Cryptography-Digest Digest #329, Volume #11 Tue, 14 Mar 00 12:13:01 EST
Contents:
Can anyone help me decypher this message? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Universal Language (Richard Herring)
Re: Universal Language (Richard Herring)
Re: [Tabloid Humor] Greatest threat ever to computer security (John Savard)
Re: linux's /dev/random (Gerhard Wesp)
Re: [Tabloid Humor] Greatest threat ever to computer security (Gerhard Wesp)
Re: linux's /dev/random (Eric Lee Green)
Re: Just *Germain* primes (Bob Silverman)
Re: How does % operator deal with negative numbers? (Bob Silverman)
how to introduce hs students to cryptography ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Random permutations (Tim Tyler)
Re: Just *Germain* primes ("Mikael Johansson")
Re: how to introduce hs students to cryptography (Bob Silverman)
Re: Just *Germain* primes (James Felling)
Re: how to introduce hs students to cryptography (Anton Stiglic)
Re: how to introduce hs students to cryptography (David A Molnar)
Re: linux's /dev/random (Anton Stiglic)
Re: Lame Question - Please help me out! (Anton Stiglic)
Re: sci.crypt.applied (Anton Stiglic)
Re: des des3 for hp-ux c++ (Anton Stiglic)
Re: Random permutations (Bo D�mstedt)
Re: Just *Germain* primes (Paul Koning)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Can anyone help me decypher this message?
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:55:30 GMT
Is there anyone out there who enjoys decyphering encoded text? Or can
anyone recommend someone? It would have to be someone with experience
of this kind of thing and who lives in the UK.
Count Butler
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard Herring)
Subject: Re: Universal Language
Date: 14 Mar 2000 14:03:06 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Mok-Kong Shen ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
> Chinese is in my opinion not suitable for being a universal langauge,
> because, among maybe others reasons, its ideographs are clumsy for
> data processing. India has a large number of different languages.
> People there, whose native languages are different, all speak English
> in order to be able to communicate with one another.
"All"? Most of them know more than one language, and English is
one of the official languages, but it doesn't follow that they all
speak English. It's just as likely they'd choose Hindi/Urdu.
> People mostly
> accept given facts. (This is similar to the fact that dollar is
> defacto the standard currency of the world.)
Equally false, you mean?
--
Richard Herring | <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard Herring)
Subject: Re: Universal Language
Date: 14 Mar 2000 14:04:28 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <8abjcc$1tt8$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, SCOTT19U.ZIP_GUY ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
> well China has lots of spies over here so it seems they could learn a
> form of English easily. India the educated already speak English so whats the
> problem
You'd need subtitles.
--
Richard Herring | <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Savard)
Crossposted-To: alt.computer.security
Subject: Re: [Tabloid Humor] Greatest threat ever to computer security
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 07:46:51 GMT
"William L. Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote, in part:
>This atricle is hopefully humor. If it isn't, the Reverend Peasboro
>suffers from "in capus rectum" (head inserted in backside for those
>unfamiliar with US idiom), or the reporter suffers from temporary
>"lackofmoney". The possibilities are not mutually exclusive.
Well, the "Weekly World News" is a tabloid known for rather far
fetched stories, like the infamous "Statue of Elvis Found on Mars"
story.
John Savard (jsavard<at>ecn<dot>ab<dot>ca)
http://www.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/crypto.htm
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gerhard Wesp)
Subject: Re: linux's /dev/random
Date: 14 Mar 2000 14:54:23 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <8ajv1t$la9$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, antirez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>(and trust this as _a lot_ of entropy! 40 bit for every
> key pressure or release)
do you have access to any documentation which claims this? btw, i'd
be interested in a precise documentation of /dev/random anyway. in
particular, which algorithms with which parameters are used, how does
entropy estimation work, etc. didn't find anything on the web, and the
man page is a bit tacit on these things
greetings,
-gerhard
--
| ___ Gerhard Wesp
| \_________|_________/ http://www.cosy.sbg.ac.at/~gwesp
| O Ban Dihydrogen Monoxide, the most dangerous
| chemical known to mankind! --- http://www.dhmo.org
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gerhard Wesp)
Crossposted-To: alt.computer.security
Subject: Re: [Tabloid Humor] Greatest threat ever to computer security
Date: 14 Mar 2000 15:15:13 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
William L. Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>suffers from "in capus rectum" (head inserted in backside for those
>unfamiliar with US idiom), or the reporter suffers from temporary
i'm not familiar with us idiom, but above seems latin and probably
means ``in rectum caput'', which is the literal translation of head in
backside.
apart from that, my computer _is_ possessed by demons---lots of them!
and they've got really evil-sounding names, like klogd, sshd, crond,
inetd, lpd,... clearly some 2800 year-old mesopotamian dialect! the
only fix for a demon-free system i'm aware of is described in the
following link, which i'd recommend for further reading:
http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Node/4081/jesux.html
greetings,
-gerhard
--
| ___ Gerhard Wesp
| \_________|_________/ http://www.cosy.sbg.ac.at/~gwesp
| O Ban Dihydrogen Monoxide, the most dangerous
| chemical known to mankind! --- http://www.dhmo.org
------------------------------
From: Eric Lee Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: linux's /dev/random
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 15:17:06 GMT
Gerhard Wesp wrote:
>
> In article <8ajv1t$la9$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, antirez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >(and trust this as _a lot_ of entropy! 40 bit for every
> > key pressure or release)
>
> do you have access to any documentation which claims this? btw, i'd
> be interested in a precise documentation of /dev/random anyway. in
> particular, which algorithms with which parameters are used, how does
> entropy estimation work, etc. didn't find anything on the web, and the
> man page is a bit tacit on these things
There is very good information at the top of the the random.c file in the
Linux kernel. Just grab the Linux kernel sources from ftp.at.kernel.org
(substitute your country code for the 'at'), and look in
linux/drivers/char/random.c for the full skinny on the implementation.
--
Eric Lee Green http://members.tripod.com/e_l_green
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] The Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs
------------------------------
From: Bob Silverman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Just *Germain* primes
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 15:23:59 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Paul Koning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > > >enough) a little mistake in the documentation; the numbers
turned up
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > John Savard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >in the Sophie Germain mode are the ones usable as actual moduli.
> >
> > May I say something almost entirely off-topic and annoying? Thank
you.
> > ...
> > What, then, is different about Sophie Germain that we'd single her
out in
> > this unusual way? I'm afraid the answer is obvious, ...
>
> I always wonder why people (in recent times) insist on
> immediately attributing things like this to sinister
> motives.
<snip>
It is even worse than this. The knee-jerk "attribute to discrimination"
reaction arises from gross stupidity and ignorance.
I heard a story recently of a woman who went on a crusade against
a reporter because he used the word "niggardly" in an article. It
would be comical if it were not so pathetic....
To put the record straight. "Sophie Germain primes" are so named
because she was the first to initiate a serious study of primes p
such that 2p+1 is also prime. It arose in the context of trying to
prove FLT. She was able to prove that if p and 2p+1 are both prime,
then x^p + y^p = z^p has no non-trivial solutions in positive integers.
--
Bob Silverman
"You can lead a horse's ass to knowledge, but you can't make him think"
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Bob Silverman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.javascript
Subject: Re: How does % operator deal with negative numbers?
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 15:29:12 GMT
In article <8ak2l9$1fp$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bill Unruh) wrote:
> In <8aj364$us6$[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Bob Silverman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> >if (s = (a % b) < 0) s = b + s;
>
> or,
> s= ((a%b)+b)%b
> works for all a ( assuming you do not have a broken implimentation of
%)
Yep, but it is unecessarily SLOW. remainder operations are
expensive; your suggestion requires doing two of them...
>
--
Bob Silverman
"You can lead a horse's ass to knowledge, but you can't make him think"
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: how to introduce hs students to cryptography
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 15:26:14 GMT
I want to design one or two lessons for 12th grade students majoring in
computer science, that will introduce them to the basic concepts,
problems, and ideas of cryptography. The activity can include anything
from a computer lab session to group activity or perhaps even a
cryptosystem competition of some sort.
If you have any creative, engaging, interesting ideas please share them
with me. Where would you start? what do you think is most important?
what should my goals be?
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Tim Tyler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Random permutations
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 15:25:19 GMT
Joseph Ashwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: Having considered it in more detail, I generally agree with
: you, I think that eliminating the strings of repeats serves
: to eliminate a relatively large bias (due to the repeats
: crowding out "good" random numbers), and replace it with a
: very much smaller one.
It seems to me that this "very much smaller" bias is actually of zero
magnitude.
I wrote: ``discarding multiple index entries produces statistically
"perfect" results in the resulting permutation - assuming "perfect"
random numbers are supplied, of course.'' - which still seems correct.
The lack of any repeated values in the random numbers uses as indexes does
not show up as a bias in the resulting permutations in any way at all.
--
__________
|im |yler The Mandala Centre http://www.mandala.co.uk/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Microsoft Tagline Genera% #)54-543feoi 054pkt-&()%$75 (^* patches #5 of
------------------------------
From: "Mikael Johansson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Just *Germain* primes
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:44:01 +0100
My GOD! I cannot believe this debate is *actually* taking place!
Why on earth would it be considered *sexist* to keep to a traditional naming
of mathematical entities, in order to avoid misunderstandings? The name
Sophie Germain primes was taken into use *ages* ago, long before sexism
became even close to an issue! And now some maniac raves along and accuses
all of the mathematical community of sexism because we refer to this class
of primes by their traditional name!!
What's next? Raving about the 'Witch of Agnesi' accusing Agnesi of
witchcraft, thus being intolerant against rivalling religions?
Come off of this! It's NOT relevant! Personally, I even find it beautiful to
thus honor Sophie Germains accomplishments --- remember, that even though as
good as everything around her counteracted her, her parents literally
harassing her for taking on to mathematics, the world only accepting her
under pseudonym etc, etc, she still did the largest breakthrough on FLT
before Kummer, and beat several contemporaries by quite some!
Why on earth should a honor be considered sexist? I just cannot understand
that attitude!
// Mikael Johansson
------------------------------
From: Bob Silverman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: how to introduce hs students to cryptography
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 15:38:37 GMT
In article <8allmf$rfo$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I want to design one or two lessons for 12th grade students majoring
in
> computer science, that will introduce them to the basic concepts,
> problems, and ideas of cryptography. The activity can include anything
> from a computer lab session to group activity or perhaps even a
> cryptosystem competition of some sort.
> If you have any creative, engaging, interesting ideas please share
them
> with me. Where would you start? what do you think is most important?
This is (or should be) clear. Start by teaching them a few weeks
worth of elementary number theory, followed by a few weeks of
discrete math and probability (e.g. Knuth, Graham, Ptashnik).
They can't possibly learn the crypto without a minimal intro to the
math behind it. Public-key methods would be hopeless to teach without
it.
Bob Silverman
"You can lead a horse's ass to knowledge, but you can't make him think"
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: James Felling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Just *Germain* primes
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:05:13 -0600
John Savard wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:17:11 GMT, "Douglas A. Gwyn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote, in part:
>
> >There are no other "Germain"s with which she could be confused.
>
> I admit that one might wonder about the mathematical practice, but, as
> can be seen from my posts, I feel strongly about political
> correctness. However, I shall now try to add some light, rather than
> heat, to this thread.
>
> It might be noted, though, that if one were to refer to "Germain
> primes", and someone were to pick up a mathematics book, and look in
> the index for the mathematician responsible for them, a naive person,
> who had not heard of Sophie Germain, might nevertheless look in the
> index under S.
>
> Because, among French-speaking people, although the surname Germain is
> fairly uncommon, the surname St. Germain or Saint-Germain is
> considerably more common. And it must also be considered as a source
> of confusion ... a source that would do its work even if there were no
> famous mathematicians named St. Germain after whom a type of prime
> might be named.
I know that there was a famous mathematician with the surname St. Germain(
I am not sure whether it is properly St. or Saint-). It may well be that
the numbers became Sophie Germain primes for a number of reasons
1) To avoid confusion with St. Germain
2) To avoid homophonic associations (germane vs. germain)
and
3) perpetuation of an established use -- once a fair portion of
mathematicians call something X, it will be very dificult to change it.
>
>
> John Savard (teneerf <-)
> http://www.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html
------------------------------
From: Anton Stiglic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: how to introduce hs students to cryptography
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:27:26 -0500
You could start by teaching them some basic group/number theory,
and explain to them what we beleive are hard problems (factoring,
discrete log). RSA is relatively easy to explain after a 1 hour cours in
number/group theory.
You could then explain what are hash functions,
and show how they are used in digital signatures (RSA signatures
for example). Talk about public key crypto, certificates, etc...
The above could be covered in 3 hours (minimum I guess?)
After that, you could explain some symmetric encryption, like
DES (DES is just about the easiest to understand, and there is
an article (forgot the title and author, but could find it if you
are realy interested) that has a simplyfied version of DES, with
exercices for trying out encryption and decryption).
You could also show other aspects of crypto, which most people
don't know about. Like zero-knowledge proofs, multiparty computations
(with a deck of cards for example), quantum cryptography, etc...
There is some good articles that explain these concepts with easily
understood tools.
Anton
------------------------------
From: David A Molnar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: how to introduce hs students to cryptography
Date: 14 Mar 2000 16:03:36 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> cryptosystem competition of some sort.
> If you have any creative, engaging, interesting ideas please share them
> with me. Where would you start? what do you think is most important?
> what should my goals be?
Well, you may want to cover RSA, or at least public-key
cryptography.
I started learning cryptography by implementing RSA in Scheme. This was an
excellent beginning, because
* Scheme has bignum support built in, so I could work with
"real" key lengths. Plus it meant I could bypass the tedious
(but useful) work of implementing a bignum library myself.
* I had to learn the binary square and multiply method for
modular exponentiation and then implement it (with help),
after seeing for myself why we do not naively exponentiate
and then reduce modulo m.
* Once I had a power-mod function, I had to write a simple
primality tester. Nothing fancy, just a Fermat test with
base 2. After that, a probabilistic prime generator is easy,
since Scheme has a PRNG.
* It's not a very good PRNG, though. so I built a Blum-Blum
Shub generator. This is straightforward, though not exactly
easy, given the description in Applied Cryptography.
The nice thing about this is that now I could play with the
generator and different seeds. For instance, I could plug
in a modulus which wasn't of the right form and then notice
that the generator alternates 0s and 1s in the least
significant bit. Then I could see what the cycle lengths were for
various seeds.
* After that, it's on to RSA. The hardest part was computing
the inverse modulo n using the extended euclidean method.
Thankfully several sci.crypt posters helped out (thanks again),
and I finally managed to do it. If you are doing this for a
class, you might want to just give this part as an already
written function and be done with it.
* Now I could encrypt and decrypt single characters. I could
notice that it is not a good idea to encrypt and decrypt a message
character by character. What's more, I could see that a padding
scheme would be a good idea.
If you only have one or two lessons as lectures, you might want to just
put together some code in Scheme or some other interactive language, and
then demonstrate how it works. You can show why RSA alone isn't good
enough for crypto, and how you really need padding schemes. That kind of
thing.
-David
------------------------------
From: Anton Stiglic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: linux's /dev/random
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:33:46 -0500
==============D6D35D03DAF53BCBF71C7FD5
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Doesn't /dev/random depend on time delays betwwen key strokes and other
stuff as well?
Anton
antirez wrote:
> I played a bit with /dev/random. It seems to overstimate
> the entropy. For example under Linux/i386 if you press
> a key and didn't relase it, the PC write "aaaaaaaaaaaaaa" with
> a constant period, but /dev/random trust this as good entropy
> (and trust this as _a lot_ of entropy! 40 bit for every
> key pressure or release)
> This seems really not so conservative.
> Comments?
>
> p.s.
> (this is an example of good target for sci.crypt.applied)
>
> --
> antirez
> email: antirez@linuxcare dot com
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
--
___________________________________________
Anton Stiglic
Jr. developer & specialist in cryptology.
Zero-Knowledge Systems Inc.
___________________________________________
==============D6D35D03DAF53BCBF71C7FD5
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Doesn't /dev/random depend on time delays betwwen key strokes and other
<br>stuff as well?
<p>Anton
<p>antirez wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>I played a bit with /dev/random. It seems to overstimate
<br>the entropy. For example under Linux/i386 if you press
<br>a key and didn't relase it, the PC write "aaaaaaaaaaaaaa" with
<br>a constant period, but /dev/random trust this as good entropy
<br>(and trust this as _a lot_ of entropy! 40 bit for every
<br> key pressure or release)
<br>This seems really not so conservative.
<br>Comments?
<p>p.s.
<br>(this is an example of good target for sci.crypt.applied)
<p>--
<br>antirez
<br>email: antirez@linuxcare dot com
<p>Sent via Deja.com <a href="http://www.deja.com/">http://www.deja.com/</a>
<br>Before you buy.</blockquote>
<pre>--
___________________________________________
Anton Stiglic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Jr. developer & specialist in cryptology.
Zero-Knowledge Systems Inc.
___________________________________________</pre>
</html>
==============D6D35D03DAF53BCBF71C7FD5==
------------------------------
From: Anton Stiglic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Lame Question - Please help me out!
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:35:25 -0500
Download Open-SSL (www.openssl.org),
it has a probabilistic primality test function.
Anton
Kahless42 wrote:
> Does anyone have source code or an algorithm to prove primality or really
> strong pseudoprimality for use in an RSA-type program?
>
> Thanks!
> Gordon
------------------------------
From: Anton Stiglic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: sci.crypt.applied
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:38:42 -0500
Gary Watson wrote:
> I haven't seen a great deal of discussion of applied cryptography in this
> ng, that is, the nuts-n-bolts techniques used to implement a cipher in such
> a way that the final product is secure. I'm not proposing a new
> sci.crypt.applied newsgroup, but if it existed, perhaps the charter would
> propose discussions of:
There isn't much talk about theoretical crypto either. Like most news-groups,
sci.crypt has allot of noise. But if you keep on looking, from time to time
you'll
bumb into some good discussions. There are a couple of good crypto guys
that read this (and most of them are into applied crypto).
Anton
------------------------------
From: Anton Stiglic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: des des3 for hp-ux c++
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:43:48 -0500
Tom St Denis wrote:
> Michael Burrows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Hi
> > Please could you let me know where I could get des or des3 for hp-ux c++
> >
> > Thanks
> > Mike
> >
>
> Um, no. DES sucks. Why use it?
> Tom
DES doesn't suck, it just has a short key space. In fact, DES is probably
the
nicest looking symmetric scheme that exists.
Open-SSL has plenty of implentations (www.openssl.org). Don't know if
it will fit your particular needs do.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bo D�mstedt)
Subject: Re: Random permutations
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:53:29 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Herman Rubin) wrote:
>Now the question which raised the fuss is how to do the
>generating of the random integer between 0 and m-1. The
>information in this is log_2(m). If one generates all
>of them together, one can come close to this in the
>number of bits used, but it can lead to numerical problems.
>The usual procedure is to generate them one at a time.
In the SG100 hardware random number generator, we
generate numbers like these using the algorithm below.
We see that, to guarantee a flat distribution, we must
sometimes iterate. Note that, in the algorithm below,
(multiples of) four bytes generates one number with a
flat distribution 0..(m-1) for any 0<m<(2^32).
Bo D�mstedt
Protego Information AB
IDEON,Lund,Sweden
http://www.protego.se/sg100_en.htm
(Full source available on our site)
ulong SG100_Random( const ulong Select_Range)
{
BOOL Done = FALSE;
ulong inc_scale;
ulong count = ( ulong)( -1);
ulong Rand_word;
if ( Select_Range == 0)
{
// ERROR in input
}
else
{
inc_scale = 0xFFFFFFFF / Select_Range;
if ( inc_scale == 0)
{
inc_scale = 1;
}
while ( ! Done)
{
Get_Noise( &Rand_word, one word of true noise);
count = Rand_word / inc_scale;
Done = count < Select_Range;
}
}
return count;
}
------------------------------
From: Paul Koning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Just *Germain* primes
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:49:42 -0500
Mikael Johansson wrote:
>
> My GOD! I cannot believe this debate is *actually* taking place!
That's because you live in Sweden rather than in the USA, the
capital of the PC movement.
:-(
paul
------------------------------
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