Cryptography-Digest Digest #778, Volume #10 Tue, 21 Dec 99 14:13:01 EST
Contents:
Re: Q: transcendental pad crypto (Lincoln Yeoh)
Re: firmware encryption? (Volker Hetzer)
Re: Code Puzzle (John Savard)
Re: RST discovers defective crypto in Netscape mail password saver ("Roger Schlafly")
Re: firmware encryption? (Guy Macon)
Re: Keystrokes monitored/encryption useless (Medical Electronics Lab)
Good way to one-way encrypt? (Christoffer =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lern=F6?=)
Re: compression & encryption (Kenneth Almquist)
Re: How do you know if you found a key? (Paul Koning)
Re: Good way to one-way encrypt? (NFN NMI L.)
Re: QPK (Medical Electronics Lab)
Implementing ElGamal ("Rowland Smith")
Re: Come visit Forest Hills, NY...home of Dimitry Vulis. (Günter Bergmän)
Re: Good way to one-way encrypt? (Scott Nelson)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Lincoln Yeoh)
Subject: Re: Q: transcendental pad crypto
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:21:29 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, 20 Dec 1999 18:31:19 -0500, "dls2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Physics! Physics is arguably predictable, i.e. non-random. So
>how is its use really so different from the use of transcendental
>numbers?
Given that you know I'm rolling a 6 sided die, can you tell me which side
is going to come up, even after I give you the results of the past 1000
throws?
Compare that to knowing that I'm using a transcendental number and being
given the past 1000 numbers.
Cheerio,
Link.
****************************
Reply to: @Spam to
lyeoh at @[EMAIL PROTECTED]
pop.jaring.my @
*******************************
------------------------------
From: Volker Hetzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: firmware encryption?
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:29:32 +0000
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Depending on the level of security you need you could try XORing it with
> the code you are replacing.
I recommend against this. The level of security should be high enough
to force the attacker to disassemble the device. XOR'ing one piece
of data with another is much too easy to read.
Greetings!
Volker
--
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Savard)
Subject: Re: Code Puzzle
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:31:26 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rich Lafferty) wrote, in part:
>When all else fails, google!
Yes: I've been trying to get my site to be fully indexed by AltaVista
again for some time, but have been unsuccessful so far, although I'm
still waiting for my table of contents to get spidered there.
But
http://www.google.com/
http://infoseek.go.com/
http://www.excite.com/
at least have my current site fully indexed, even if I've been
unsuccessful with the better-known search engines (HotBot and Lycos as
well as AltaVista).
John Savard (jsavard<at>ecn<dot>ab<dot>ca)
http://www.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/crypto.htm
------------------------------
From: "Roger Schlafly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: RST discovers defective crypto in Netscape mail password saver
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 08:40:08 -0800
Ken Lamquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:83mvtk$61g$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> According to the RST web page, RST does consulting for firms which
> want to improve the security of their software. I have no way of
> knowing the quality of this consulting work. If their advice to
> companies relying on security through obscurity is simply to make the
> software more obscure--even if the software contains other holes so
> that penetrating the existing obscurity is not the most efficient
> course of action for an attacker--then the risks are obvious.
Yes, the RST folks seem to have some misunderstandings
about what cryptography is for. Besides your point, Netscape
makes its source code available. I don't know whether the source
code to the email piece is available, but if it is, then a fancier
encryption algorithm wouldn't even add any obscurity.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Guy Macon)
Subject: Re: firmware encryption?
Date: 21 Dec 1999 12:48:52 EST
In article <83nbee$9e0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
>
>Hello All,
>
>I am designing a microcontroller-based system (an 8051) that will be
>deployed to a large number of customers. The controller contains on-
>chip flash memory, so I wanted to take advantage of it by releasing
>controller code (i.e. firmware) updates periodically as needed. The
>user would simply download the firmware into the box. The controller
>would then read the data and reprogram itself with the new code. BUT
>the code needs some security via encryption, so that one cannot simply
>disassemble it.
>
>So the system looks like it needs an encryption algorithm with the
>following traits:
>
>1. Can run ok on a 8-bit processor
>2. Uses little RAM (<256 bytes)
>3. Most importantly, can use a single key burned in the chip with no
>further key exchange.
>
>I have been looking at Blowfish with modest key sizes. Does this seem
>appropriate ... any other suggestions?
A general question to the experts in this newsgroup:
Would CipherSaber-2 be a good choice for this application?
------------------------------
From: Medical Electronics Lab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Keystrokes monitored/encryption useless
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 11:41:54 -0600
Liyang Hu wrote:
> Assuming the person cannot reach your machine physically. I'm talking
> about software security here, not things like surveillance or tempest
> attacks. Slight problem with your attack is that I'd notice it straight
> away, with my PC sitting in the middle of my bedroom...
> I had contenplated building a keyboard sniffer before, with a PIC16C84,
> saving the keystrokes to an external eeprom. (well, you're plugging that
> damn STAMP shite ;) I nearly got most of the design done, but luckily for
> our school's system admin, I never got around to making it, due to lack of
> time...
Sounds like a fun project. Instead of saving the data, you could
broadcast it. Digikey and Jameco sell some nice (small) transmitters
and receivers. This would be a good school project because you'd
get to learn a lot of stuff and you'd also scare the hell out of
any teacher with sense enough to check their own keyboard :-)
Patience, persistence, truth,
Dr. mike
------------------------------
From: Christoffer =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lern=F6?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Good way to one-way encrypt?
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 18:47:43 +0100
Hi,
What's the best way to one-way encrypt a sequence of bytes while keeping
as much of the info intact as possible?
I mean, let's say I'd do something trivial like:
byte[] b;
for (int i=0;i<inbytes.length;i++)
{
b=inbytes[i] ^ inbytes[inbytes.length-i-1];
}
return b;
In this case there are a lot of different inbytes which would yield the
same b. And I lose at least
half of the info in the bytes I put in.
Basically the problem I have is that I have an id sequence which is
important that I keep secret,
because it is partly used to generate a set of keys, but I also want to
use the id to tell a an
"authorized" server who has the keys to tell it who I am so it knows
what keys to use.
What's the best way of encrypting it?
/Christoffer
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kenneth Almquist)
Subject: Re: compression & encryption
Date: 21 Dec 1999 18:02:04 GMT
> I don't think that compression is the anwser to every thing.
> Like I state over and over correct compression just does not add
> information to a system. But if done correctly you are correct if
> an attacker has a an "exact copy" of the plaintext and the encrypted
> file he can just compress the file and then use it as he would have
> used the plain text in a a system with out compression and test
> all the keys. SO WHAT.
So in most applications an attacker can get sufficient information that
additional information provided by a compression algorithm will not make
an appreciable difference. The solution is to use an encryption algorithm
which can resist a known plaintext attack.
Kenneth Almquist
------------------------------
From: Paul Koning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How do you know if you found a key?
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 12:37:27 -0500
Greg wrote:
>
> If you take random data, and you encrypt it with DES, then
> you search for the key using any and all known attacks, how
> do you know when you found the right key?
You don't.
Then again, a better assumption is a known plaintext attack:
assume the attacker has both the ciphertext and the matching
plaintext (large amounts of both). Any useful cipher has to
be secure in that setting. Actually, these days the standards
are set even higher, but that's a good starting point...
paul
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (NFN NMI L.)
Subject: Re: Good way to one-way encrypt?
Date: 21 Dec 1999 18:14:23 GMT
Hashing?
S.T.L.
------------------------------
From: Medical Electronics Lab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: QPK
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 12:13:41 -0600
Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
> But I do like to know what is your definition of 'probabilistic
> encryption'. Do you mean a process where at some step a decision
> is made depending on the output of a (deterministic) pseudo-random
> generator or else on a truly random event which even the legitimate
> receiver of the encrypted message can't know/predict? The first
> case would only be an application of PRNG (I used it in one of my
> schemes), while in the second case the receiver has no easier job
> than the analyst, or do I miss something?
You encrypt with something that does not have a unique inverse.
If you know the key, there may be 4 or 8 "decryptions". By checking
all of them, you can figure out which is the correct one by some
other item in the data. The recipient does not know which one
is right a priori, they have to check them all.
In this case, you add 2 or 3 bits to the the analyst's task over
finding the key. For the receiver, checking 8 possible decryptions
is trivial.
And sorry, I forget where I read about it. I think it was a
CRYPTO or EUROCRYPT article in the early '90's.
Patience, persistence, truth,
Dr. mike
------------------------------
From: "Rowland Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Implementing ElGamal
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 01:33:08 -0500
Howdy,
Up front I have to say that
1) my math skills are, shall we say, less than optimal ;) and
2) I don't have much experience with cryptography.
I'm interested in implementing ElGamal in Java, and I'm using the algorithms
defined in Applied Cryptography, 2nd Edition.
I've tried working through a sample encryption/decryption problem using
small numbers, but I can't seem to get the encryption/decryption
calculations to work out correctly.
Is there something about precedence that I'm missing?
For example:
I'm reading
g^k mod p as ( g^k ) mod p
and
y^kM mod p as ( ( y^k ) M ) mod p
also
b/a^x mod p as ( b / ( a^x ) ) mod p
Is this the correct precedence for calculation?
Are there any good references on the web concerning the ElGamal algorithm?
------------------------------
From: bergmän@solväng.edu (Günter Bergmän)
Crossposted-To: news.admin.net-abuse.usenet,alt.cypherpunks,comp.security.pgp
Subject: Re: Come visit Forest Hills, NY...home of Dimitry Vulis.
Date: 21 Dec 1999 12:28:03 -0600
Reply-To: bergmän@solväng.edu (Günter Bergmän)
Ponty the singing WerePontiac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> professed:
--- > Vulis Terminator wrote:
--- > >
--- > > The NYC Here's-your-free-speech-buddy brigade visited the
--- > > community housing Dimitry Vulis, the Net's #1 predator.
--- > >
--- > > Check it out, the Dunkin Doughnuts three blocks from the Vulis is wired!
--- > >
--- > > # -rw-r--r-- 104767 Dec 21 02:20 Vulis_Dunkin_Doughnuts.jpg.uu
--- > > # From: Vulis Terminator <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- > > # Newsgroups: alt.binaries.pictures.monsters
--- > > # Subject: Forest Hills: Dunkin Doughnuts
--- > > # Date: 21 Dec 1999 07:30:19 GMT
--- > > # Organization: Nizkor deVulisification Project
--- > > # Message-ID: <83naab$j8v$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- > >
--- > > Here's the little building holding madman Dimitry Vulis:
--- > >
--- > > # -rw-r--r-- 1 root other 226469 Dec 21 01:39
Vulis_Building.jpg.uu
--- > > # From: Vulis Terminator <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- > > # Newsgroups: alt.binaries.pictures.monsters
--- > > # Subject: Forest Hills: 67-67 Burns Street building
--- > > # Date: 21 Dec 1999 07:37:40 GMT
--- > > # Organization: Nizkor deVulisification Project
--- > > # Message-ID: <83nao4$j8v$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- > >
--- > > There's an identical building attached to it on both sides.
--- > >
--- > > Here is the buzzer list for 67-67 Burns Street:
--- > >
--- > > # -rw-r--r-- 1 root other 108203 Dec 21 01:39
Vulis_Buzzer.jpg.uu
--- > > # From: Vulis Terminator <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- > > # Newsgroups: alt.binaries.pictures.monsters
--- > > # Subject: Forest Hills: Vulis building buzzer list
--- > > # Date: 21 Dec 1999 07:34:55 GMT
--- > > # Organization: Nizkor deVulisification Project
--- > > # Message-ID: <83naiv$j8v$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- > >
--- > > ___ _ _ __ ____ __ _ _ _
--- > > / _ \| | | | | \/ \ \ / / | | | |
--- > > | | | | |_| | | |\/| |\ V / | | | |
--- > > | |_| | _ | | | | | | | |_|_|_|
--- > > \___/|_| |_| |_| |_| |_| (_|_|_)
--- > >
--- > > Glimpse the first page of a 50 page double-side Alert given
--- > > out in front of Dimitry Vulis' building on Monday December 20th 1999:
--- > >
--- > > # -rw-r--r-- 1 root other 134940 Dec 21 01:38
Vulis_Alert.jpg.uu
--- > > # From: Vulis Terminator <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- > > # Newsgroups: alt.binaries.pictures.monsters
--- > > # Subject: Forest Hills: Neighboorhood Alert!
--- > > # Date: 21 Dec 1999 07:39:59 GMT
--- > > # Organization: Nizkor deVulisification Project
--- > > # Message-ID: <83nasf$j8v$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- > >
--- > > (Ugh, the extra "e" is for extra "evil" ;-)
--- > >
--- > > His neighboors are getting the word. A wider distribution will
--- > > occur in about another two weeks, near Vulis' birthday on 12/29.
--- > >
--- > > http://www.inet-one.com/cypherpunks/dir.1996.08.29-1996.09.04/msg00597.html
--- > >
--- > > # Subject: Re: Voting Monarchist?
--- > > # From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
--- > > # Date: Tue, 03 Sep 96 23:33:14 EDT
--- > > #
--- > > # Yes, I'm Jewish.
--- > >
--- > > Two buildings east, on the corner of Burns Street and Yellowstone Blvd,
--- > > is this building:
--- > >
--- > > # -rw-r--r-- 1 root other 143543 Dec 21 01:40
Young_Israel.jpg.uu
--- > > # From: Vulis Terminator <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- > > # Newsgroups: alt.binaries.pictures.monsters
--- > > # Subject: Forest Hills: Young Israel of Forest Hills
--- > > # Date: 21 Dec 1999 07:22:19 GMT
--- > > # Organization: Nizkor deVulisification Project
--- > > # Message-ID: <83n9rb$j8v$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- > >
--- > > They were quite surprised to hear there was a madman next door.
--- > > One of the victims listed in the handout identified himself,
--- > > and spoke with senior people there. More on this unfolding
--- > > story when it unfolds. ;-)
--- > >
--- > > ! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rabbi Shlomo Ruthenberg)
--- > > ! Newsgroups:
soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.baltics,talk.politics.mideast,
--- > > !
soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.romanian,sci.psychology
--- > > !
--- > > ! Subject: Soviet-Nazi anti-Semite in Nat.Inst.of Health paid for with
your tax $$$
--- > > ! Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 17:28:31 GMT
--- > > ! Organization: Young Israel of Forest Hills
--- > > !
--- > > ! As a religious Jew I am OUTRAGED that my tax money is used to pay for
Internet
--- > > ! access for the notorious Jew-hating Russian punk - one Mr. Dimitri
Pruss. This
--- > > ! Soviet-Nazi genocide apologist may have the right to post his "kill the
kikes"
--- > > ! messages from AmeriKKKa Online or Delphi, but not from a computer that
*I* and
--- > > ! other American taxpayers have paid for with our tax money. I ask every
Jew who
--- > > ! reads this to contact Dr. Steven Bailey by e-mail:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] or
--- > > ! [EMAIL PROTECTED], tel: (301) 496-4823, fax: (301) 402-2190, USPS:
National
--- > > ! Institutes of Health, Bldg. 12B, Rm. 2N-207, Bethesda, MD 20892, and
demand as
--- > > ! taxpayers that anti-Jewish propaganda like this NEVER AGAIN appears on
Usenet:
--- > >
--- > > They are now evaluating four nicely-bound copies of the Alert.
--- > >
--- > > They told us all the Young Israel organizations are connected.
--- > >
--- > > # Subject: The final solution for the premature ejaculation problem
--- > > # From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rabbi Shlomo Ruthenberg)
--- > > # Date: 1996/06/05
--- > > # Organization: Young Israel of Red Hook
--- > > # Newsgroups: soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,alt.religion.islam,
--- > > # alt.politics.white-Power,alt.2600,alt.revenge,alt.revisionism
--- > > #
--- > > #
--- > > # As a religious Jew, I am shocked that none of: Hamas / Hizballah /
--- > > # Party of God / Revolutionary Justice Organization / Organization
--- > > # for the Oppressed on Earth / Islamic Jihad for the Liberation of
--- > > # Palestine / Popular Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine
--- > > # / Ansar Allah / Palestine Liberation Front / Followers of the
--- > > # Prophet Muhammad / Revolutionary Organization of Socialist Muslims
--- > > # / Fatah Revolutionary Council / Arab Revolutionary Brigades /
--- > > # Islamic Resistance Movement / Vanguards of Conquest (whew!) have
--- > > # gotten around porking the Jewish Fascist Yoni Kamens or his zonah
--- > > # wife. You can help by mailing your donations (cash only) to:
--- > > #
--- > > # Dr. Ramadan Abdullah Mohamed Shallah (SS# 589-17-6824)
--- > > # Dr. Musa Abu-Marzuq (SS# 523-33-8386)
--- > > # c/o Arab Republic of Palestine Mission to the United Nations
--- > > # 115 E 65 St, New York, NY 10023, tel: (212) 288-8500
--- > > #
--- > > # Be sure to mark all envelopes "for the Yoni Kamens fund"!
--- > >
--- > > I think they're not going to appreciate the false claim of association.
--- > >
--- > > # Subject: Re: It's official - David Lawrence is running
--- > > # for the Kook of the Month
--- > > # From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jonathan Kamens)
--- > > # Date: 1996/05/21
--- > > # Message-Id: <4nrt6m$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- > > # Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jonathan Kamens)
--- > > # References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- > > # To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rabbi Shlomo Ruthenberg),
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- > > # Cc: jik
--- > > # Followup-To: news.admin.net-Abuse.misc
--- > > # Organization: jik's Linux box
--- > > # Newsgroups:
news.admin.net-Abuse.misc,alt.usenet.kooks,alt.censorship,
--- > > # news.admin.misc,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel
--- > > #
--- > > # [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rabbi Shlomo Ruthenberg) writes:
--- > > # |> [drivel from "Rabbi Shlomo Ruthenberg"]
--- > > #
--- > > # "Rabbi Ruthenberg", is of course nothing more than one of Dr. Dimitri
--- > > # Vulis' alter-egos (or, at least, if there really is a "Rabbi Shlomo
--- > > # Ruthenberg", he didn't write this message and has no idea that someone
--- > > # is forging messages in his name). This is, of course, patently obvious
--- > > # given that "Ruthenberg's" writing style is identical to Vulis' and
--- > > # Vulis has put words in "Ruthenberg's" mouth that no Young Israel rabbi
--- > > # would ever say. This will be made even more obvious if you do a search
--- > > # for "Shlomo & Ruthenberg" in the old news archive in DejaNews.
--- > > #
--- > > # Perhaps someone in New York should give Young Israel of Brighton Beach
--- > > # a call at (718) 648-0843
--- > > # ask to speak to Rabbi Ruthenberg, and ask him if he's aware of the
--- > > # postings being made to the Usenet in his name. Considering that the
--- > > # rabbi of a large synagogue in Brighton Beach is a rather public figure,
--- > > # and the views attributed to him by Dr. Vulis' forgeries (and by
--- > > # extension to his synagogue mentioned in the "Organization" line of the
--- > > # forgeries) are rather offensive to most people and therefore likely to
--- > > # damage Rabbi Ruthenberg's reputation and the reputation of his
--- > > # synagogue, Rabbi Ruthenberg may very well have legal recourse against
--- > > # Dr. Vulis and be interested in pursuing it.
--- > > #
--- > > # I have (a) removed bogus newsgroups from the distribution of this
--- > > # message, (b) cross-posted and directed followups to
--- > > # news.admin.net-abuse.misc, and (c) CC'd a copy of this message to the
--- > > # folks at PSInet, who will perhaps put a stop to these forgeries
--- > > # (although somehow I doubt it).
--- > >
--- > > Notified. Muhahahahahahahahahahaha<cough><cough>hahahaha!
--- > >
--- > > VT
--- > >
--- > > A WWW with all this will be up in a couple weeks.
--- >
--- > A little obsessive, aren't you?
Ever since he was fired by Salomon Brothers for posting
corporate email to usenet, Guy Polis has manifested his
maniacal tendencies by persecuting educated Jews such
as Dr. Vulis.
Now he is stalking too.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Scott Nelson)
Subject: Re: Good way to one-way encrypt?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 18:50:44 GMT
On Tue, 21 Dec 1999 Christoffer Lernö <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[edited]
>What's the best way to one-way encrypt a sequence of bytes while keeping
>as much of the info intact as possible?
>
"Best" depends on your metric.
Most secure? Most information preserved?
Fastest? Smallest? Easiest to code? etc.
Probably the "best" is to use an off the shelf secure hashing
function like SHA1 or MD5.
Scott Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
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