Cryptography-Digest Digest #216, Volume #11 Mon, 28 Feb 00 23:13:00 EST
Contents:
Re: Cryonics and cryptanalysis (Tim Tyler)
nonces - a definition (Anthony David)
Best language for encryption?? ("Vinchenzo")
Re: Cryonics and cryptanalysis (John Savard)
Question about password psychology and linguistics ("Seeker")
Re: Status of alleged *THIRD* key in MS Crypto API ? ("Douglas A. Gwyn")
Re: Q: 'Linear encipherment' ("Douglas A. Gwyn")
Re: On jamming interception networks ("Douglas A. Gwyn")
Re: Can someone break this cipher? ("Douglas A. Gwyn")
Re: code still unbroken ("Douglas A. Gwyn")
Re: Best language for encryption?? ("Douglas A. Gwyn")
Re: Question about password psychology and linguistics ("Douglas A. Gwyn")
Why aren't there any newsgroups on Steganography?? ("Amit IG")
Re: Best language for encryption?? (SCOTT19U.ZIP_GUY)
Source Code Available
Re: Why aren't there any newsgroups on Steganography?? (David A Molnar)
Re: How do I get the key from the passphrase in DES? (Bill Unruh)
Re: code still unbroken (lordcow77)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Tim Tyler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Cryonics and cryptanalysis
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 22:02:05 GMT
John Savard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: Jerry Coffin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
:>Therefore, the real trick to cryogenics accomplishing anything is to
:>give a motivation for people to bother un-freezing your body when a
:>cure is found for whatever disease you have.
: Actually, the motivation is quite obvious; people will be motivated to
: unfreeze the frozen so that, in their turn, they will be unfrozen
: themselves.
If you think this will work, here's a marketing scheme for you - used by
the ancient Egyptians, no less.
Send $5 to each address on the following list. Then delete the last name
on the list and add your name to the top, and forward the message to all
your friends (and even some strangers).
Make /sure/ you send the $5 to each person on the list - or the scheme
won't work. *Only* if you act for the benefit of others /now/ can you
hope to reap rewards in the future.
In no time at all you'll have the $$$s rolling in ;-)
[pre-emptive snip]
: This will also motivate people not to contribute to a population
: problem (or to tolerate one existing as the result of the activities
: of a minority of people uninterested in longer life spans).
Motiviating people not to contribute to the population problem is tricky,
due to the way folks are built. I doubt cryonics will help.
--
__________
|im |yler The Mandala Centre http://www.mandala.co.uk/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
AAAHHH... AAAHHH... AAAHHH... CHOOO!
------------------------------
Subject: nonces - a definition
From: Anthony David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 29 Feb 2000 09:35:07 +1100
Greetings
While explaining to management how our IPSec parameters are
setup, I came across the term "nonces".
After consulting the online Webster's 1913 and my Shorter Oxford
at home, the term is a Middle English word describing some thing
that exists for the moment or "for the once".
"Applied Cryptography" makes a number of references to the word
but I never found a definition it.
Is a nonce in cryptographic parlance simply a truly random
number generated for the purpose of (public) key exchange?
--
=========================================================
Gambling: A discretionary tax on | Anthony David
those who were asleep during high | Systems Administrator
school mathematics classes |
------------------------------
From: "Vinchenzo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Best language for encryption??
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:43:05 -0500
I would like to know what would be the best programming language to write an
encryption/decryption utility, I expect to use RSA or some public key
algorithms.
My second question is: what encryption algo does the Unix encryption
standard uses?
Thanks
Vinchenzo
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Savard)
Subject: Re: Cryonics and cryptanalysis
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:20:36 GMT
Tim Tyler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote, in part:
>If you think this will work, here's a marketing scheme for you - used by
>the ancient Egyptians, no less.
They invented the chain letter? Something I didn't know about history!
However, I don't think that this works the same way; it is a question
of responsible behavior, not foolish behavior. If cryonics is seen to
"work", it will ultimately be handled by the government in most
countries, even if not in the U.S., just like the rest of medical
care, or the telephones or the post office.
>Motiviating people not to contribute to the population problem is tricky,
>due to the way folks are built. I doubt cryonics will help.
I'm thinking that if it becomes popular, we might well have a
population control movement that becomes powerful enough to cause
countries to attack other countries that don't get with the program.
John Savard (jsavard<at>ecn<dot>ab<dot>ca)
http://www.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/crypto.htm
------------------------------
From: "Seeker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Question about password psychology and linguistics
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 00:08:10 GMT
Hello,
Would anyone know of any resources that describe what type of passwords
people generally use? I know pets names, etc are popular but what about the
general length of the average password, whether it is generally all lower
case and alpha, combined with digits, etc. Thanks.
------------------------------
From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Status of alleged *THIRD* key in MS Crypto API ?
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 00:35:46 GMT
Francois Grieu wrote:
> I found an article by Duncan Campbell, dated Sept 4, 1999 ...
> Is there any substance in this ?
So far as I can determine, there is no substance in anything
that Duncan Campbell says.
The cited article rehashes the old "NSAKEY" issue, repeating
misleading claims about it that were discredited previously.
No real information is given about the supposed third key.
Until enough information is supplied to independently
evaluate that claim, it should not be treated as valid.
------------------------------
From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Q: 'Linear encipherment'
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 00:46:53 GMT
Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
> 1. What is a 'linear encipherment'?
Kahn should have said, "vector".
> 2. ... When Kahn claimed that one is less secure than the
> other, wasn't he basing his argument on different amounts of
> key materials?
No, re-read his entire discussion. He pointed out that there
is a different amount of what we now call "diffusion" of the
plaintext through the ciphertext.
------------------------------
From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: On jamming interception networks
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 00:56:39 GMT
Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
> Now, how do I know whether I am or I am not on their watch list?
That is irrelevant; hopefully you don't have access to that
information. My point is that the vast majority of people are
*not* targets of surveillance, and in particular communication
strictly between US citizens is not targeted by US intelligence
agencies except under certain limited, controlled conditions
(such as when there is probable cause that the persons are
involved in espionage or terrorism).
> What are the precise criteria for a person to have the honour
> of being on that list?
There are precise criteria, but for security reasons nobody
is going to tell you what they are. You can get a feel for
them from Hayden's speech to the Kennedy Political Union.
------------------------------
From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Can someone break this cipher?
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 01:07:21 GMT
Adam Durana wrote:
> So if you are serrious about testing
> the the security of your cipher you'll have to make it public.
The official party line on this is: If a cryptosystem becomes
crackable without knowing the key once its "general system" is
known, it is unsafe to field the system, because there are too
many ways in which the general system (or an equivalent) might
be discovered, be it deduction, lucky guessing, or copying of
an operator's manual. (All of these have occurred many times
in the course of history.) Since there are cryptosystems
already available with security that can withstand disclosure
of the general system, there is no real competition from a
new cryptosystem that lacks this property. In order to
demonstrate this property, one discloses the general system to
the cryptanalysts who one uses to probe it for weaknesses
before fielding the system; since those cryppies are working
on the same side, they should be provided as much assistance
as possible short of giving them the key. Otherwise you make
them work too hard on inessential aspects of the problem,
which reduces the likelihood that they will find the real
weaknesses.
------------------------------
From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: code still unbroken
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 01:11:45 GMT
> > That little thing? cracked it in six hours. Now I am waiting for the
> > prize to increase to my chosen target point. Talk to you later!!!
Stephen Houchen wrote:
> So... what's your chosen target point? ;)
There is an interesting area of game theory here. Suppose that N
people have all cracked the cipher and are waiting for the prize
to increase, to maximize their expected payoff. Obviously, the
first to submit his claim takes the prize, but if he does it too
soon he doesn't get as much as if he waited until just before the
second person submits his claim. What is the optimal waiting
time before filing one's claim? (A simple-minded solution says
that it is infinite.)
------------------------------
From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Best language for encryption??
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 01:14:55 GMT
Vinchenzo wrote:
> I would like to know what would be the best programming language
> to write an encryption/decryption utility, I expect to use RSA
> or some public key algorithms.
There is no such thing as a "best" programming language for such
purposes. Use whichever one you are comfortable with.
> My second question is: what encryption algo does the Unix
> encryption standard uses?
There is no "Unix encryption standard". Traditional UNIX came
with two distinct encryptors, one for passwords (salted DES)
and one a stand-alone file encryptor (trivialized Enigma).
------------------------------
From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Question about password psychology and linguistics
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 01:19:12 GMT
Seeker wrote:
> Would anyone know of any resources that describe what type of
> passwords people generally use? I know pets names, etc ...
What is used depends on what the password system forces one to use.
These days, many password systems require the passwords to contain
mixtures of alpha and non-alpha, etc.
Left to their own devices, people naturally choose a password that
is easy for them to remember, such as "Peanuts".
Check the hacker boards/web sites for information on password
hacking. (Disable ActiveX and JavaScript in your browser first!)
------------------------------
From: "Amit IG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Why aren't there any newsgroups on Steganography??
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 07:20:56 +0530
Why aren't there any newsgroups on Steganography? At least it doesn't show
up on my list. Please let me know if there is one. Steganography provides a
new dimension to encryption and it is a field unto itself
Amit
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (SCOTT19U.ZIP_GUY)
Subject: Re: Best language for encryption??
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 03:15:15 GMT
In article <uSCu4.1256$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Vinchenzo"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I would like to know what would be the best programming language to write an
>encryption/decryption utility, I expect to use RSA or some public key
>algorithms.
If you have a good assembler that is the best to write in. However
if you go with a high level language C is a good bet.
>
>My second question is: what encryption algo does the Unix encryption
>standard uses?
>
>Thanks
>
>Vinchenzo
>
>
David A. Scott
--
SCOTT19U.ZIP NOW AVAILABLE WORLD WIDE
http://www.jim.com/jamesd/Kong/scott19u.zip
Scott famous encryption website NOT FOR WIMPS
http://members.xoom.com/ecil/index.htm
Scott rejected paper for the ACM
http://members.xoom.com/ecil/dspaper.htm
Scott famous Compression Page WIMPS allowed
http://members.xoom.com/ecil/compress.htm
**NOTE EMAIL address is for SPAMERS***
I leave you with this final thought from President Bill Clinton:
"The road to tyranny, we must never forget, begins with the destruction of the
truth."
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Source Code Available
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 21:32:45 -0500
SOURCE CODE AVAILABLE
Does anyone remember Fauzan Mirza's TinyIdea program, a DOS based
encryption program using the IDEA cipher and coded in less than 512 bytes?
I was so impressed that I have coded several other encryption programs in that
TINY format. Of course, to achieve this program size, the source code must be in
assembly language. My code can be assembled on Eric Isaacson's A386 assembler,
and two of the programs (TINYRIJN and TINYSAFR) use only 16-bit instructions,
making it possible to assemble them on the shareware A86 assembler (available
from www.eji.com). And now with the new EAR regulations, (and after the
required notice to [EMAIL PROTECTED]) I have posted the source code for these
programs. There are three mirror sites for these:
www.afn.org/~afn21533/
members.tripod.com/~afn21533/
members.xoom.com/afn21533/ (Note lack of tilde here)
All these programs use CFB block chaining and run from the DOS
command line. Encryption is done 'in place', so the original file is
overwritten by the encrypted one. (Great for file wiping, too). Direction
(encrypt/decrypt) is handled like TinyIdea (+ or - on the command line).
The first program, DOSFISH (dosfish.zip), is Bruce Schneier's
BLOWFISH in the above form. While the executable is only 425 bytes, it
requires the hex digits of PI as initialization. This can be loaded from an
auxiliary file which is 4168 bytes long. The cipher section of this program
has been successfully tested with the BLOWFISH test vectors.
Bruce had stated in a post to this NG at one time that there was
nothing 'magic' about PI as an initialization, and the use of a file so
long for initialization seemed a little silly to me, so I created GOLDFISH
which substituted the 'golden ratio' initialization used by Ron Rivest in
RC5 and RC6 for the long external file while continuing to use the rest of the
BLOWFISH algorithm. This reduced the executable to only 373 bytes. Look for it
as goldfish.zip.
I found several of the AES candidates suitable for this treatment.
Of the four that I coded, (RC6, SAFER+. SERPENT and RIJNDAEL) three have made
it to the second round. The files are tinyrc.zip, tinysafr.zip, tinyserp.zip
and tinyrijn.zip on the above sites.
While TINYRC and TINYSAFR are true examples of the parent cipher, a
short note about the implementation of TINYSERP is in order. From the
description in Ross Anderson's submission document, it appears that the IP
and FP routines are for the purpose of matching the 4-bit S-boxes to the
cipher space, and Ross says that these routines add no cryptographic strength
to the system. In order to save space, I omitted these routines and devised
a way to run the substitution on the proper bits using the XOR function
instead of substitution. This required that the initial S-box values be XORed
with their index into the S-box. In order to fit the S-box into the 512-
byte limit, it was also compressed as data, and expanded by the program.
TINYRIJN has received the most attention, and I would like to thank
Vincent Rijmen for his invaluable assistance as I worked with this program.
It incorporates the true RIJNDAEL cipher, in 128, 192, and 256-bit form,
along with a Davies-Meyer key hash which allows matching the entropy of the
user input more properly to that inherent in the cipher keyspace. (But this
does require that the key size and block size be the same, not a requirement
of RIJNDAEL). In addition, the IV is derived from the filename, ensuring a
different encryption for different files starting with the same sequence.
I/O is redirectable, making it possible to run from .BAT files, but error
messages are always displayed on the screen. The S-box values are generated
based on the formulas found in Dr. Brian Gladman's C implementation and match
the original RIJNDAEL S-box values. The 128-bit executable of this program
runs 485 bytes, while in 256-bit form it is 507 bytes.
================
My home page URL=http://members.xoom.com/afn21533/ Robert G. Durnal
Hosting HIDE4PGP, HIDESEEK v5.0, TinyIdea, BLOWFISH, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
and tiny DOS versions of RC6, RIJNDAEL, SAFER+, and [EMAIL PROTECTED]
SERPENT. EAR may apply, so look for instructions.
------------------------------
From: David A Molnar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why aren't there any newsgroups on Steganography??
Date: 29 Feb 2000 02:54:42 GMT
There is a mailing list devoted to steganography run by Markus Kuhn.
http://www.jjtc.com/Steganography/steglist.htm
maybe there are other fora as well.
Amit IG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Why aren't there any newsgroups on Steganography? At least it doesn't show
> up on my list. Please let me know if there is one. Steganography provides a
> new dimension to encryption and it is a field unto itself
> Amit
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bill Unruh)
Subject: Re: How do I get the key from the passphrase in DES?
Date: 29 Feb 2000 03:27:14 GMT
In <89dn5u$qqk$[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "Amit IG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>I want to know the technique used for deriving the 64-bit key from an
>arbitrary length passphrase. The key is then used in DES.
??? What key? What passphrase?
DES accepts a key of 8 7bit characters. HOw you get those from your
passphrase is up to your. Unix crypt just throws away anything beyond 8
characters. Or you could MD5 the passphrase, xor the first half with the
second, AND each character of the result with 0x7f, and feed it to des.
Or whatever you wish.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: code still unbroken
From: lordcow77 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 20:03:29 -0800
There's a similar game theory problem that I love. There is a
free lottery where each person can submit as many entries as
they choose. At the end of a specified duration, one entry is
chosen at random and the prize is given to them, with the catch
that the prize is divided by the total number of entries
received. What is the optimal strategy for one person acting
individually, with no collusion between parties, to maximize the
total payout at the end of the lottery?
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
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