiding the issue we had with Java 8 support not being > >> available in Eclipse until actual Java 8 GA date ? > >> > >> Other IDE's already has some basic support for developing with Java > >> 9. > >> > >> /max > >> > >>> Mike Milinkovich > >>> [email protected] > >>> +1.613.220.3223 > >>> Original Message > >>> From: [email protected] > >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 12:22 PM > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Subject: Proposed schedule for JDK 9 > >>> > >>> Here is a proposed schedule for JDK 9: > >>> > >>> 2015-12-10 Feature Complete > >>> 2016-02-04 All Tests Run > >>> 2016-02-25 Rampdown Start > >>> 2016-04-21 Zero Bug Bounce > >>> 2016-06-16 Rampdown Phase 2 > >>> 2016-07-21 Final Release Candidate > >>> 2016-09-22 General Availability > >>> > >>> The dates here are meant to leave sufficient time for broad review > >>> and > >>> testing of the significant features of the release, in particular > >>> the > >>> introduction of a module system and the modularization of the > >>> platform, > >>> while maintaining the cadence of shipping a major release about > >>> every > >>> two years. > >>> > >>> The milestone definitions are the same as those for JDK 8 [1]. > >>> > >>> Comments from JDK 9 Committers are welcome, as are reasoned > >>> objections. > >>> If no such objections are raised by 23:00 UTC next Tuesday, 12 May, > >>> or > >>> if they're raised and then satisfactorily answered, then per the JEP > >>> 2.0 > >>> process proposal [2] this will be adopted as the schedule for JDK 9. > >>> > >>> (This information is also available on the JDK 9 Project Page [3]). > >>> > >>> - Mark > >>> > >>> > >>> [1] http://openjdk.java.net/projects/jdk8/milestones#definitions > >>> [2] http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~mr/jep/jep-2.0-02.html > >>> [3] http://openjdk.java.net/projects/jdk9/ > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> eclipse-pmc mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or > >>> unsubscribe from this list, visit > >>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc > >> > >> > >> /max > >> http://about.me/maxandersen > >> _______________________________________________ > >> cross-project-issues-dev mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or > >> unsubscribe > >> from this list, visit > >> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev > >> _______________________________________________ > >> eclipse-pmc mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or > >> unsubscribe from this list, visit > >> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc > > > > > > /max > > http://about.me/maxandersen > > _______________________________________________ > > cross-project-issues-dev mailing list > > [email protected] > > To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or > > unsubscribe > > from this list, visit > > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev > > > > _______________________________________________ > > cross-project-issues-dev mailing list > > [email protected] > > To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or > > unsubscribe from this list, visit > > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev > > > /max > http://about.me/maxandersen > _______________________________________________ > cross-project-issues-dev mailing list > [email protected] > To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from > this list, visit > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > cross-project-issues-dev mailing list > [email protected] > To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from > this list, visit > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev
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