"James A. Donald" <jam...@echeque.com> writes: >For password-authenticated key agreement such as TLS-SRP or TLS-PSK to work, >login has to be in the chrome.
Sure, but that's a relatively tractable UI problem (and see the comment below on Camino). Certificates on the other hand are an apparently intractable business, commercial, user education, programming, social, and technical problem. I'd much rather try and solve the former than the latter. The problem with password auth is that no browser (with the exception of Camino) has made even the most basic attempt to do the UI for this properly. In all cases the browser pops up a dialog box, unconnected to the underlying operation or web page, that says "Gimme your password" in one way or another. This could be coming from anywhere, the browser, Javascript on the web page, another web page, who knows where, but since everyone knows that passwords are insecure there's no point in expending any effort to try and make them secure, and that's been the status quo for fifteen years. What Camino does (and it's been awhile since I played with it, so I'll qualify that with "what I hope it still does") is roll the password-entry box down out of the browser menu bar in a circular motion that's both hard to spoof and that unmistakably ties the credential-entry request both to the web page that it's associated with and to the browser rather than being some floating popup coming from who knows where or what. This can no doubt be nitpicked, but it's better than any other browser (that I've seen) does. More generally, I can't see that implementing client-side certs gives you much of anything in return for the massive amount of effort required because the problem is a lack of server auth, not of client auth. If I'm a phisher then I set up my bogus web site, get the user's certificate-based client auth message, throw it away, and report successful auth to the client. The browser then displays some sort of indicator that the high-security certificate auth was successful, and the user can feel more confident than usual in entering their credit card details. All you're doing is building even more substrate for phishing attacks. Without simultaneous mutual auth, which -SRP/-PSK provide but PKI doesn't, you're not getting any improvement, and potentially just making things worse by giving users a false sense of security. Peter. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majord...@metzdowd.com