Cryptography-Digest Digest #24, Volume #10 Tue, 10 Aug 99 15:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Between Silk & Cyanide - two questions (Phoeper)
Re: How to keep crypto DLLs Secure? ("Simon Dainty")
Re: Between Silk & Cyanide - two questions (John Savard)
Re: NIST AES FInalists are.... (Bruce Schneier)
Re: AES finalists to be announced (Bruce Schneier)
Re: AES finalists to be announced (Bruce Schneier)
Re: Techweb crypto comedy... (John Savard)
Re: Between Silk & Cyanide - two questions (Jim Gillogly)
Re: NIST AES FInalists are.... (Helger Lipmaa)
Need decrypt Diskreet disk (NU 8.0) or calculate password ("Vasiliy Khalak")
Need decrypt Diskreet disk (NU 8.0) or calculate password ("Vasiliy Khalak")
Re: Why does MS-Visual C++ ABSOLUTELY REQUIRE . . . (Pretty Boy Mohandas)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Phoeper)
Subject: Between Silk & Cyanide - two questions
Date: 10 Aug 1999 17:01:20 GMT
Just finished the book, and two questions occurred to me:
1. Several times, Marks states that a MINIMUM message size is required - why
should giving the cryptanalyst more text reduce the chances of breaking the
message?
2. In the appendix on charting the 'fist' of WT operators, what do the graphs
indicate? The axes are not labelled and it is not clear (to me, anyway) what
they mean.
Thanks,
Phil
------------------------------
From: "Simon Dainty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How to keep crypto DLLs Secure?
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 17:31:11 +0100
Martijn van der Kooij wrote in message <7omopg$hk0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>> The only sure way to have moderate crypto security is to have the crypto
>> directly inside the compiled EXE, and not within the DLL. I would
>> appreciate comments.
>
>One way to be sure the dll is not replaced is to use a hash or crc on the
>dll. Store the CRC value in the exe and when loading the dll compare its
crc
>with this value. You maybe need a few different values if there are
>different versions of the dll.
If someone is going to go to all the effort of replacing the DLL with a fake
DLL, then surely they're willing to go that extra step and reverse engineer
the
executable if need be?
There is no viable security for software today.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Savard)
Subject: Re: Between Silk & Cyanide - two questions
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 17:40:54 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Phoeper) wrote, in part:
>1. Several times, Marks states that a MINIMUM message size is required - why
>should giving the cryptanalyst more text reduce the chances of breaking the
>message?
One of the cipher systems discussed is a transposition cipher. For that one -
not for the one-time-pad cipher - messages that are too small could give away
some information.
John Savard ( teneerf<- )
http://www.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/crypto.htm
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bruce Schneier)
Subject: Re: NIST AES FInalists are....
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 17:30:22 GMT
On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 01:30:21 GMT, "Douglas A. Gwyn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>At what point are competent NSA cryptanalysts going to be brought
>into the process, so we can get a soundly based estimate of security?
I believe the NSA is already analyzing the AES submissions, but I
don't believe that "we" will ever get the results of that analysis.
Bruce
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN 55419 Fax: 612-823-1590
Free crypto newsletter. See: http://www.counterpane.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bruce Schneier)
Subject: Re: AES finalists to be announced
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 17:34:40 GMT
On Mon, 9 Aug 1999 19:16:23 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Larry
Kilgallen) wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bruce Schneier)
>writes:
>
>> RC6 is suprisingly slow on the Pentium and other simple 32-bit
>> computers. It is fast on the Pentium Pro, Pentium II, and Pentium
>> III. It is very suprisingly slow on the new Intel processors that
>> will be coming out over the next few years.
>
>Hey, you can't have it both ways !
>
>If you are able to predict performance on future processors,
>then it can't be _surprisingly_. :-)
I suppose. But I was suprised.
Bruce
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN 55419 Fax: 612-823-1590
Free crypto newsletter. See: http://www.counterpane.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bruce Schneier)
Subject: Re: AES finalists to be announced
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 17:35:13 GMT
On Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:41:48 -0700, "Jai.Dee"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Bruce,
>
>Can you give some details on why you expect it to run so slow on future
>processors? I am assuming that you are talking about Merced and Willamette
>(I think those are the only new processors that Intel has announced).
>
>Is it a lack of parallelism, thrashing the cache, or some kind of glass jaw
>in the processor?
It's the inefficiency of the multiplication when paired with other
operations.
I hope we will have a paper on this before the third AES workshop.
Bruce
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN 55419 Fax: 612-823-1590
Free crypto newsletter. See: http://www.counterpane.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Savard)
Subject: Re: Techweb crypto comedy...
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 17:44:58 GMT
John Myre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote, in part:
>fungus wrote:
>> Anybody have the slightest idea where the number "34035"
>> came from?
>The press release from the AES home site:
>http://csrc.nist.gov/encryption/aes/round2/AESpressrelease-990809.pdf
>claims that 128 key gives you "...(340 followed by 36 zeroes)..."
>keys (after writing it out, 340,000,000, etc.).
>So it looks like a misunderstanding *and* a typo...
Ah, so it's a typo for 3400 * 10^35, I guess you could say.
John Savard ( teneerf<- )
http://www.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/crypto.htm
------------------------------
From: Jim Gillogly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Between Silk & Cyanide - two questions
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:46:09 +0000
Phoeper wrote:
> 2. In the appendix on charting the 'fist' of WT operators, what do the graphs
> indicate? The axes are not labelled and it is not clear (to me, anyway) what
> they mean.
I can't tell either, but I'll hazard a guess. The main elements of
"fist" are the length of the elements (dots and dashes), the
intra-character spacing of the elements, and the inter-character
spaces. I'm guessing the charts show the first two.
Perhaps Harry I's A is composed of a dit that's much shorter than
average for this speed, an intra-character space that's a little
longer than average, and a dash that's spot on the average. I'm
guessing the bold dots on the graph are the relative length of the
element, and the non-dot points are the relative length of the
intra-character gaps.
If this is correct, then Harry II sounds much different, with
consistently relatively very short gaps between Morse elements.
--
Jim Gillogly
Highday, 18 Wedmath S.R. 1999, 18:40
12.19.6.7.16, 8 Cib 4 Yaxkin, Third Lord of Night
------------------------------
From: Helger Lipmaa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: NIST AES FInalists are....
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:13:55 +0000
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I think MARS made it for a few reasons.
>
> 1. If I remember correctly, it is one of the faster ciphers available.
> Smart cards may be an exception.
You remember wrongly. Cf http://home.cyber.ee/helger/aes. Speedwise, it's
fifth cipher for Pentium II, and sixth cipher if to average the data for
P2, Alpha and SPARC.
> 2. I forget where I read it, but apparently it uses just about every
> trick in the book to make it secure.
'about every trick' sounds tricky, doesn't it? The cipher was apparently
designed by several different people, and all the ideas were poored in. The
result may be secure but it looks ugly.
> 3. This is what I like most about the cipher, the layaring of rounds.
> MARS has three layars, forward mixing, cryptographic core, and backwards
> mixing.
It looks nice. How much it actually helps, is another question. Hopefully
there will be some analysis done during the next few years.
> > Personally I think the top two ciphers should be RC6 and Twofish. My
See http://csrc.nist.gov/encryption/aes/round1/conf2/feedback-summary.pdf
about what the specialists thought during a poll made in AES2 conference.
> > I don't see that as a security compromise. Twofish was just designed
> > by some really smart people.
Wrong argument. DEAL was designed by Lars Knudsen who's far more
influential than any of the designers (never IQ-tested them, so cannot say
anything about smartness) of Twofish in the block cipher scene. SAFER+ is
designed by Massey, who is _very_, _very_ famous (he's one of the designers
of IDEA, for example). Still, neither candidate had actually any chances in
the competition (but note that Lars has another submittion---Serpent).
Helger
------------------------------
From: "Vasiliy Khalak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Need decrypt Diskreet disk (NU 8.0) or calculate password
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:57:57 +0300
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Hello!
My BIGgest problem:=20
Need decrypt Diskreet disk (NU 8.0) or calculate password
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=======_NextPart_000_0014_01BEE37B.692E5800==
------------------------------
From: "Vasiliy Khalak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Need decrypt Diskreet disk (NU 8.0) or calculate password
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:58:05 +0300
Hello!
My BIGgest problem:
Need decrypt Diskreet disk (NU 8.0) or calculate password
Dear professionals, CAN you help me?
------------------------------
From: Pretty Boy Mohandas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.c++
Subject: Re: Why does MS-Visual C++ ABSOLUTELY REQUIRE . . .
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 14:09:50 +0600
David Goodenough wrote:
> 1. It has a command line window where you can type in useful commands
> to do useful things.
Great point. Plus, you can plug in custom extensions. CodeView used to
be like that, but MS know better what we, stupid people, need. It is
clearly IE <g>. Otoh, windbg is quirky.
--
len
if you must email, reply to:
len bel at world net dot att dot net (no spaces, ats2@, dots2.)
------------------------------
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