Cryptography-Digest Digest #737, Volume #9 Sat, 19 Jun 99 09:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: rc4 vs. rand() ("Roger Schlafly")
Re: DES Encryption Function and an MLP ("Earl Cox")
VIC cipher now described on web site (John Savard)
More on Chaos ("John E. Kuslich")
Re: test ("Erik Avat'R")
Re: test ("Erik Avat'R")
Re: Phone scrambler : what encryption used ? ("Major Wood")
Re: SLIDE ATTACK FAILS ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Question about Cryptography/Encryption... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: GA and 64-bit XOR Encryption (James Pate Williams, Jr.)
IDEA Questions (Casey Sybrandy)
Re: SLIDE ATTACK FAILS ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
D - CD-R crypt (Dupavoy)
Re: D - CD-R crypt ("Steven Alexander")
Re: RSA example with small numbers (Dan Moschuk)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Roger Schlafly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: rc4 vs. rand()
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 14:10:48 -0700
Aidan Skinner wrote in message ...
>>keep it trade secret for a while, but it was released into the public
>>domain several years ago.
>
>Has The Company accepted this yet? Just curious.
Yes. There are companies that have been using the RC4 algorithm
freely, openly, and without objection for several years.
------------------------------
From: "Earl Cox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.ai.neural-nets
Subject: Re: DES Encryption Function and an MLP
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 18:34:05 -0400
Doug, you have my vote!
Conference proceedings, academic books, and papers are filled with complex
solutions to toy problems. I just made a similar comment about evolutionary
programming. I must have a two inch thick stack of EP papers on evolving
LISP programs to solve toy problems (like solving a quadratic function),
some with words like "A Real Word Approach to..." where "real world" means
that the grad student was assigned the problem by his/her professor.
Well, I don't mean to belabor the point. I just seldom find someone else in
the group who knows the difference between the real world and academic
exercises.
Earl
Douglas A. Gwyn wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>fungus wrote:
>> That was an interestign project. How much progress did you actually
>> make? Did you ever manage to solve DES for small number of rounds?
>
>I'm absolutely not interested in applying the methodology to toy
>problems, except as a debugging aid. The problem with starting
>out with the idea of using toys is that one tends to develop methods
>that don't scale well to the real problems.
*************************** http://www.metus.com *************************
Earl D. Cox Fuzzy Logic and Computational Intelligence
CEO/President Software, Consulting, Training
Metus Systems Data Mining and Intelligent Rule Discovery
Chapel Hill, NC C/C++ Java Visual Basic
(919) 859-1736 (vox) Exploring the Mind of Business....
(919) 851-3525 (fax)
**************************************************************************
AUTHOR:
"The Fuzzy Systems Handbook" (1994)
"Fuzzy Logic for Business and Industry" (1995)
"Beyond Humanity: CyberEvolution and Future Minds"
(1996, with Greg Paul, Paleontologist/Artist)
"The Fuzzy Systems Handbook, 2nd Ed." (1998)
"Fuzzy Tools for Data Mining and Knowledge Discovery"
(due Early Summer, 1999)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Savard)
Subject: VIC cipher now described on web site
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 22:34:40 GMT
Over the past few days, I've been making a number of minor changes and
additions to the paper-and-pencil ciphers portion of my web site. The
first one I already mentioned, which also accompanied a change in the
section on teletypewriter ciphers: I mentioned the one-time-pad.
Since then, I made a number of other changes, ranging from a
one-letter correction of an example in the section on transposition
ciphers to the addition of a new diagram of my cipher wheel invention.
As there is some interest in secure paper and pencil ciphers, I now
added a new section to the paper and pencil chapter describing the
"hollow nickel" cipher: it's at
http://members.xoom.com/quadibloc/pp0104.htm
and of course the information was obtained from the works of David
Kahn, which are credited.
John Savard ( teneerf<- )
http://members.xoom.com/quadibloc/crypto.htm
------------------------------
From: "John E. Kuslich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: More on Chaos
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 07:16:10 -0700
There is a beautiful book on fractals with some incredible plates. If
fractal graphics turns you on, this is a book you should own.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0387158510/craksoftwarpassw
JK
--
CRAK Software (Password Recovery Software)
Http://www.crak.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
602 863 9274 or 1 800 505 2725 In the USA
------------------------------
From: "Erik Avat'R" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: test
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 01:39:14 +0300
You mean that you dont use any shield when downloading anything?
That is truly dangerous I am sorry....wont happen again....here.
David Wadsworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:VLRB$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
> >On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:57:29 +0300, "Erik Avat'R"
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>And why not post in HTML??
> >>If you cant read it buy yourself a new computer.....
> >Because many people run newsreaders (like mine) that don't
> >automaticaly read HTML, or use DejaNews etc; posting in html is
> >inconvenient, nonstandard (HTML 2.0,5.0, JS, ActiveX etc) and
> >unneccesary!
> >
> >
> >Jim
>
> And HTML could introduce the possibility of downloading and executing
> malicious programs without warning, especially if you are using Office
> 2000. It is probably safer to delete any HTML postings in news groups,
> you won't miss anything important in my experience
>
> Cheers
> --
> David Wadsworth | Tonto.... I've got a feeling we're not in Kansas
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] | anymore .....The Lone Ranger of Oz
>
------------------------------
From: "Erik Avat'R" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: test
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 01:41:25 +0300
Firstly sorry about the computer thing.....
was being a jerk...
and if you dont mind me asking what do you mean by "...HTML practically
posts your article twice..."?
Gergo Barany <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <7kbn9k$49f$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Erik Avat'R wrote:
> >And why not post in HTML??
>
> Not all newsreaders decode HTML. Usenet is a text medium, HTML is
> considered a binary format which belongs into a binary group. You could
> even try to dig up this group's charter, I'm sure it mentions what
> formats are recommended for this group.
> Also, HTML practically posts your article twice, thus wasting valuable
> bandwidth. Those of us using ordinary phone modems lose time and money
> downloading redundant information.
>
> >If you cant read it buy yourself a new computer.....
>
> I have a reasonably new computer, I could read HTML posts if I wanted
> to. But firing up a GUI just so I can see how creative your newsreader's
> programmers were is a waste of time, IMHO.
>
> Gergo
>
> --
> New Year's Eve is the time of year when a man most feels his age, and
> his wife most often reminds him to act it.
> -- Webster's Unafraid Dictionary
>
> GU d- s:+ a--- C++>$ UL+++ P>++ L+++ E>++ W+ N++ o? K- w--- !O !M !V
> PS+ PE+ Y+ PGP+ t* 5+ X- R>+ tv++ b+>+++ DI+ D+ G>++ e* h! !r !y+
------------------------------
From: "Major Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Phone scrambler : what encryption used ?
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 18:52:49 -0500
> How about this one :
> Cycomm's Cellular Security Devices (CSDs)
> at http://www.att.com/press/1195/951101.mma.html
Hee hee! That one doesn't work worth a damn, but it IS digital. The vocoder
is RELP (which sounds like crap) and the cipher is everyone's favorite:
Skipjack! Yes, that's right boys and girls, this thing has the MYK77 Clipper
chip in it! So not only do you get a product that doesn't work (gee, I
wonder why it was discontinued), you get all the security offered by the
government's bogus attempt at mandatory key escrow. How much did NSA slip
these guys under the table to make this thing? Now go out and buy a million
;) What, me sarcastic? - MW
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: SLIDE ATTACK FAILS
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 23:38:39 GMT
<snip>
Well just because your cipher is difficult to follow, read, understand,
implement, use doesn't mean people have to like it. Just because
people don't like it doesn't mean they hate you.
Just because the slide attack didn't work doesn't mean the attack
is 'weak'. It means the attack doesn't work. That's all.
You seem to think your are something special in this group, and that is
sad. Try to be more objective about things, you will get more done.
Tom
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Question about Cryptography/Encryption...
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 23:45:55 GMT
In article <7j99v9$351s$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (SCOTT19U.ZIP_GUY) wrote:
> Well belive it. Younger minds generally have less trouble
understainding
> new concepts. Why do you think the NSA mostly hires PhD mathematicans
> straight out if school. They have more flexable minds and can see
patterns
> quicker. As they age they learn to be shoved in to molds and there
thinking
> becomes limited. Yes I think a young person could follow my code much
> quicker than some one who can only follow narrow structures and lacks
the
> creative thought of inquisitive young.
I have to agree to disagree. I wouldn't suggest C code for starting,
even the wonderfull RC5/Blowfish (and many others). I would recommend
papers howeve. The books are harder to get, but the papers are all
over the place. I would also start with papers on cryptanalysis to see
how weaknesses can appear in ciphers.
Going with your msg, I think you are describing my 'student paradox'...
It is so true.
Tom
--
PGP key is at:
'http://mypage.goplay.com/tomstdenis/key.pgp'.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (James Pate Williams, Jr.)
Crossposted-To: comp.ai.genetic
Subject: Re: GA and 64-bit XOR Encryption
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 00:47:58 GMT
Attempting to break the 64-bit exclusive or (XOR) cipher
using a genetic algorithm (GA) and one known plaintext-
ciphertext pair:
C = P xor K = two 32-bit integers
where C is the ciphertext, K is the key, and P is the plaintext
Fitness_i = | C - P xor K_i | = a double precision real number
union Double {
double db;
int in[2];
};
GA
randomly choose POPULATION keys, K_i
generations = 0
while generations < MAXIMUM and not satisfied
tournament select two keys as parents
perform Radcliffe's (flat) crossover to create a child
perform Gaussian mutation on the child with rate
MUTATION_RATE
evaluate the child's fitness
if child's fitness = 0 return child as the found key
replace worst individual
selection sort the population to check for convergence
I believe the above would be classified as a steady-state GA.
In my C implementation I have the following adjustable parameters:
EPSILON 1e-8 /* convergence criterion */
MAXIMUM 50000 /* maximum number of generations */
MUTATION_RATE 0.1 /* Gaussian mutation rate */
POPULATION 50 /* GA population size */
STANDARD 0.005 /* Gaussian mutation standard deviation */
I am having problems with premature convergence, and currently the GA
seems to perform about as well as randomly guessing key bits.
Any citizen of the United States of America, currently residing in the
U. S. , can obtain a C implementation of the preceding algorithm to
play with by e-mailing me at the following address and requesting
xor.c. Sorry U. S. goverenment regutions for not permit the export of
source code that could be used for encryption, this also includes
extermely weak encryption.
==Pate Williams==
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.mindspring.com/~pate
------------------------------
From: Casey Sybrandy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: IDEA Questions
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 22:25:11 -0400
I have a couple questions about IDEA that I was wondering if anyone knew
the answer to. I'll be referencing AC2 pages 320&321 instead of trying
to redescribe everything on my own.
1. Steps 5, 6, 11-14 all use XOR. Why can't you change these to
additions or subtractions?
2. In steps 7-10, there is a mixing of additions and multiplications.
Why can't you add in some data dependency into this mixing, like data
dependant rotates?
I'm pretty sure there's some mathematical reasoning behind the design, I
just haven't found it anywhere.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: SLIDE ATTACK FAILS
Date: 19 Jun 1999 02:25:39 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
><snip>
>
>Well just because your cipher is difficult to follow, read, understand,
>implement, use doesn't mean people have to like it. Just because
>people don't like it doesn't mean they hate you.
>
>Just because the slide attack didn't work doesn't mean the attack
>is 'weak'. It means the attack doesn't work. That's all.
>
>You seem to think your are something special in this group, and that is
>sad. Try to be more objective about things, you will get more done.
Ever notice how much Mr. DSCOTT uses projection as a defense mechanism? He
goes off about how the NSA is shrouded in secrecy and yet fails to produce
an easy-to-understand flow chart of his code. He attacks other people as
"hating" him, when really he's the one that hates the rest of the world.
--
Lamont Granquist ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
ICBM: 47 39'23"N 122 18'19"W
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dupavoy)
Subject: D - CD-R crypt
Date: 19 Jun 1999 02:51:45 GMT
I would like to know if its possible to
encrypt files stored on a CD-RW just
as its possible to do so on a ZIP or a
floppy?
------------------------------
From: "Steven Alexander" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: D - CD-R crypt
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 21:21:01 -0700
It should be. However, with the current speed(1x, 2x, 4x) of most CD-RW
drives it would be very slow.
-steven
Dupavoy wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>
>I would like to know if its possible to
>encrypt files stored on a CD-RW just
>as its possible to do so on a ZIP or a
>floppy?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dan Moschuk)
Subject: Re: RSA example with small numbers
Date: 19 Jun 1999 00:47:00 -0500
|> "bc" says (433^317) % 851 = 10.
|> Looks to me like you're OK -- check that last step again.
|
|Curious, what is 'bc'? Is that one of them GNU large num libraries?
bc is really neat. It is an arbitrary precision calculator language/program.
Observe.
eleventh:~> echo "1 + 1" | bc
2
eleventh:~> echo "2 ^ 56" | bc
72057594037927936
eleventh:~> echo "scale=20; 4*a(1)" | bc -l
3.14159265358979323844
Regards,
Dan
------------------------------
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