Cryptography-Digest Digest #789, Volume #13 Sat, 3 Mar 01 20:13:00 EST
Contents:
Re: => FBI easily cracks encryption ...? ("Mxsmanic")
Re: test alpha ("Tom St Denis")
Re: OverWrite freeware completely removes unwanted files fromharddrive ("Tom St
Denis")
Re: => FBI easily cracks encryption ...? (Jeremy Bishop)
Re: => FBI easily cracks encryption ...? (nemo outis)
Re: => FBI easily cracks encryption ...? (William Hugh Murray)
Re: OverWrite freeware completely removes unwanted files fromharddrive (William Hugh
Murray)
Re: Is BORG mental patient Linda Gore SSRIHater?? Re: Fake SSRIHATER (Johan M.
Olofsson)
Re: Completly wiping HD (Benjamin Goldberg)
OT: Legitimacy of Governmental Power (Was: Re: => FBI easily cracks encryption
...?) ("CompuLar")
Re: Text of Applied Cryptography ("Ryan M. McConahy")
Re: philosophical question? (Virgil)
Re: Text of Applied Cryptography ("Tom St Denis")
Re: philosophical question? ("Tom St Denis")
Re: OT: Legitimacy of Governmental Power (Was: Re: => FBI easily cracks (William
Hugh Murray)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Mxsmanic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.security.pgp,talk.politics.crypto
Subject: Re: => FBI easily cracks encryption ...?
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 22:10:24 GMT
"Thomas Boschloo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> What I am missing in this discussion is traffic
> analysis by the NSA.
I believe I've already mentioned it.
> BTW Crypto even is a better target, if not too many
> people use it.
In the not-so-distant future, just about everything will be encrypted,
although which methods of encryption will be used are still open to
debate.
Most Web transactions are being secured already (by SSL).
------------------------------
From: "Tom St Denis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: test alpha
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 22:22:38 GMT
"Robert J. Kolker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> test alpha
>
test beta?
------------------------------
From: "Tom St Denis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.hacker
Subject: Re: OverWrite freeware completely removes unwanted files fromharddrive
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 22:23:02 GMT
"Dan Beale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:ATdo6.11479$I5.315150@stones...
>
> "Anthony Stephen Szopa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> <snip everything>
>
> Having cleared my kill-filter i am _amazed_ to find you still trolling the
> crypto groups Anthony. Have you learnt any math yet?
>
Why? Wild speculation is much more fun.
Tom
------------------------------
From: Jeremy Bishop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.security.pgp,talk.politics.crypto
Subject: Re: => FBI easily cracks encryption ...?
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 14:35:21 -0800
William Hugh Murray wrote:
> I became concerned about the legitimacy of this government early in the
> Clinton adminstation. I became concerned as the administration began to
> show a preference for lies when the truth would serve, for massive police
> force when time would serve, and, when as it had to, the necessary trust
> in government began to erode.
I take it you weren't paying much attention around '79 or '80 then[1].
Just about every large entity will lie out of habit; be it corporation
or government. "Acme Corp denied reports that..." is a phrase I see
quite often, followed shortly by confirmation of said 'reports'. I
think it's a natural consequence of living in a world where Clue is a
scarce resource and so people are primarily driven by petty fears and
jealously.
[1]Now /that/ is how to fix an election. Er, well, actually it was a
very poor way to do it, but it does score major points for daring.
--
"A pentagram approaches a circle for
sufficiently large values of five."
-- Jerry, in The Wizardry Cursed by Rick Cook
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: alt.security.pgp,talk.politics.crypto
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (nemo outis)
Subject: Re: => FBI easily cracks encryption ...?
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 22:50:39 GMT
Last time, during the Canadian census, I was a 96-year-old Lithuanian
immigrant living with a Ukrainian divorcee with our 13 illegitimate children,
with no indoor plumbing, and with Swahili as our mother tongue. I was
"renting" on the day of the census and moved, with no forwarding address, the
day after.
Regards,
In article <97rkun$tc4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "groj" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>I think really the intitial discussion was purely on a hypothetical
>basis. If we presume that the encoding was broken then there is
>obviously a flaw either in the initial algorithims or something we
>don't know. My initial post regarding the key logging was really
>more as a discussion point.
>If we are going to be truley paranoid then we would presume that the
>instance we download or initiate pgp or any encryption programme then
>a meesage is logged. That being the case and if we are all that
>paranoid it would be interesting to see how many of you have thoughts
>on National Census (what is the plural for this? Censii??? )
>As with Michael I live in New Zealand and in 2 days everybody
>(including those too young to fill one in) are required to complete a
>questionaire for the statistics department. Invasion of privacy or a
>collection of necessary information?
>I wonder how they would cope if I sent it in encoded!
>
>No I don't deal drugs or in fact scan porno sites. The encryption
>and the mathematics behind it is more a hobby. But then again I do
>use it to send some commercially sensitive information. Thoughts of
>the group on industrial espionage would be interesting. I am more
>concerned with my competitors knowing what I am doing than I am in my
>own Government waisting my tax dollars trying to figure out what I'm
>up to! All they need to do is ask!
>
>
>- --
>fingerprint
>2F4B 8981 BA71 0F1F E8BC 1A05 D6AB 0B7B 8A26 6A49
>
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.1 Int. for non-commercial use
><http://www.pgpinternational.com>
>
>iQA/AwUBOqCt+darC3uKJmpJEQLaOwCg82qtqvHyeU6pDxhkDlRkrwGHJrMAn1EE
>UgeQ9QtO6cVRaNjuJXoAP4tB
>=PFjD
>-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: William Hugh Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.security.pgp,talk.politics.crypto
Subject: Re: => FBI easily cracks encryption ...?
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 22:57:45 GMT
Jeremy Bishop wrote:
> William Hugh Murray wrote:
>
> > I became concerned about the legitimacy of this government early in the
> > Clinton adminstation. I became concerned as the administration began to
> > show a preference for lies when the truth would serve, for massive police
> > force when time would serve, and, when as it had to, the necessary trust
> > in government began to erode.
>
> I take it you weren't paying much attention around '79 or '80 then[1].
> Just about every large entity will lie out of habit; be it corporation
> or government.
Touche'.
> "Acme Corp denied reports that..." is a phrase I see
> quite often, followed shortly by confirmation of said 'reports'. I
> think it's a natural consequence of living in a world where Clue is a
> scarce resource and so people are primarily driven by petty fears and
> jealously.
>
> [1]Now /that/ is how to fix an election. Er, well, actually it was a
> very poor way to do it, but it does score major points for daring.
>
> --
> "A pentagram approaches a circle for
> sufficiently large values of five."
> -- Jerry, in The Wizardry Cursed by Rick Cook
------------------------------
From: William Hugh Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.hacker
Subject: Re: OverWrite freeware completely removes unwanted files fromharddrive
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 23:00:31 GMT
Dan Beale wrote:
> "Anthony Stephen Szopa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> <snip everything>
>
> Having cleared my kill-filter i am _amazed_ to find you still trolling the
> crypto groups Anthony. Have you learnt any math yet?
No, but not because we have not tried to teach him.
Would you leave if you were getting the attention he gets?
------------------------------
From: Johan M. Olofsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.support.depression.medication,soc.culture.russian,soc.org.kkk,dk.snak.mudderkastning,soc.culture.ukrainian
Subject: Re: Is BORG mental patient Linda Gore SSRIHater?? Re: Fake SSRIHATER
Date: 3 Mar 2001 17:12:03 -0600
Beeftain wrote:
> "alexplore" <alexplore@alexplore> wrote in message news:97jbuk$if6$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > Beeftain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:97j635$1sli$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > "alexplore" <alexplore@alexplore> wrote in message
> > news:97j1m4$687$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >
> > > > Beeftain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:97j0ii$1jf5$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > Pippelip gokkelok!
> > > >
> > > > You must be mentally ill like Linda Gore!
> >
> > Linda Gore is a mental patient on the "crazies groups"...
> > Very mentally ill... married 4 times... does a lot of
> > "psychiatric medications"... for 23 years in fact...
> > that and fucking drunks and posting about how to stuff their
> > limp dicks up her cunt.
> >
> > "Diagnossing" her son.... sees that he needs a lot of psychiatric drugs
> > too...
> >
> > Disgusting piece of shit! Someone out there will be husband #
> > 5 sooner or later.... always a horny asshole that will fuck anything... Ask
> > Igor Chudov and Yelena Purdunkova about that :)
>
> Who are they?
>
> > > Well, Al Gore _is_ mentally ill...
> >
> > Not so much as his wife "Tipper" (hell kind of name is THAT!)
>
> She discovered these Parental Advisory-stickers. It's narrow-minded.
>
> > > not very less than George Bush.
> >
> > at least his wife ain't eating head-drug pills like "Tipper" :)
> > or Igor Chudov...
>
> No, but any wife of Bush must be brainwashed. Bush is a f...... maniac.
>
> Which group are you writing in?
All of them, of course.
------------------------------
From: Benjamin Goldberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Completly wiping HD
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 23:52:08 GMT
Michael Brown wrote:
>
> "David Griffith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > I wish to completly wipe a 2gig harddisk. There is now no data i
> > want to keep, however neither do i want anything to be recoverable.
> > I thought a linux boot disk, root fs from a ramdisk , with a shell
> > script doing this kind of thing
> >
> > dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/hda
> > dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda
> >
> >
> > Is this enough to wipe it clean?
> > Is /dev/urandom enough so as not to run out random data?
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> >
> >
> A related question, would winding a whole heap of wires around the HDD
> then plugging it (the wires) into an AC source for a few hours be
> adequate (an not damage the hardware you want to keep)? Ie: putting
> the drive into the center of an oscillating electromagnet.
>
> Just a thought (not that I'm going to try it though),
> Michael
Not really. You'd have to put the wires around the plates for best
effect, and that is likely to physically damage them. Also, the data is
stored by magentic patterns which are on the surfact of the disk, so in
normal operation, the plates aren't magnetized. Thirdly, method you
suggest might cause the plates to be permanently magnetic, thus
destroying their future usefullness for data storage.
You would be much better off either destroying them outright and
forgetting about reusing them, or else many rounds of software wiping,
possibly followed by degaussing, and finally zeroing.
--
The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, theory and
practice are identical, but in practice, they are not.
------------------------------
From: "CompuLar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.security.pgp,talk.politics.crypto
Subject: OT: Legitimacy of Governmental Power (Was: Re: => FBI easily cracks
encryption ...?)
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 19:04:53 -0500
I think both kroesjnov and William make valid points. On one hand, in order
to govern effectively, a government (whatever its goals might be) must have
the faith of its citizenry-at-large. In a republic, through our votes, we
give our officials the power to govern -- to provide us with services of
various sorts. However, to quote a former schoolteacher of mine: "Democracy
is hard." It is slow and cumbersome. It also holds secrets from us --
sometimes for our own genuine protection, sometimes in order to perpetuate
itself. We must not forget that some oppressive, tyrannical governments in
the history of the world, such as Nazi Germany, came to power through
constitutionally legitimate means.
The debate between these two gentleman is interesting and valid, but one
that will not be solved any time soon. That is not to say that it should
not be discussed, because it is these debates that keep us on our toes, if
you'll excuse the clich�. It is through debate that we learn and continue
to solidify our own rational opinions.
My point -- after all this rambling -- is that law is essentially and
ultimately designed to cover every citizen. If one citizen can be subject
to a particular act of the government, chances are that any other citizen
could be as well. And that is why those of us with years under our belts or
history in our minds perk our ears when a government might be crossing over
the line of "legitimacy." We remember events such as the Red Scare or the
European Holocaust or the regime of Pol Pot or any of countless other
tragedies that have befallen the human race at the hands of a government
because it is very possible that they could happen again.
Take it for what it's worth.
CompuLar
"William Hugh Murray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> kroesjnov wrote:
>
> > > > Could not agree more with you.
> > > > Although I am not an American, I would not mind, if the BVD (Dutch
> > National
> > > > Intellegence service) would have this abillity.
> > > > I think they (Like any other country`s national intellegence
service)
> > should
> > > > try their very best, to make this possible...
> > >
> > > Were you in Holland when the Nazi's invaded and took over all the
police
> > > records?
> >
> > (Well this is going to be a touchy discussion...)
> >
> > Nope, I was not there.
> > I am only 19 years old.
> >
> > I think this is slightly off the topic, but I will run with it any way:
> >
> > I assume you are refering to the fact, that the Dutch administration
(and
> > with that, the National Intellegence agency) on people was to good
organized
> > (Thinks like race and religion where also archieved, so that the Nazi`s
had
> > a very easy job, finding out who was off jewish origin).
>
> I attended a privacy conference in Europe in the early 70's. I remember
that
> the Surete' knew who slept in every bed in France every night. The
Europeans
> were busy passing privacy legislation to protect the citizens from one
another
> while the police were busy building dossiers on their citizens, just doing
what
> bureaucrats do. The delegates to the conference seemed to see no
connection
> between these things. The exception were the Dutch. They remembered the
> invasion and the use of records kept for one reasonably benign purpose
being
> used by "legitimate" authority for another. A generation earlier the
French
> were killing one another in retribution for cooperating with the
legitimate
> authorities. Months before that, the legitimate government authority was
> chasing down and killing the resistance, not to mention men, women, and
children
> of the illegal religion. A generation ago the citizens of East Germany
were
> cooperating with the legitimate authority to keep records on one another's
> personal lives.
>
> > If you want my opinion on this:
>
> Not particularly. The young are almost universally on the side of what
they
> believe to be that of "truth and justice;" it is part of your beauty.
Those of
> us who have been around a few generations understand that it is easier to
be on
> the side of truth and justice than it is to know where that side is.
>
> > This was wrong afcourse, and so history has
> > teached us (The hard way).
>
> If history teaches us anything, it is that her lessons are not persistent.
The
> newest generation often forgets them and is forced to recapitulate them.
>
> > Yet I do not see the connection to the ability off a Secret Service
being
> > abble to crack an encrypted message (With effort afcourse), So that
> > Terrorist could be intercepted, who are going to bomb some building in
The
> > Netherlands, or any other Country in the World.
>
> The connection is subtle. What concerns us is that government is a big
and
> clumsy tool. It is difficult to control under the best of circumstances.
One
> man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. It is necessary to order
but not
> necessarily orderly. It is difficult to tell, much less preserve, the
> difference between the legitimate authority of government and tyranny.
The
> governed cannot always recognize it from the outside and the governing
seem to
> have an even greater difficulty seeing it from the inside. They become
confused
> between their doing what is legitimate and that what they are doing is
> legitimate.
>
> > Did I assume wrong, on what you are referring to? Or do I just missed
the
> > point you were trying to make?
>
> If you had been there, the point would have been obvious. Because you
were not,
> it was poorly made.
>
> > Please be patience with me, I may be slow off understanding...
>
> You may trust that we will be patient with you. It is usually the young
who
> lose patience first.
>
> > "Wisdom lies not in obtaining knowledge, but in using it in the right
> > way".....
>
> ....and in the ability to recognize the right way in a novel situation.
>
> While the young tend to believe that the world has always been as they
found it,
> it is in the nature of being young that all situations are novel. The
study of
> history can help. History are the stories we tell ourselves about who we
are
> and we got to be this way.
>
> >
> >
> > kroesjnov
> > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (remove nov to reply)
> > UIN: 67346792
> > pgp fingerprint: 4251 4350 4242 7764 80DA DB1C E2B2 850A DF15 4D85
>
> William Hugh Murray
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Ryan M. McConahy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.anonymous.messages,alt.security.pgp,talk.politics.crypto
Subject: Re: Text of Applied Cryptography
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 19:08:25 -0500
Anywhere for free on the net?
John Savard wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>On Fri, 2 Mar 2001 18:43:52 -0500, "Ryan M. McConahy"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote, in part:
>
>>http://www.cacr.math.uwaterloo.ca/hac/
>
>Wrong book. But you can buy a copy of the .PDF of Bruce Schneier's
>book on the CD-ROM from Dr. Dobb's.
>
>John Savard
>http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/crypto.htm
------------------------------
From: Virgil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: sci.crypt.random-numbers,de.sci.informatik.misc,sci.math
Subject: Re: philosophical question?
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 17:28:30 -0700
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Joe H. Acker) wrote:
> What I still don't grasp is how you can make the difference: As there
> are many more possible sequences with equal numbers of 1's and 0's, any
> individual sequence that occurs should more probably contain many 0's
> and 1's mixed up as contain only 1's. I understand the group argument,
> but I don't understand why it *doesn't* follow from it that it's less
> probable that an individual occurance of a sequence with only 1's occurs
> than an individual occurance of the usual 1's and 0's in a sequence.
>
> The claim that an individual sequence of only 1's is as probable as a
> "usual" random sequence seems to contradict directly to the group
> argument. Could anyone who has the time please point me in the right
> direction? Does it have something to do with infinite vs. finite random
> sequences?
Consider finite sequences of some fixed length, tehn incease the lengtrh.
00 01` 10 11 are all the 2-sequences and {0,1) is twice as fequent as
either {0,0} or {1,1}. Note: {a,b} is the _unordered_ set of a and b.
0000 0001 0010 0011 0100 0101 0110 0111
1000 1001 1010 1011 1100 1101 1110 1111 are all the 4 sequences, and
{0,0,1,1) is 6 times as frequent as either {0,0,0,0} or {1,1,1,1}
------------------------------
From: "Tom St Denis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.anonymous.messages,alt.security.pgp,talk.politics.crypto
Subject: Re: Text of Applied Cryptography
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 00:33:00 GMT
"Ryan M. McConahy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:3aa18702$0$30007$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Anywhere for free on the net?
Look troll boy, Applied Crypto IS NOT FREE.
Tom
------------------------------
From: "Tom St Denis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: sci.crypt.random-numbers,de.sci.informatik.misc,sci.math
Subject: Re: philosophical question?
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 00:34:17 GMT
"Virgil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Joe H. Acker) wrote:
>
> Consider finite sequences of some fixed length, tehn incease the lengtrh.
>
> 00 01` 10 11 are all the 2-sequences and {0,1) is twice as fequent as
> either {0,0} or {1,1}. Note: {a,b} is the _unordered_ set of a and b.
>
> 0000 0001 0010 0011 0100 0101 0110 0111
> 1000 1001 1010 1011 1100 1101 1110 1111 are all the 4 sequences, and
> {0,0,1,1) is 6 times as frequent as either {0,0,0,0} or {1,1,1,1}
The problem with your view is that you are discarding the ORDER of the
information.
0001 is not the same as 0010 or 0100 or 1000 ...
Tom
------------------------------
From: William Hugh Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.security.pgp,talk.politics.crypto
Subject: Re: OT: Legitimacy of Governmental Power (Was: Re: => FBI easily cracks
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 01:01:07 GMT
> Nazi Germany, came to power through
> constitutionally legitimate means.
Not true. Please go back and read the history again. It is well documented
that the Nazis came to power by terror, not by democratic process. They got
into government through the application of terror. They were not a majority in
government until after they burned the Reichstag. I do not know where this myth
got started but it is important to refute it. Democracy may have to account for
a lot of sins but that is not one of them.
------------------------------
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