On 08:52 PM 07/22/02 -0500, Laura C. Tennant said... >Here's the story: On Friday afternoon my car cranked and cranked but >wouldn't start. I was really low on gas. I mean, I've been lower, but it >was really low. So, I took my bf's car and didn't worry about >it. Saturday evening we got a gallon of gas in my little gas can. Once I >put it in, the car started fine and I drove it around the parking lot. A >few hours later (about 1am) I took the car to the gas station to fill it >up for real. It started fine when I left the apartment but after I filled >up, it again cranked but didn't want to start. I've had this car for 99k >miles and the *only* times it has left me stranded are when I've left the >lights on and killed the battery or run over something in the road and >punctured the tire. So, I had a little chat with the car and it started >on the third try, albeit with more cranking than usual. The car sat all >day Sunday and until about 7pm today. When I went to start it this >evening, it took three tries again. The battery is only a few months old >but as far as I know, the rest of the ignition system is original. I >believe I had the fuel filter replaced around 82k miles but the fuel pump, >etc. is original. I've read on this forum before that I should hear my >fuel pump when I turn the key to the "on" position but I never had been >able to. I do, however, hear the click when the check engine light goes >off. This sounds like main relay to me but isn't that supposed to be >worse when it's hot out? I'd like to get you guys' thoughts before I go >out and throw money at the problem. Thanks! > >Laura C. Tennant >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >1990 CRX DX, 161k miles
Relay's in general can fail in "regular/normal" temperatures. It's just not as common. A mechanical relay, like the main relay, is nothing more than a magnet. When current is applied, it attracts the other contact thus completing the circuit. Since I don't think that the main relay is hermetically sealed, humidity and other conditions that can cause a degree of condensation to take place inside the relay is generally what kills a mechanical relay; rust and corrosion. This is why tapping on a relay will sometimes get it to work again. Usually if you have to do this, it's time to replace the relay. Sometimes the contacts inside the relay will actually not let go of each other when the current is shut off. I had this problem with the very first Porsche 914 we owned. Both of the front headlight assemblies have their own relays to control the motor to flip the headlight up or down; it's a timed relay meaning that when it gets power, it keeps the circuit *hot* for x-seconds and then shuts down. Since they were located at the motor, they were exposed to the outside temperatures and conditions and they rusted. I had one that when it did make contact, it did not always want to turn itself off and so I had a headlight that would open and close over and over until I popped the hood and pulled the relay. :^) Anyway, I've seen (and experienced) some relays where when they would get in a "stuck" condition that I did not notice it until later. Usually when the battery was drained to the point where it couldn't start the car. This happened on a relay that basically functions like the main relay used in the CRX. I eventually discovered it when I was poking around the fuse panel to try and troubleshoot the problem and I touched the relay and found the body to be warm when it shouldn't have been. When I pulled said relay and ran my meter across the terminal I found that the contacts where still engaged. When I tapped on the side of the relay, it eventually let go. While I wouldn't rule out the main relay, I would look to the ECU for any error codes it may throw during the hard start. In other words, the next time it happens, where it doesn't fire up on the first attempt (and perhaps even the second), I would check the ECU. I would also ask when was the last time a complete tune up was done (including a valve check/adjust). On another car I had, which had mechanical valves like the CRX, I actually had the valves work themselves loose and eventually they "self-adjusted" themselves to an almost closed position and so the engine could not start. A compression check is how I found the condition. Someone mentioned checking/replacing the cap and rotor. I would start there first, IMHO. Or at least pull the cap and look at the four contacts. Then look at the one in the middle. This is the one that connects the coil (I think it's called the "carbon point"). It's spring loaded and if you're very careful you can give it a slight pull so that it makes good contact with the rotor. I had this problem once with a brand new cap and rotor kit from the dealer. The engine fired up and when it came up to temp, I went to back out of the driveway to take it around the block when the engine just shutdown. Wouldn't fire back up. So I checked the ECU which thew an error code that related to the ignition system. Popped the cap to check the rotor to make sure it didn't come loose and then I gave the carbon point a slight pull to make sure it was making good contact. The engine then fired back up again. So now when I do a cap and rotor, I make sure to give the carbon point a slight pull. :^) You may also want to try resetting the ECU (http://www.crx.org/southcal/tech/igniter/tach.htm). I would also check the grounds. A bad/weak ground can cause hard starting. One of the easiest things you can do is clean up the contacts at the battery (both positive and negative posts) and clean up where the negative cable attaches to the body/frame (remove the bolt, clean up the mounting surface and re-attach). Vapor lock is another condition that can cause the problem you're having. Typically this happens when it is hot outside and often times opening the gas cap will break the lock. On the other hand, a bad fuel cap that is not sealing the air out can also cause problems (on some cars such as the Dodge Intrepid, the engine won't idle at all). How about your fuel filter? When was it last changed? I suppose you could also have a bad Igniter (http://www.crx.org/southcal/tech/igniter/default.htm). That's about all I can think of. I would start with doing a tune up and then rechecking your battery connections. BOL! Robert K. Kuhn CRX Owners Group President (http://www.crx.org/southcal) 1990 Honda CRXsi (http://drive.to/jiggy) ICQ # 3714283 (nickname: godzilla)
