Cryptography-Digest Digest #20, Volume #13 Fri, 27 Oct 00 21:13:00 EDT
Contents:
Re: very large mult. div. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: who first will break claim that DVD pattern of imprints can't be tampered with,
erased or falsified ? (Andrew Carol)
Re: Enigma: Stolen German Code Machine Turns Up in BBC Mailroom ("Nick Field")
Re: frequency analysis ("Nick Field")
Re: Perfect Compression Possible? (Simon Johnson)
Re: frequency analysis (JPeschel)
Re: very large mult. div. (Tom St Denis)
Re: Q: Computations in a Galois Field (Tom St Denis)
Re: Q: Computations in a Galois Field ("Brian McKeever")
Re: End to end encryption in GSM (Marcus AAkesson)
Re: working with huge numbers ("slak-")
Applied Cryptography software. ("slak-")
Re: Software with embedded keys (Bill W)
Re: End to end encryption in GSM (Marc)
Re: End to end encryption in GSM (Marc)
Re: the missed number of messages is more then 130 !!! (jungle)
Re: Is OPT the only encryption system that can be proved secure? (Bryan Olson)
Re: Collision domain in crypt()? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Collision domain in crypt()? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: very large mult. div.
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 23:03:40 GMT
In article <8td0ei$ff5$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Tom St Denis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This is true (I have the series myself) but perhaps the OP was a
lonely
> 16 year old without a lot of money (kinda like me when I first started
> here...)
And now thanx to us you are a still lonely, 16 year old with even less
money. But at least you have more knowledge now.
Joe
(who also recommends a copy of TAOCP)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Andrew Carol <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: who first will break claim that DVD pattern of imprints can't be tampered
with, erased or falsified ?
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:06:07 -0700
In article <eNmK5.1307$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, slak-
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> it's also possible to replicate the the barrel of a gun with access only to
> the bullet fired.
Since the surface area of the barrel is much larger than that of the
bullet the bullet imprint probably forms a compression function of the
barrel shape.
This means there are many more barrel shapes than bullet patterns.
This further implies that MANY barrels could be analytically
constructed which yield the same bullet pattern.
So while one barrel could yield only one bullet pattern, each bullet
pattern could come from many barrels. Of course the set of all
possible barrels is so large that there are probably no two in the
world which could imprint the bullet the same way.
That said, I wonder how accuratly you could reconstruct a SPECIFIC
barrel based on a single bullet.
--- Andy
------------------------------
From: "Nick Field" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Enigma: Stolen German Code Machine Turns Up in BBC Mailroom
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 00:13:27 +0100
Hi All,
I suspect that this thread is getting totally off-topic
however......Most of the stuff about tesla on the net is bullshit. He may
have produced fireballs (whether or not they were ball lightning we will
never know). For detailed discussion of his work as well as the lab notes
(Colorado Springs Notes 1899-1900, Nolit, Beograd) get hold of a copy of
Richard Hull's book - Tesla Coil Builders Guide to the Colorado Springs
Notes of Nikola Tesla (sorry I can't remember the publisher.
Have Fun
Nick Field
Andre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8t6bqb$v09$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "Douglas A. Gwyn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Sundial Services wrote:
> > > The "theory" that Nikolai Telsa had a secret for unlimited energy,
> > > and that these secrets were locked-away in a particular
> > > (secretly-different!) Enigma machine is one of those things that
> > > "cannot be disproved, just as it cannot [practically] be proved,"
> >
> > Actually it can be disproved, to the extent that there are not
> > very many bits available in the settings of the machine
> > parameters (e.g. rotor wiring). It could be proved in other
> > ways too, such as in examining Tesla's lab notes (I have a copy).
>
> Cool :-) Anything about ball lightning production in there .. ??? if
> so please send me a copy of the relevant section .
> I *know* that this was one of the ideas that worked ...
>
> (all the notes I can find on the Net aren't detailed enough or are
> missing sections) .
>
> >
> > Tesla was quite interested in the geoelectric properties of the
> > Earth, especially in allowing power to be broadcast through
> > standing waves to distant locations, and he performed experiments
> > along these lines (with some success). But he also became wackier
> > as he got older and most of his later ideas simply weren't feasible.
> >
>
> --
> Andre de Guerin :- Email <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Who is "General Failure" and why is he reading my hard disk ?
> 1+1=3 for very large values of 1
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "Nick Field" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: frequency analysis
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 00:16:40 +0100
If the cypher is half decent [anything more than a monoalphabet] that
approach will not work. I know of no such program, however one could write
such program over lunch.
binary digit <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:nD1K5.139300$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Anyone know of any programs out there that will try to do a frequency
> analysis on a peice of enciphered text and it will output occording to the
> amount of times a letter appears which letter is which?
>
>
------------------------------
From: Simon Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Perfect Compression Possible?
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 23:14:04 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Simon Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> : I was wondering if it was possible to generate a perfect compression
> : algorithm using the Berlekamp-Massey algorithm. If you took an
normal
> : piece of plain-text, and let the algorithm chew away for a long
while
> : eventually it would produce an LFSR that would exactly reproduce the
> : plain-text right?
>
> This isn't a "perfect compression algorithm". This is an algorithm
that
> works well on linear sequences, and not very well on non-linear ones.
>
> Linear shift registers can represent sequences that have linear
> representations well - but can be hopeless on other types of
> sequence.
> --
> __________ Lotus Artificial Life http://alife.co.uk/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> |im |yler The Mandala Centre http://mandala.co.uk/ ILOVEYOU.
>
Yeah, i wasn't aware this only worked on linear-looking output. In
light of previous posts, this has been made clear. Thanxs
--
Hi, i'm the signuture virus,
help me spread by copying me into Signiture File
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JPeschel)
Subject: Re: frequency analysis
Date: 27 Oct 2000 23:53:35 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>If the cypher is half decent [anything more than a monoalphabet] that
>approach will not work. I know of no such program, however one could write
>such program over lunch.
The results of doing single-character
frequency analysis, in addition to
solving monoalphabetical ciphers, help
you eliminate other cipher types.
There are a lot of single-character
frequency analysis programs around.
Seems to me Gwyn wrote a short one
here a while back, and I'll bet he
typed it nearly as fast he would type
any other short message.
Joe
__________________________________________
Joe Peschel
D.O.E. SysWorks
http://members.aol.com/jpeschel/index.htm
__________________________________________
------------------------------
From: Tom St Denis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: very large mult. div.
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 23:50:03 GMT
In article <8td1k8$ger$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In article <8td0ei$ff5$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Tom St Denis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > This is true (I have the series myself) but perhaps the OP was a
> lonely
> > 16 year old without a lot of money (kinda like me when I first
started
> > here...)
>
> And now thanx to us you are a still lonely, 16 year old with even less
> money. But at least you have more knowledge now.
Um, I am 18 with relatively loads of money (compared to most teenagers
I know). But the latter stmt is true.
The series are good (well the third volume is a bore) but the first two
(espescially the second) are a quite cool.
Tom
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Tom St Denis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Q: Computations in a Galois Field
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 23:51:59 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
John Myre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Tom St Denis wrote:
> <snip>
> > Why should I shut-up just so Bob can be the only poster here?
> <snip>
>
> Because of the poor bastards who read your (wrong) answers and
> accept them as fact. Misinformation is positively harmful.
>
> There's no reason why you can't be helpful. Just remember
> that posting without careful thought because "somebody will
> correct any slight mistakes" is how the poor clueless newbies
> get even more confused than when they started. This isn't
> a test, where the only thing that counts is what grade the
> teacher gives you. It's the real world (more or less), and
> real people can waste real time recovering from the wrong
> path on which you start them.
Well it's either a "little help that may be wrong" or "none at all". I
remember when I was trying to learn (and still am) rudimentary
cryptanalysis that often I would get a "never-reply". Only once in a
while (like from Mark Wooding...) a good post would come up...
I doubt that virtually all of my posts are wrong, so I hope what little
I have right may help.
Tom
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "Brian McKeever" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Q: Computations in a Galois Field
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:06:04 -0700
"kihdip" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8tb8u9$is$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> I looked into your glossary and just wondered about one thing:
>
> Field:
> In abstract algebra, a commutative ring in which all non-zero elements
have
> a multiplicative inverse. (This means we can divide.)
> - If the order of a ring is a prime, would it always be a field ??
No. It is easy to come up with examples of rings where some elements lack
inverses.
------------------------------
From: Marcus AAkesson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: nl.comp.crypt,alt.comp.opensource,alt.cellular.gsm
Subject: Re: End to end encryption in GSM
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 02:13:03 +0200
On Thu, 26 Oct 2000 21:11:32 +0300, Jouni Hiltunen
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Greetings, first apologies in cross posting this to
>hell and back, but I'm really interested in
>extending privacy to cellular communications.
That's OK, but turn off the bloody PGP Block.
>Here is the problem, present GSM system offers you
>an illusion of privacy, communications are
>supposedly secured by encryption. However, depending
>on the operator and country you might have weak or
>no encryption and no way to verify how your
>communications are secured. Also encryption only
>happens over the air interface i.e. between phone
>and base station from there on all communications
>are plain. To make matters worse, standards require
>manufacturers to design legal interception gateways
>into the switches.
>
>What I have in mind is program which you could
>download into your phone which allows Diffie/Hellman
>key exchange and encryption of the following call to
>make sure your private conversations remain private.
>
>Anybody interested in developing a program to do
>that? I sure as hell cannot do it myself,
>
>Anyone interested in e-mailing me, please use the
>public key below. Post the follow-ups to sci.crypt
As other have discussed, this would require heavily modified hardware,
and a lot of other things.
You are much better and cheaper off buying the product off the shelf.
There is a GSM phone with military-class end-to-end encryption
available, the Swedish Tiger. Cost is about USD 4000 / handset.
>From www.sectra.se
US Defense Department unit purchases Swedish Tiger
Sectra has received a strategically important order from the United
State European Command (USEUCOM) for the secure mobile telephone
Tiger. The order, which initially is for a small number of phones, is
valued at SEK 1 million.
"This order for the eavesdrop-secure GSM/DECT telephone Tiger is
highly pleasing. The order was secured in competition with some of the
world's largest telecom suppliers. This confirms our leading position
as supplier of secure systems to the world's most demanding
customers," says Per Unell, President of Sectra Communications AB. "
Sectra Tiger was developed in cooperation with experts from the
Swedish Defense. The Tiger system guarantees secure communications all
the way from the transmitter to the receiver, for voice and data
transmissions and SMS services. The telephone features integrated
encryption and GSM technology, making it very user-friendly. The Tiger
system operates with a standard subscription in the public GSM network
and fixed-wire network. Through use of the fixed telenet, the
telephone can be used in locations not reached by a GSM net.
Unites States European Command
Headquartered in Stuttgart-Vaihingen, Germany, the Unites States
European Command (USEUCOM) is one of the nine Unified Combatant
Commands in the United States Department of Defense. USEUCOM is
responsible for all US Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps and Special
Operations activities in Europe, Africa and the Middle East.
/Marcus
--
Marcus AAkesson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gothenburg Callsigns: SM6XFN & SB4779
Sweden
>>>>>> Keep the world clean - no HTML in news or mail ! <<<<<<
------------------------------
From: "slak-" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: working with huge numbers
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:32:06 -0700
An excellent, although monotonous, resource is something titled "The large
integer case study" ....
Duane Smurf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Wed, 11 Oct 2000 08:32:08 +0200, "DeSilva" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >So can anyone direct me to an online source of info on how to do this?
> >Quite frankly right now i dont want to sit and close read sourcecode in
> >order to figure out how and why one specific implementation does this, i
> >would much rather read some sort of tutorial on the subject... and right
now
> >i am not really interested in buying books on the subject.
> >
> >
> Oops! I realise this thread is stale but try here
>
>
ftp://ftp.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de/pub/TI/systems/LiDIA/LiDIA-2.x/LiDIA-2.
0/
------------------------------
From: "slak-" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Applied Cryptography software.
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:36:19 -0700
Hi, I was wondering if it's legal (I don't want to rip anyone's honest work
off) to download the sources from "Applied Crytography" by Bruce Schneier.
I'm just a poor student, and spent the last of my cash on the book.
I do live in America, in case anyone really cares about the NSA. Please get
in touch if you can, I'd be very interrested in checking them out.
Thank you.
------------------------------
From: Bill W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Software with embedded keys
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 20:36:42 -0400
Thanks for your answers, Eric and Tom, they were very helpful.
Bill
Eric Murray wrote:
>
> What you're looking for is commonly called software tamper-resistance.
> There's a number of companies that sell schemes that are supposedly
> tamper-resistant. The less cautious among those claim that they're
> tamper-proof. There's two basic methods, which are often combined--
> 1. hide the secret, and 2. keep the attacker from debugging or watching
> the software that controls where the secret is and how it's hidden.
>
> Even the best of these schemes are not very secure. When the attacker
> controls there's only so much obfuscation that you can do to slow him
> down. Sometimes that's enough if the fruits of the attack are minimal
> (i.e. the attacker takes a day to break the tamper-resistance and by
> doing so gets one key to one copy of a $.50 song). But making sure
> that's really all that happens takes quite a bit of thought.
>
> Generally, the answer to "is there actually a way of doing this that is
> actually (reasonably) secure" is No.
>
> --
> Eric Murray Consulting Security Architect SecureDesign LLC
> http://www.securedesignllc.com PGP keyid:E03F65E5
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marc)
Subject: Re: End to end encryption in GSM
Date: 28 Oct 2000 00:33:50 GMT
>You cannot "download" a software patch of that nature into GSM phones -
>one of the reason why viruses don't affect mobiles.
All modern GSM mobiles use FLASH for storing the firmware. For some of
them, the service software has leaked out and is available in the
internet. This is true at least for the Siemens C25, Ericsson A/T series,
and Panasonic GD90. With such a flasher (legal aspects left aside),
one is technically able to download any desired software patch into the
phone.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marc)
Subject: Re: End to end encryption in GSM
Date: 28 Oct 2000 00:33:56 GMT
>Anybody interested in developing a program to do
>that? I sure as hell cannot do it myself,
I'm interested, and my strenght is reverse engineering firmware,
and lowlevel programming. But I see no chance to finish this
project unless at least another 5 capable people join. Record
my email and get back when you feel that you can find them.
------------------------------
From: jungle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: the missed number of messages is more then 130 !!!
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 20:36:15 -0400
did anyone notice this ?
could anyone verify this problem ?
jungle wrote:
>
> I rebuild my data base of indexes [ deleted old & recreated again for this news
> group ] and now the gap reported is much much bigger !!!
>
> the gap is more then 24 hours ...
> the missed number of messages is more then 130
>
> what is going on ???
>
> From: zapzing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Newsgroups: talk.politics.crypto,sci.crypt,alt.freespeech,talk.politics.misc
> Subject: Re: I can post absolutely anything on the Internet for you to
> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:54:53 GMT
> Message-ID: <8t7a9o$pnc$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 169.139.115.67
> Xref: cyclone1.usenetserver.com sci.crypt:63039
>
> From: Jouni Hiltunen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Newsgroups: sci.crypt,nl.comp.crypt,alt.comp.opensource,alt.cellular.gsm
> Subject: End to end encryption in GSM
> Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 21:11:32 +0300
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: kg168u1hel.dial.kolumbus.fi
> Xref: cyclone1.usenetserver.com sci.crypt:63171
------------------------------
From: Bryan Olson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Is OPT the only encryption system that can be proved secure?
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 00:54:49 GMT
Peter Thorsteinson wrote:
> This much I know:
> Currently, it is commonly accepted that the xor-based one
> time pad (OTP) is the only perfectly secure cipher encryption
> system that has been mathematically proven impregnable by way
> of cryptanalysis. No other encryption systems currently in the
> public knowledge have been proven secure.
There's nothing all that special about XOR. All provable
systems are varieties of the OTP.
> Now, my question is:
> Has there been any mathematical proof developed that shows that
> the OTP is the only encryption system that can be provably secure.
> If anyone knows of any references, I would much appreciate it.
More or less, yes. Nothing else offers the type of security
offered by the OTP. I'm not sure whether anyone has already
posted the canonical reference, which is:
Shannon, Claude "Communication Theory of Secrecy Systems",
/Bell System Technical Journal/, Vol 28, Oct 1949, pgs
656-715.
Available on-line (as JPEG's of scans, yuck) at:
http://www3.edgenet.net/dcowley/docs.html
Note that it only deals with secrecy properties. The One-Time
Pad can also provide information-theoretically provable
authentication, as no other type of system can. In this case
a "universal hash function" plays the role analogous to XOR
(and again there are many specific functions that work). I
don't know of a reference for the authentication side that's
anywhere near as good as the Shannon paper.
--Bryan
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Collision domain in crypt()?
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 01:01:36 GMT
Tony L. Svanstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> It was MD5..
>>
>> Unfortunately, I don't have that hash list any more.. I overwrote it with
>> the 32-char digests.
>>
>> But I can can tell you that I was seeding the MD5 hash with a unique email
>> address, first and last name, current timestamp, current PID and a pseudo
>> random number which I thought should generate enough variety to give me unique
>> hashes..
> That just isn't right; either you did something that no one has ever
> been able to do before, or something wasn't working right.
I didn't think that seemed right either; I mean, if the mathematical possibilities
of a collision are near inifinity for 16-bytes, they should still be pretty high
for 8-bytes. :-/
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Collision domain in crypt()?
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 01:03:34 GMT
David Schwartz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> The digest from MD5 is 16 bytes (32 chars).
> How is 16 bytes 32 characters?
Hexadecimal output.
>> I was not suggesting that MD5 has
>> any collisions, but when I chopped the last 8 bytes off, I had several collisions
>> with existing records.
> Well, DON'T DO THAT THEN.
Hey, thanks for the helpful advice. I don't know why anyone continues to waste
brain processing on this.
To the others who clearly understand my original question and provided useful
information, much thanks.
Eric
------------------------------
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