Cryptography-Digest Digest #117, Volume #14 Tue, 10 Apr 01 03:13:01 EDT
Contents:
Re: I got accepted ("Tom St Denis")
latex matrix ("Tom St Denis")
Re: Patents for Enigma ?? (John Savard)
Re: Dynamic Substitution Question (John Savard)
Re: I got accepted (David A Molnar)
Re: Meant Naval Coordinates (Miguel Cruz)
Re: Steganography with natural texts ("John A. Malley")
Re: Virtual English Nation (Frank Gerlach)
Re: I got accepted (Jerry Coffin)
Re: patent issue (Paul Crowley)
Re: Concerning US.A.4979832 ("B. E. Busby")
Re: I got accepted ("Tom St Denis")
Re: Traffic analysis (Jerry Coffin)
Re: Traffic analysis ("Douglas A. Gwyn")
Re: I got accepted (Ian Goldberg)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Tom St Denis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I got accepted
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 03:08:19 GMT
"SCOTT19U.ZIP_GUY" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tom St Denis) wrote in
> <dPtA6.67621$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >> Congratulations. Which university, if I may pry?
> >
> >University of Windsor :-)
> >
> > >I would like to thank the posters in this group for if it weren't for
my
> >> >hours consumed posting and learning here I probably would not have
made
> >> >it!!!
> >>
> >> If true, that would make you the first person in the
> >> entire universe whose academic future was actually *improved*
> >> by spending all day on usenet.
> >
> >Cool, I hope to set this record :-)
>
> Tom watch the internet. My daughter when she went to Berkeley
> said there were guys smarter than her that bombed out due to
> there extreme additction to the internet.
>
>
>
>
> Did you try MIT or Berkeley?
>
> Then you could have meet Dave or Ron. I would rather meet Ron I
> hear his a nice guy.
In case you missed out. I ain't a yankee. Why would I go 3000 miles south
for skule?
Tom
------------------------------
From: "Tom St Denis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: latex matrix
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 03:08:59 GMT
I am teaching myself latex slowly....
My paper is about 4/12th done ... I need to know how todo multidimensional
matrices (2x2's and 4x4's...)
--
Tom St Denis
---
http://tomstdenis.home.dhs.org
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Savard)
Subject: Re: Patents for Enigma ??
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 03:14:56 GMT
On Mon, 09 Apr 2001 20:53:45 +0200, Frank Gerlach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote, in part:
>Enigma still "works", and IIRC somebody event got a patent for it. Getting
>a patent means ZERO.
That patent has expired.
Also, it's true that Germany was in no position to pursue Britain's
violations of the Enigma patents with respect to the Typex rotor
machine, but most people who have patents don't live in countries that
are at war with anyone at the moment.
John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/crypto.htm
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Savard)
Subject: Re: Dynamic Substitution Question
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 03:25:43 GMT
The only thing I'd hazard in that direction is something I said in
another post that was percieved as a mistake.
Anything that involves operations on the individual entries of a
substitution table, particularly if it could lead to that table
containing either any bijection or any table at all with valid
entries, as a means of creating the changed permutation, seems to be,
as far as I can tell, novel with the two exceptions of the Phillips
cipher and the MacLaren-Marsaglia ("Algorithm M") pseudorandom number
generator.
If you move too far beyond that, you collide with things like rotor
machines, that combine gear movements with plaintext, and that means
that if, for example, key feedback mode for DES _did_ conflict with
the patent, it would conflict with a part corresponding to a large
amount of prior art.
So I don't think anything involving a "virtual" table - unless the
virtual table is a subterfuge for something that can be achieved by
manipulating individual entries - can be considered novel. And if you
manipulate individual entries directly, the normal result is that you
can reach any state of the table - this is nowhere said in his patent,
but it is a useful litmus test to determine if individual entries are
really involved or not.
What I *don't* know - and would find interesting - is if the two
exceptions are sufficient to narrow the valid scope of the patent
closer to the "preferred embodiment", or if it covers ciphers that
involve any type of dynamic S-box. For example, does Bruce Schneier's
Solitare conflict with the Dynamic Substitution patent?
John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/crypto.htm
------------------------------
From: David A Molnar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I got accepted
Date: 10 Apr 2001 03:57:23 GMT
SCOTT19U.ZIP_GUY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Tom watch the internet. My daughter when she went to Berkeley
> said there were guys smarter than her that bombed out due to
> there extreme additction to the internet.
Let me second that...
-David
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.security.misc,talk.politics.crypto
Subject: Re: Meant Naval Coordinates
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Miguel Cruz)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 04:11:56 GMT
Mok-Kong Shen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My problem is of a different nature. I am not looking at the individual
> trees (threads). I am reading in sorted sequence of time, so that I see
> each recently posted message separately. If there is no 'Re', I can't
> distinguish a follow-up from the first article of a new thread.
You're using Netscape, right? I believe it has options to view in threaded
order. On Netscape Communicator 4.7 for the Mac, you can choose View -> Sort
-> By thread. Try it; you'll like it!
miguel
------------------------------
From: "John A. Malley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Steganography with natural texts
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 21:30:59 -0700
> I should very much appreciate comments and critiques.
Steganography can be viewed as modulation in the sense of communications
theory. A characteristic of a carrier signal alters in proportion to
some characteristic of a message signal.
The carrier in steganography must itself carry information. Most
communications systems don't require the carrier itself represent
information. They expect the characteristic of the carrier modulated by
the actual message signal to be robust in the presence of a given noise
model.
For example, AM communications systems change the amplitude envelope of
a fixed frequency carrier. The rate of change of the envelope is
proportional to the original message. The atmosphere attenuates the
overall amplitude of the AM wave when received but the frequency may be
chosen in a part of the spectrum where noise is relatively low.
Atmospheric attenuation of the AM signal puts a limit on recovery of the
carried message signal (if the envelope is attenuated too much.)
FM communications systems change the instantaneous frequency of a
carrier wave with constant amplitude. The signal can attenuate
drastically (compared to AM) but the frequency change can still be
detected and demodulated to recover the original message signal.
Steganography as modulation involves altering a characteristic of an
intelligible signal that acts as a carrier. The carrier signal must
remain intelligible after modulation for the steganographic signal to
remain undetected.
Only characteristics of the carrier not required for intelligibility
(i.e. in the same category as "noise" ) can and should be modulated for
steganography.
Consider the characteristics of text. Letters occur with certain
frequencies. Digraphs, trigraphs, n-grams occur with certain
frequencies. Text exhibits long-range "order" - sentences, paragraphs.
And humans use text to convey a story or an idea - themes, rhetoric,
patterns of argument, debate. Patterns of story-telling (the beginning,
middle, climax, conclusion) relate major portions of (long) text. We use
pace, tone and volume to convey information as well as the chosen words.
Human cognitive skill are tuned to recognize subtitles in the long-range
and short range structure of spoken and written language. We are good at
recognizing "stilted" language. We can vaguely detect lies or hidden
truths in the speaker's mind by the way they speak or the words they
choose. We can recognize altered cognitive processes in the heads of
others just by observing body language and listening to what someone
says as well as how they say it.
Modulating the larger "structures" of written language (such as word
choices or sentence structures) may alter the "flow" and pace of a text
in a way readily apparent to a native speaker of the language but not
easy for that speaker to pin-point. Trying to write or speak in such a
fashion is not easy since language is a deeply embedded neurological
phenomenon. We aren't even aware of "how" we generate a sentence while
speaking. Even writing is somewhat "automatic." As I write this I hold
an idea in my mind and strive to map it to a reasonable sentence
structure and then a collection of symbols in a proscribed order per
certain rules of syntax, grammar into typewritten ASCII.
Now try to consciously modulate it. :-)
The characteristics of the written text modulated for steganography must
not be required to understand it. Look for the equivalent of the "noise"
in the text - what is in the text that we ignore when it comes to
understanding it but is always present in the text. That is the likely
candidate for steganographic modulation.
I'm at a loss to point to anything in the larger structures of text
(like paragraphs of sentences and the development of an
idea/theme/argument/message in succeeding paragraphs) that is "noise"
and could be modulated without affecting the ability to understand the
text.
John A. Malley
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
P.S. Couldn't resist, here's my earliest memory of steganographic
"language" :
Frank Herbert in "Dune", first published in 1965, has the Fremen on
Arrakis using steganography to send secret messages to one another by
embedding temporary neural imprints on the nervous systems of bats and
birds with a device called a "distrans". The creature's normal cry then
carries the message imprint which can be sorted from the carrier wave by
another "distrans".
------------------------------
From: Frank Gerlach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.security.misc,talk.politics.crypto
Subject: Re: Virtual English Nation
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 07:16:43 +0200
"Trevor L. Jackson, III" wrote:
> So, is this an English idiom or a British idiom?
>
> > want to make up your mind whether you're talking about
> > the English or the British. They're not the same animal.
I know the difference between the England and Britain as much as I know the difference
between Prussians and Germans (although Prussians do not make up 80% of Germans).
What I was referring to is that Her Majesty's subjects (the people of UK, Australia,NZ,
Canada) seem to have a condescending attitude toward Americans. In addition to that
they
complain about American nukes (NZ) and American arrogance (see the NZ officer
accidently
killed in Kuwait). But whenever some dictator kicks their butt, they complain about a
lack
of solidarity by those people they made fun of five minutes before.
The WASP network (with its inofficial capital in London) was in my opionion the reason
all
kinds of fascist and communist dictatorships were defeated.
And when there is a common enemy, Scots, Welsh stop to complain about English
dominance.
The catholic Irish might be different, though.
------------------------------
From: Jerry Coffin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I got accepted
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 23:49:27 -0600
In article <DOuA6.68390$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
[ ... ]
> > Did you try MIT or Berkeley?
> >
> > Then you could have meet Dave or Ron. I would rather meet Ron I
> > hear his a nice guy.
>
> In case you missed out. I ain't a yankee. Why would I go 3000 miles south
> for skule?
Just for one example, consider that Niklaus Wirth (inventor of
Pascal, Modula, Modula II, Oberon, etc.) traveled all the way from
Switzerland to go to UC Berkeley.
Berkeley is also within easy driving distance of both Sonoma and Napa
valleys.
Even ignoring the education and the wine (which I'll admit most
people don't really appreciate until well after college age), there
are MANY good reasons to consider California for college, most
obviously the weather (and the bikini-clad women it attracts...)
--
Later,
Jerry.
The Universe is a figment of its own imagination.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: patent issue
From: Paul Crowley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 05:32:39 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Savard) writes:
> More to the point: why shouldn't people who can invent useful stuff do
> *that* as their day job, instead of in their spare time from an
> ordinary job? That way, there will be a lot more useful stuff getting
> invented.
Fortunately not everyone who has research as their day job has to
patent what they do. Patented cryptographic technology is largely
useless; crypto is all about communication, which is all about
standards, but standards have to work to avoid any patents out there
if they are to be widely implemented and used.
In general, if you invent and patent crypto technology as your day
job, then your day job is to find exciting new avenues of research,
then close them off, burn them down and salt the ground so no-one else
can explore there or use it for seventeen years or more. It's a
destructive occupation, rather than a constructive one.
--
__ Paul Crowley
\/ o\ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
/\__/ http://www.cluefactory.org.uk/paul/
------------------------------
From: "B. E. Busby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Concerning US.A.4979832
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 22:54:07 -0700
Two things come to mind reading the claims --
1) They're in "means plus function" format which has the
(at least in current practice) effect of narrowing the claims
to the means taught in the disclosure; and
2) There's no prosecution history here (an expensive thing to
buy unless you're seriously considering licensing the patent),
but the recent Festo decision has had the claims-narrowing
effect of precluding the use of the Doctrine of Equivalents
in reading claims that were amended to overcome issues
of patentability.
That said, my guess is the scope covers lookup tables wherein
entry swapping is performed in order to dynamically change the
mapping function.
This ain't advice, but it's worth every penny you paid for it!
"Terry Ritter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
<snippage...>
>
> As I recall, in the USPTO there is a later patent line which includes
> the words "dynamic substitution," but those words describe a clearly
> different mechanism.
>
> And even if later US patents have further developed my form of Dynamic
> Substitution, manufacturers and users will need a license from me to
> practice such an invention.
>
> Since I am not aware of any other "dynamic substitution" patent in the
> original sense, or of any other patents which bear on this invention,
> perhaps you could reference what you do mean.
>
<more snippage>
> Terry Ritter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.io.com/~ritter/
> Crypto Glossary http://www.io.com/~ritter/GLOSSARY.HTM
>
------------------------------
From: "Tom St Denis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I got accepted
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 05:58:56 GMT
"Jerry Coffin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <DOuA6.68390$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>
> [ ... ]
>
> > > Did you try MIT or Berkeley?
> > >
> > > Then you could have meet Dave or Ron. I would rather meet Ron I
> > > hear his a nice guy.
> >
> > In case you missed out. I ain't a yankee. Why would I go 3000 miles
south
> > for skule?
>
> Just for one example, consider that Niklaus Wirth (inventor of
> Pascal, Modula, Modula II, Oberon, etc.) traveled all the way from
> Switzerland to go to UC Berkeley.
>
> Berkeley is also within easy driving distance of both Sonoma and Napa
> valleys.
>
> Even ignoring the education and the wine (which I'll admit most
> people don't really appreciate until well after college age), there
> are MANY good reasons to consider California for college, most
> obviously the weather (and the bikini-clad women it attracts...)
And numero-uno reason for not going... the disease called "el-lacko-moola".
Tom
------------------------------
From: Jerry Coffin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Traffic analysis
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 00:03:24 -0600
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
says...
> Frank Gerlach wrote:
> > The hub should be an unsuspicious bogus server (such
> > as the "grandparents in London").
>
> Actually that would be quite suspicious, since normal people don't
> relay packets.
Quite a few people use intermediate servers to exchange photographs
-- e.g. www.photopoint.com and www.photo.net. I've got a small
selection of shots on the latter. Our resident kook who looks at
Kryptos and finds messages about god and the devil should be able to
find _plenty_ to feed his fertile imagination -- my photographs
certainly have a lot more raw bits to play with...
--
Later,
Jerry.
The Universe is a figment of its own imagination.
------------------------------
From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Traffic analysis
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 06:16:44 GMT
Jerry Coffin wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> says...
> > Frank Gerlach wrote:
> > > The hub should be an unsuspicious bogus server (such
> > > as the "grandparents in London").
> > Actually that would be quite suspicious, since normal people don't
> > relay packets.
> Quite a few people use intermediate servers to exchange photographs
> -- e.g. www.photopoint.com and www.photo.net.
I meant normal people's systems don't relay packets.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ian Goldberg)
Subject: Re: I got accepted
Date: 10 Apr 2001 06:36:36 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Jerry Coffin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <DOuA6.68390$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>
>[ ... ]
>
>> > Did you try MIT or Berkeley?
>> >
>> > Then you could have meet Dave or Ron. I would rather meet Ron I
>> > hear his a nice guy.
>>
>> In case you missed out. I ain't a yankee. Why would I go 3000 miles south
>> for skule?
>
>Just for one example, consider that Niklaus Wirth (inventor of
>Pascal, Modula, Modula II, Oberon, etc.) traveled all the way from
>Switzerland to go to UC Berkeley.
>
>Berkeley is also within easy driving distance of both Sonoma and Napa
>valleys.
Being a recent Berkeley grad myself, I *highly* recommend it
_for grad school_. But not for undergrad; too many students,
not enough resources.
>Even ignoring the education and the wine (which I'll admit most
>people don't really appreciate until well after college age), there
>are MANY good reasons to consider California for college, most
>obviously the weather (and the bikini-clad women it attracts...)
Note that Berkeley is in Northern California. It's not all that
hot there. Montreal has hotter summers than San Francisco.
But it's not all *that* far to do a weekend trip to SoCal, if you
want the bikinis and the beaches.
- Ian
------------------------------
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