-Caveat Lector-
Hawk wrote:
>
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> William... I am having to post this directly to you because I quickly use up my
>alloted 7 posts per day.
>
> William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
>
> > -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > Hawk,
> > Thank you for serving our country. As a veteran, you put your life on the line
>for the country and
> > that is to be respected. That's why I don't quite understand your political
>position.
>
> The fact that I "put my life on the line" is precisely what started me on the road
>to my political
> position. I was in the USAF for almost seven years as a professional military
>officer and aviator.
> During three of those years, I was involved in what later became known as the "Delta
>Force," but which
> then was "Blue Triangle" and a couple of other secretive names. As such, I engaged
>in numerous
> "informal" wars, insurrections, and general mayhem for the govm't of the U.S. --
>often not even allowed
> to wear the uniform (we called these "T-shirt and blue-jean missions). I was also
>in VietNam quite a
> bit, before the conflict became a "war." In all of those missions, we were directly
>involved on the
> "wrong" side, or were sticking our noses into other peoples' affairs, generally
>helping some dictatorial
> govm't obtain or maintain its harsh control over the populace. Then, for three more
>years, I was
> directly involved in intelligence gathering operations. For three years, every
>morning, I saw "raw
> intelligence" -- information that had not been "laundered" for public consumption.
>Not one time -- and
> I mean not even ONCE -- did the truth about what was going on reach the average
>American. We were lied
> to on a continual basis, and are being lied to at the present time. I was trained
>in the process of
> developing "cover stories" about things that happened, and I can spot the various
>techniques because
> they are still in use today. In short, I distrust our govm't precisely because I
>know it to be a lying
> and manipulative government that has been and still is involved in an active effort
>to deny or reduce
> the freedom of everyone here and abroad. So, you see, neither I nor anyone else "in
>the service of this
> country" is responsible for the freedom that I do enjoy, and cerainly not for the
>freedom of people in
> other countries.
This may have come as a shock to you, but there were many people
around who knew
what the imperialist government was doing. And why. It seems that you
haven't yet learned why the government does what it does and why it
must do it all secretly.
I'll give you a hint, it's not because they are democratically
controlled by us.
How many innocent people did you kill even knowing the false pretenses
you were
fighting under? Why should you not be considered a war criminal? This
is not a
rhetorical question.
> snip>
> I do not say that "owning a human being is a humane idea" -- but neither is it an
>inhumane act. Anyone
> who understands the bible (which I allow as the only reliable source of determining
>"good" and "evil"),
> should quickly pick up on the idea that God does not consider the institution of
>slavery as evil. And
> if God doesn't consider it evil, then I certainly am not going to condemn HIM for
>His position on it.
> It is clear from the Bible that involuntary servitude is not preferable in many
>cases, but it is not
> condemned. It is the abuse of the relationship that is condemned.
Why am I not surprised that you justify slavery on the basis of this
superstitious
nonsense? Your slaver ancestors used it for the same purpose.
snip>
>
> Same here... Some of my ancestors lived in S. Carolina. They were a large and
>prosperous family, and
> when the Union army came through, they burned 30 of the Willis plantations to the
>ground, leaving only
> one standing, and it had been set fire to.
Gee that's too bad. War is heck. I'll bet the slaves just hated to
leave your
wonderful family.
snip>
> > But slavery was an evil institution.
>
> That is merely your opinion, and it does not comport with the Bible. You are
>welcome to it, and you are
> certainly not alone in that opinion. But I base my criteria on "stronger stuff"
>than personal opinion.
> By the way, at one time I would have agreed with you. I was "compelled" to study
>slavery in order to
> support my position that it was evil, but my study resulted in forcing me to reject
>my initial beliefs
> concerning it. As you may have gathered, I am VERY libertarian in my political
>philosophy. As a
> libertarian, I would have to reject slavery, either an an owner or a slave. But as
>a Christian, I
> cannot condemn it.
I don't know dude...you sound like one confused puppy to me.
>
> > ...and it brutalized both the slaves AND their owners.
>
> pure conjecture, and I disagree with your position on that.
>
> > In order to justify the system, white Southerners had to practice a form of denial.
>
> No... All they had to do was adhere to the Bible. As such, it is not "a form of
>denial." In order to
> be an abolitionist, one had to adopt a form of denial, however, in rejecting the
>teachings of scripture
> and the entire history of human dealings with each other.
There's no end to the evils perpetrated by people like you in the name
of religion.
It's in the NT that Paul tells slaves to obey their masters. The OT
is much more
libertarian. Biblical Israel was not a slave based economy as was
Greece and Rome
and their cultural offshoots Christian Europe and Christian America.
snip>
> > Do you really believe that the United States would have been better off to have
>tolerated the
> > institution of slavery?
>
> Yep... Better off than it is now, which is a nation where (as in my case) the govm't
>confiscates over
> half of my annual income; and either controls, regulates, monitors, or taxes every
>single activity of my
> life -- and is moving steadily toward turning me over to the control of a godless
>"one-world"
> government. Slavery was not eliminated by the war... it merely changed its
>appearance.
Do you mean to wage slavery?
> > ...that the enslavement of human beings was a good idea?
>
> Whether or not it is a "good idea" depends on several factors. I personally do not
>wish to own a slave
Whether you wish to or not is irrelevant. You can't because we ( the
society in
which you live ) won't let you own slaves. You'll just have to live
with it and
whine about it. Poor guy. They just won't let you do what you want to
make an
honest buck.
> nor be a slave... So it isn't a "good idea" to me in most respects. I can say
>clearly, however, that it
> isn't an evil idea.
snip>
> > The Union was in the right to put an end to slavery. The South was in the
> > wrong. The issue has been decided.
>
> Oh, how rediculous.... The issue was decided by force of arms, which is a poor
>substitute for reason.
>
> Hawk
Well Hawk, you've convinced me. When I grow up I want to be just like
you.
Joshua2
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