-Caveat Lector- *** British Columbia-the world's first direct electronic democracy under development http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/BCPolitics; http://users.uniserve.com/~culturex *** ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 14:58:50 -0800 (PST) From: Franklin Wayne Poley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [BCPolitics] Technology in Government Week. From: Franklin Wayne Poley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dear Mr. Manning: There is a full page ad in the Comdex Preview of Dec. 8, 1998 with the title above. I would be very happy to man a booth at the "Government Technology Exhibition" with which it is associated and display the Federal Reform Party's plan for the future of direct electronic democracy in Canada. The Exhibition is from October 18-20, 1999 at the Ottawa Congress Centre. The Comdex ad says it is "The world's largest forum on solutions for government service renewal." Sounds like something that would be right up your alley. See also http://www.zdevents.com Sincerely-FWP. *** British Columbia-the world's first direct electronic democracy under development http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/BCPolitics; http://users.uniserve.com/~culturex *** ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:52:12 -0800 (PST) From: Franklin Wayne Poley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: From NDP Lies to Liberal Lies? Dear BC Liberals: If you expect to hide behind a few procedural technicalities concerning binding, citizen-initiated referenda on Nisga'a or anything else, think again. There is the spirit of the law in a "democratic society" (quote from Canadian Constitution/Charter of Rights and Freedoms) and that will prevail. Imagine that the inevitable march of the internet is now 5 years along. At the press of a button, an organizer can reach everyone in a riding or close to it. Imagine that the Citizens in that riding have agreed on a position on a vitally important matter like this and the MLA is playing "dog in the manger (of democracy)". At the next press of the button that organizer asks if this MLA should be recalled. That is how I expect this to play out over the next 5 years. If you think otherwise tell me how you might stop it? Last night the historian, Toynbee was quoted on a tv show as saying that people either embrace the progressive forces in history or those forces sweep them under. That couldn't be more true than for "direct electronic democracy". So, which is it going to be? Will you embrace it and lead it or follow and get swept under politically by it? My offer stands to help set up a "Freenet" with public access kiosks in any riding....the Farrell-Collins riding is close by for me. But I'll travel anywhere in BC to expedite such a system. FWP. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:24:19 -0800 (PST) From: Franklin Wayne Poley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [BCPolitics] Re: Restrictions on the Power of CITIZENS re Undertaking Referenda? (fwd) From: Franklin Wayne Poley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dear Mr. Weisgerber: Though you now sit as an Independent it seems to me you still retain the "binding, citizen-initiated referendum and recall" part of the platform you had as BC Reform Leader. Could you please give some thought to the ideas below? Especially given the new technology of the internet and digital voting machines I think we can make the 1996 Recall and Initiative Act work as the 1991 vote intended it to work. I would also think that those political leaders who are particularly influential with private business concerns can make the 1996 Act "workable". Sincerely-FWP. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:01:34 -0800 (PST) From: Franklin Wayne Poley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Elections BC EBC:EX" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [BCPolitics] Re: Restrictions on the Power of CITIZENS re Undertaking Referenda? From: Franklin Wayne Poley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dear Elections BC: Thank you very much for the finer distinctions between referendum, plebiscite and initiative as defined under the laws of British Columbia. It will be important for us in procedural terms to understand these differences as we move the system towards a Citizens' Democracy. My Webster's dictionary defines referendum as "the principle or practice of referring legislative measures to the voters for approval or rejection; also: a vote on a measure so submitted." I think it is in this sense that the general public understood the call of the Official Opposition for a referendum on the Nisga'a Treaty and I also expect that they would want the results to be binding on the Government. I think I know how the Official Opposition (BC Liberals) can proceed with a binding, Citizen-initiated referendum as defined by Webster's using the 1996 Recall and Initiative Act and I would ask that you please correct me if I have made any errors below in suggesting how to proceed. On Fri, 18 Dec 1998, Elections BC EBC:EX wrote: > Referendums may only be ordered by the Lieutenant Governor in Council (the > Government). This is done under the authority of the Referendum Act. > Plebiscites may be ordered, again only by Government, under the authority of > the Election Act. The Government, by Regulations, determines the manner by > which either a referendum or plebiscite are to be conducted. > > The results of a successful referendum are binding on the Government; the > results of a plebiscite are not. > > Under the Recall and Initiative Act, initiative is a process that allows > registered voters to propose new laws or change existing laws. A suggested > law must be within the constitutional jurisdiction of the Legislature of > British Columbia and not a matter of federal responsibility. This is where I am not completely sure of a Nisga'a initiative which would be binding on the Government meeting the Webster's definition above plus your defining characteristic of referendum as 'binding on the Government'. Since the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs would not reply to my question I took it to the Ombudsman's Office. According to the "Comprehensive Framework Treaty" by former President of the Union of BC Indian Chiefs, Chief Saul Terry (May 15,1991) and the near full-page proclamation by the Okanagan Nation in the Province newspaper of Oct. 15, 1992, the Governments of BC and Canada have no more jurisdiction over a First Nation than they do over Russia. So my question of the Government is just what their understanding of the Terry and Okanagan papers is. Succintly, do thy agree that First Nations are sovereign nations? This is of course outside the laws administered by your office but I present it for a backgrounder. > Any registered voter can apply to have a petition issued to gather support > for a legislative proposal. A legislative proposal (draft Bill) can be on > any matter within the jurisdiction of the Provincial Legislature. A > registered voter who wants to start an initiative petition must obtain an > application form from the Chief Electoral Officer. The completed > application form must be submitted to the Chief Electoral Officer with a > processing fee of $50 and a copy of the proposed law in the form of a draft > Bill. Thank you. Any registered voter can start an initiative petition including any member of the Official Opposition. > If the application is approved, a petition is issued to the applicant > (called a "proponent") 60 days later. The proponent then has 90 days to > collect signatures of 10% of the registered voters in each electoral > district. The proponent may be helped by volunteers when canvassing for > signatures. > > When all the signed signature sheets are submitted, the Chief Electoral > Officer has 42 days to verify that enough valid signatures have been > collected. If the verification process shows that sufficient signatures > have been collected and the financing requirements have been met by the > proponent, the Chief Electoral Officer sends a copy of the petition and > draft Bill to a Select Standing Committee of the Legislature. > > The Select Standing Committee on Legislative Initiatives must meet within 30 > days of receipt of the initiative petition and draft Bill. The Select > Standing Committee has 90 days to consider the legislative proposal. Within > 90 days the Committee must either table a report recommending introduction > of the draft Bill or refer the initiative petition and draft Bill to the > Chief Electoral Officer for an initiative vote. > > If an initiative vote is required, initiative votes must be held every three > years, on the last Saturday of September, starting in 1996. If more than > 50% of the total number of registered voters in the Province vote in favour > of the initiative, and more than 50% of the total number of registered > voters in each of at least 2/3 of the electoral districts in the Province > vote in favour of the initiative, the Chief Electoral Officer must declare > an initiative vote to be successful and the Government must introduce the > Bill at the earliest practicable opportunity. > > After a Bill is introduced into the Legislature, the requirements of the > Recall and Initiative Act have been satisfied, and any subsequent reading, > amendment, or passage of the Bill will proceed as with any other Bill, with > no guarantee of passage. > > Elections BC "No guarantee of passage". Now I take it that when the Liberal Opposition called for a referendum they wanted something which would be binding on the Government. Therefore I am recommending that they save the Citizens of BC the time and trouble which would be associated with an initiative with "no guarantee of passage" and the time and trouble of taking the matter to a court. I am recommending that they draft the initiative they want under the 1996 Recall and Initiative Act and proceed as above only until the point at which it would be submitted to the Select Standing Committee on Legislative Initiatives. Moreover, they would endeavour to collect enough signatures to satisfy the criterion for a referendum to be binding under the Referendum Act. Your office would tally the result and if the initiative petition meets that criterion it has served the function of a referendum. To make it binding on the Government, the MLA's sponsoring this initiative would undertake to recall under the 1996 Recall and Initiative Act those MLA's voting in the Legislature in such a way as to thwart the will of the Citizens of BC. I think that recall action could be written into the initiative at the outset could it not? Instead of then presenting the initiative to the Select Standing Committee on Legislative Initiatives it would be presented to the Legislature in another manner, e.g. as a private member's bill and recall would be undertaken against the MLA's who vote against it. This procedure may need some fine tuning but I am sure the 1996 Recall and Initiative Act leaves enough manoeuvring room to use it for "binding, citizen-initiated referenda and recall" as long as there are MLA's who want it to serve that purpose. When 80% of the Citizens of BC voted for initiative and recall legislation in 1991 I am also sure that "binding, citizen-initiated referenda and recall" is what was sought and that is therefore the spirit of the law. I appreciate any additional input you may be able to provide so that we can get the letter of the law and the procedures correct. Sincerely-FWP. > > ---------- > > From: Franklin Wayne Poley[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: December 17, 1998 9:31 AM > > To: Elections BC EBC:EX > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Restrictions on the Power of CITIZENS re Undertaking > > Referenda? > > > > Dear Office of the Chief Electoral Officer: Could you please confirm for > > me and the BCPOLITICS list that my understanding of the 1996 Recall and > > Initiative Act is correct? That is, Mr. Campbell and his Official > > Opposition are not prevented from undertaking the referendum they say > > they want because they hold seats in the Legislature. > > Sincerely-FWP. > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:39:09 -0800 (PST) > > From: Franklin Wayne Poley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "DeWit, Antoinette" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], > > [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], > > [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], > > [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], > > [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], > > [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], > > [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], > > Nisga'[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: [BCPolitics] Liberal Party Lies? > > > > From: Franklin Wayne Poley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Or just ignorance ? I hope the local media will follow up. You have the > > same power under the 1996 Recall and Initiative Act to initiate a > > referendum as any other CITIZEN, Mr. Farrell-Collins. > > So I repeat-What is stopping you given that your party (The Official > > Opposition) keeps shouting for a referendum on the Nisga'a Treaty? Given > > that you have almost as many seats as the NDP Government. Or are you > > deliberately lying to us? > > FWP. > > > > On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, DeWit, Antoinette wrote: > > > > > The Official Opposition does not have the authority to initiate a > > > referendum ... we can and have put the idea forward but ultimately the > > > decision is in the hands of the government. > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > Gary Farrell-Collins, MLA > > > Official Opposition House Leader > > > > > > *** British Columbia-the world's first direct electronic democracy under > > development http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/BCPolitics; > > http://users.uniserve.com/~culturex *** > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > > > *** British Columbia-the world's first direct electronic democracy under development http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/BCPolitics; http://users.uniserve.com/~culturex *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. 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