-Caveat Lector-
"Separation of church and state" doesn't appear anywhere in the
constitution... It's clear the founding fathers created the law to save
religion from the control of the Government.. Simply because of where and
why they came here. As a matter of fact, it was unconstitutional to take
prayer out of schools. If you look at the founding fathers true history you
will find they had faith in God and read the bible almost daily... "We hold
these truths to be self-evident that all men are *created* equal." Notice
it doesn't say "that all men evolve equal..." It's clear what the intent
of the law was.
Jamie
> from:
> http://www.zolatimes.com/V2.44/pageone.html
> <A HREF="http://www.zolatimes.com/V2.44/pageone.html">Laissez Faire City
> Times
> - Volume 2 Issue 44</A>
> The Laissez Faire City Times
> December 28, 1998 - Volume 2, Issue 44
> Editor & Chief: Emile Zola
> -----
> Religious Right, Religious Rights:
>
> an interview with Americans United
>
> by Alberto Mingardi
>
>
> "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
> prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . . ": This is the First
> Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, which provides for the separation of
> Church and State, and hence for School and State.
>
> In the opinion of members of Americans United for Separation of State
> and School (AU) today the First Amendment is under threat as never
> before.
>
> Instead, for AU,
>
>
> "today, powerful religious leaders and misguided politicians have joined
> forces to undercut the First Amendment. Since 1947, Americans United has
> worked to protect the constitutional principle of church- state
> separation, a vital cornerstone of religious liberty. Americans of many
> faiths and political viewpoints, individuals from all walks of life,
> have come together to defend freedoms. Mandatory prayer in public
> schools, tax dollars for parochial schools, government intrusion into
> religious affairs and meddling in partisan politics by religious groups
> are among the troubling issues that threaten the protective wall between
> church and state."
>
> Americans United has more than 50,000 members-- 50,000 persons whose
> ideas, in my humble opinion, are maybe a bit confused. Reading AU's
> Private School Vouchers: Myth vs. Fact in fact you can find both
> libertarian-leaning objections to "vouchers", such as
>
>
> "If the government underwrites private schools financially, it has a
> right and a responsibility to ensure that the funds are being spent for
> sound educational services. Greater government scrutiny of private
> education will be necessary. Vouchers open the door to extensive state
> regulation of private schools . . ."
>
> and statist objections, such as
>
>
> "The driving forces behind vouchers are not parents, but sectarian
> school lobbies and political fringe groups such as the Libertarian
> Party."
>
> The general feeling is of a liberal (in the American sense of the word)
> group with secular roots, whose principal concern is about religious
> tolerance.
>
> A libertarian purpose for a less statist 1999 would be to help such
> persons to understand that the fight for preserving tolerance would be
> ineffective given that the overseer--the State--is the real enemy of
> tolerance.
>
> To discuss these issues with Americans United, The Laissez Faire City
> Times interviewed AU's Assistant Director of Communications, Rob Boston
> .
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> What are the real dangers for the First Amendment in the US now?
>
> Last year Religious Right groups attempted to amend the U.S.
> Constitution by adding a so-called "Religious Freedom Amendment" that
> would have removed the principle of separation of church and state. This
> effort was not successful. We expect to see another attempt in 1999,
> although this one too will probably fail.
>
> What are your positions about school vouchers and generally the school
> system?
>
> Americans United strongly opposes private school vouchers. We believe
> that religious schools should be supported by the faiths that own and
> operate them. Forcing the taxpayer at large to support religious schools
> is in effect taxing them to pay for religion. Church taxes are
> unacceptable to most Americans. Plus, religious schools are not required
> to educate all children, as public schools are. As long as they can
> discriminate in admissions, they should get no public support. Finally,
> we believe that extending taxpayer aid to religious schools will lead to
> eventual government regulation of those schools (in America, the
> government always regulates what it subsidizes), leading private schools
> to lose their independence.
>
> But the Religious Right isn't the only sponsor of vouchers. How do You
> explain the support to this campaign from non-Christian people like the
> Nobel- Prize winner Milton Friedman?
>
> Secular conservatives [Mingardi's note: to call Milton Friedman a
> "conservative" is something like calling John Kenneth Galbraith a
> revolutionary] like Friedman pioneered the voucher concept. Religious
> Right activists actually came to the idea late. Many of them opposed
> vouchers for a long time (and some still do) fearing that taking
> government aid would open them up to extensive regulations from the
> state.
>
> What does the Religious Right in your opinion represent for the whole
> Right and the GOP in the US?
>
> The Religious Right is attempting to take over the Republican Party.
> They want the power to cleanse the party of all moderates and
> individuals who favor positions like legal abortion and gay rights.
> Their views are extreme and intolerant and represent a threat to the
> freedoms of all Americans. Religious Right activists believe that only
> their religious view--fundamentalist Christianity--is correct and
> therefore it should receive support from the government. This runs
> counter to the tradition of religious liberty that was part of the
> reason for the founding of the United States. We were designed to be a
> nation that welcomes all religious faiths, not a country with an
> established church or where members of certain faiths receive more
> rights than others.
>
> Some people (including a lot of libertarians, and including the
> interviewer) say that the reasons to separate State and Church are the
> same as those for separating School and State. Do you have any comment
> on this?
>
> We have no objection to people sending their children to private
> religious schools. In fact, we believe they have a constitutional right
> to do so. However, they do not have the right to expect others to pay
> for it. As long as there is a public school system in the United States,
> we believe it should be free from denominational control and taxpayer
> supported. Private religious schools will have to find their own means
> of support.
>
> We've spoken about two things: State and Church. Please define what the
> 'State' means for AU supporters, and what they want for the US: a return
> to all the Bill of Rights, or only a better application of the First
> Amendment?
>
> "State" for our members equals any unit of government--local, state or
> federal. We believe government at all levels must refrain from
> endorsing, supporting or entangling itself with religion. As for what
> our members want, it's simple: To maintain the separation of church and
> state that has served our country so well. We are determined to protect
> this important principle from unprincipled attacks by the Religious
> Right and others.
>
> -30-
>
>
> from The Laissez Faire City Times, Vol 2, No 44, December 28, 1998
> -----
> The Laissez Faire City Times is a private newspaper. Although it is
> published by a corporation domiciled within the sovereign domain of
> Laissez Faire City, it is not an "official organ" of the city or its
> founding trust. Just as the New York Times is unaffiliated with the city
> of New York, the City Times is only one of what may be several news
> publications located in, or domiciled at, Laissez Faire City proper. For
> information about LFC, please contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Published by
> Laissez Faire City Netcasting Group, Inc.
> Copyright 1998 - Trademark Registered with LFC Public Registrar
> All Rights Reserved
> -----
> Aloha, He'Ping,
> Om, Shalom, Salaam.
> Em Hotep, Peace Be,
> Omnia Bona Bonis,
> All My Relations.
> Adieu, Adios, Aloha.
> Amen.
> Roads End
> Kris
>
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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==========
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance�not soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
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