-Caveat Lector-
Thanks, Brian, for the great post. If anyone else on the list is
interested in this topic, read linguist Barry Fell's "America BC" ...also
the works
of an anthropologist named Goodman, affiliated with the University of
Arizona during the 1970s ("American Genesis").
The early history of the Americas is filled with a number of anomalies:
Roman and Phoenician coins and artifacts found in the Miss valley, the
standing stones of New England(....Arabic
inscriptions found in the deserts
of the American southwest, not to mention the possibility of Asian
visitors... or the similarity between the culture of MesoAmerica and
Egypt, or the mysterious African-featured stone heads of La Venta
(suggesting a Mesoamerican link with Africa)..
Did Chris (Columbus) have access to an ancient map?
Perhaps the Book of Mormon's fanciful narrative of Semites in America
(Lamanites and Nephites) has some basis in fact. who knows.
Thanks for the interesting post,
Wm
On Wed, 6 Jan 1999, Brian Redman wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> I chanced across the article below while going through
> old New York Times from year 1925. It suggests a different
> history of the American continent than is usually supposed.
>
> Brian Redman | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.shout.net/~bigred/cn.html
> Editor-in-Chief | ---------------Phone: 217-356-4418----------------
> Conspiracy Nation | "The perfect slave thinks he's free."
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>
> PUZZLING "RELICS" DUG UP IN ARIZONA STIR SCIENTISTS
> ================================================================
> Purport To Chronicle The Arrival Of Roman Jews There In 775 A.D.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> [New York Times, December 13, 1925]
>
> TUCSON, Ariz., Dec. 12 -- After investigation by a number of
> scientists, first announcement was made here today of the
> excavation near Tucson of cast lead swords, crosses and other
> objects bearing Latin and Hebrew inscriptions which, taken at
> their face value, are held to mean that Roman Jews crossed the
> Atlantic in the Dark Ages, penetrated to Arizona and founded a
> kingdom which lasted from about 700 A.D. to 900 A.D.
>
> The cast symbols and the engravings on them include crosses, a
> crescent, a seven-branched candlestick and certain Masonic-like
> representations.
>
> Opinions of scientists vary as to the authenticity of the
> objects. Neil Merton Judd, curator of American archaeology of the
> United States National Museum, said he believed that no hoax or
> fraud was involved, but he thought the date later than that of
> the Spanish conquest of 1540 A.D.
>
> Dr. Byron Cummings, Professor of Archaeology of the University of
> Arizona, vouched for the reliability of the discoverers of the
> objects, which, he said, "show Jewish and Christian influence and
> bear dates of 700 to 900 A.D."
>
> On the other hand, Dr. Bashford Dean, curator of arms and armor
> of the Metropolitan Museum of Art of New York City, when
> consulted about the excavations, branded the objects as crude and
> childish forgeries.
>
> The first object to be found was a large metal cross, which was
> discovered by Charles E. Manier of Tucson, embedded in a
> limestone formation, five feet five inches below the surface of
> the land, near an old lime kiln. Further digging by Mr. Manier
> and Thomas W. Best uncovered the other objects. Analysis showed
> that they were made with lead mixed with antimony, silver and
> rome tin. This was described by Professor Cummings as a natural
> alloy.
>
> -+- Noted Scientists Examine Objects -+-
>
> The objects and site have been examined by Professor A.E.
> Douglass, noted astronomer and chronologist of the Lowell
> Observatory; Professor Frank H. Fowler of the College of Letters,
> Arts and Sciences of the University of Arizona; Dr. C.J. Saria, a
> geologist; Professor Cummings, Neil H. Judd and others.
> Descriptions of the objects and the texts of the inscriptions
> have been sent to scholars in many parts of the country.
>
> The combination of Christian cross, Moslem crescent, Hebraic
> seven-branched candlestick and Freemasonry emblems has imposed a
> heavy tax on the credulity of investigators, but their appearance
> of having been covered and embedded in stone by natural processes
> has puzzled skilled archaeologists. Some have arrived at the
> opinion that, whatever their origin, the objects lay for
> centuries in the earth where they were found.
>
> The inscriptions have been interpreted as describing the
> conflicts of the pre-historic Roman-Jewish kingdom in the
> Southwest with the Toltec Indians, forerunners of the Aztecs.
> >From the inscriptions it has been deduced that the mysterious
> invaders called their land "Calalus." Using the texts as a basis
> for the work, Laura Coleman Ostrander, historian of Tucson, has
> sketched the history of rulers of Calalus, her dynasty consisting
> of Theodorus, Jacobus, Isreal [sic] the First and Isreal [sic]
> the Second.
>
> Some scholars to whom the materials have been submitted have been
> slow to accept the finds as authentic because of the character of
> the objects and the frequency of archaeological frauds. The
> danger of indorsing another Cardiff [unclear] of a monument of
> the "Bil Stumpe His Mark(?)" type has generally caused
> investigators to be cautious, but it is alleged that those who
> have examined the site have come to the conclusion that the
> things were not planted as a hoax, but have been there for a
> considerable period of time. They were found in September, 1924,
> fifteen months ago -- a longer period than any motion picture
> press agent, as a rule, would allow for the incubation of a
> publicity dodge.
>
> -+- Finders' Story of the Case -+-
>
> A statement of the case in favor of the relics, as worked out by
> the finders and their co-workers, follows:
>
> "A chance discovery by Charles E. Manier and subsequent
> excavation by him and Thomas W. Bent, near Tucson, Ariz., has
> brought to light many relics that indicate an expedition of
> considerable proportion of Roman Jews in America during the
> period from 775 A.D. to 900 A.D."
>
> "The evidence unearthed appears to be the positive data for which
> scientists have been searching for many years. It is thought that
> these relics definitely establish the fact that European or other
> outside influence existed in America before the advent of
> Columbus and the Spanish conquerors. This influence was found in
> America among the Indians in their rites and ceremonials by the
> Spaniards, but until the present find no definite evidence had
> appeared to prove this theory."
>
> "The first article, a large metal cross, weighing sixty-five
> pounds, was discovered on Sept. 13, 1924, purely by accident. Mr.
> Manier and his family were returning from a trip to the historic
> Picture Rocks, just north of Tucson, Ariz., and had stopped to
> examine an old lime kiln along the road. While doing this, Mr.
> J.E. Manier noticed a peculiar object protruding from the bank to
> the north of the lime kiln. On examining the object he discovered
> it to be of metal, and firmly embedded in the bank, 5 feet 5
> inches from the top. Mr. Manier excavated the object and
> discovered that it was a large metal cross, consisting of two
> parts, that had been placed together and riveted with lead
> rivets. Between the two halves had been placed a wax
> preservative, and on the inner surface of both halves there was
> much Latin inscription. The cross was taken to the University of
> Arizona and the Latin translated by Professor Frank H. Fowler of
> the College of Letters, Arts and Sciences."
>
> -+- Objects Embedded in Strata -+-
>
> "Since the discovery of the first article in the present time
> there have been unearthed five complete crosses and one
> unfinished cross, all of which contain much Latin inscription,
> many pictures and numerous symbols of both a religious and
> historic nature. There has also been unearthed a cross with a
> crescent cross-arm, entwined with a serpent, upon which there is
> Hebrew script and many religious symbols. Another cross has a
> circle of metal, connecting the cross-arms, with a serpent
> entwined over all. This cross also contains the Hebrew script and
> several religious symbols."
>
> "The remainder of the discovery is made up of swords and spears,
> many of which are scarred as a result of having been used in
> battle. All the articles are of metal, and of a natural alloy of
> lead, silver, gold and antimony, with a trace of tin, and are all
> in a perfect state of preservation. None of the inscriptions has
> been obliterated and the war implements still retain a sharp
> straight edge, and are well balanced."
>
> "The articles have been found at about the same level, that is,
> between five and six feet below the surface, and in a well-
> cemented stratum of caliche, the caliche, or lime formation,
> being so hard that it is necessary to chop each piece out with a
> pick. There is no evidence of burial, either in recent or in
> historic times; in fact, the articles have been covered by a
> natural process of the washing down of the debris from above,
> until time has resulted in building up of from five to six feet
> of overhead."
>
> "The many scientists who have assisted in the research are
> unanimous in the opinion that the covering-over process has taken
> many hundreds of years; in fact, their conclusions tend to place
> the age of the relics at about the eighth century."
>
> "The placing of the articles in history is being done by Laura
> Coleman Ostrander, historian, of Tucson, Ariz. She has, through
> the Latin and Hebrew inscriptions and the many interesting
> symbols, woven a complete story covering the entire period of
> these peoples in America, or 'Calalus Land,' as they called it.
> It is a story that covers a period of 125 years, and is replete
> with hardships, wars and romance."
>
> -+- Fought the Toltec Indians -+-
>
> "The story commences in A.D. 775 with three people being carried
> forth over the sea to Roman Calalus, an unknown land. Here they
> found a people whom they called the Toltexus, the scientists
> agreeing that the people they found were the Toltec Indians. At
> this period Theodorus was the ruler of these European adventurers
> and was a brave fighter and a man of courage. He carried on much
> warfare with the Toltecs and after ruling for a period of
> fourteen years he was succeeded by Jacobus."
>
> "Jacobus ruled the people with a mighty hand and was also a
> constructive ruler, since he rebuilt the city of these people
> that had been razed during the latter part of the reign of
> Theodorus. Jacobus was not king long and was followed by Israel
> the First, who reigned for sixty-seven years, who, in turn, was
> followed by Israel the Second. He ruled six years. Thus the story
> continues on until the year 900 and is chronologically complete
> through the entire period of their existence in America."
>
> "The records found by Mr. Manier and Mr. Bent appear to be a last
> record of the people, written in haste at the time when the end
> was approaching. The record does not make clear just what the end
> was, but it has been concluded that these Europeans were
> exterminated by the natives, who, it appears, harassed them and
> made war upon them from the beginning to the end. This conclusion
> has been drawn, since what appears to be the last writing of the
> recorder of these ancient deeds states:"
>
> "'The last days have come and the inevitable doom,' and his last
> writing is, 'I am present. The Lord be with you.'"
>
> "To this chapter of the story is signed 'O.L.' as well as to all
> of the other parts or crosses, the 'O.L.' being not his initials,
> but rather an insignia of rank."
>
> -+- Evidence of Authenticity -+-
>
> "The investigation and excavating is only in the embryo stage,
> and is to be carried on to completion in the future; however,
> much definite information has been brought to light that
> establishes these relics as being several hundred years pre-
> Columbian."
>
> "C.J. Sarle, Ph.D., one of the eminent geologists of the
> Southwest, who has spent much time during the last year in
> investigating this find, is of the belief that the articles are
> not only genuine but are as old as the dates would indicate. He
> has established this belief through the geological facts and
> through the location at their respective depths of the numerous
> Indian cultures, the oldest being that of the Hohokums, or the
> great unknown tribe of Indians that inhabited the Southwest in
> prehistoric times. The veneer of the Hohokum culture is a
> considerable distance above the level at which these relics are
> being excavated."
>
> "Dean Byron Cummings, Curator of the State Museum, archaeologist,
> and a member of the Faculty of the University of Arizona, who has
> also investigated this problem, is convinced as to the antiquity
> of the finds and as to the articles being genuine. He establishes
> the age of the relics through the Roman script contained upon
> them, which he states has not been in common use since the eighth
> century, and through archaeological and geological evidence. In
> this he is supported by Professor Frank H. Fowler(?) who has
> translated all of the Latin inscriptions on the pieces found to
> date."
>
> "Professor Charles T. Vorhies(?), entomologist, who has also
> interested himself in this investigation and has assisted with
> the photographic record, is firm in his belief that these relics
> are not of historic times, are many hundreds years old, that
> there has been no burial of them, and there is no evidence of
> burial, but that the articles have been covered over to a depth
> of between five and six feet by a natural building-up process,
> over a long period of time."
>
> "Dean A.E. Douglass of the Steward Observatory and Vice President
> of the Historical and Archaeological Society of Arizona is firm
> in the belief of the antiquity and the genuineness of the finds.
> He has spent much time on the investigation, has taken a complete
> photographic record and has himself excavated part of the
> relics."
>
> -+- Dr. Judd Aids in Excavation -+-
>
> "Dr. Neil Judd of the Smithsonian Institution visited the
> excavation and completely excavated two of the articles himself.
> He stated that the articles were very old and that there was
> absolutely no evidence of disturbance of the earth surrounding
> them. He reached this conclusion after chopping these two pieces
> loose with a miner's pick."
>
> "All of these men have either excavated some of the finds
> themselves or have been present when relics were excavated."
>
> "The time at which the story of these crusaders relates their
> history definitely establishes the period during which they
> inhabited America, and is supported by the eighth century Latin
> script that is used in the inscriptions."
>
> "The place from which they came has been established by Laura
> Coleman Ostrander as the Roman Empire, since they call the
> unknown land Roman Calalus. They were designated by her as Roman
> Jews because of the appearance of the Hebrew script of the early
> centuries upon the religious standards, and because of the nature
> and significance of drawings and symbols appearing upon them;
> also because of the fact that the traders of the Roman Empire
> during the first Christian centuries were the Jews."
>
> "The excavation and investigation has been carried on by Messrs.
> Charles E. Manier and Thomas W. Bent, with the assistance of John
> S. Bent and the support of the University of Arizona, the Tucson
> Chamber of Commerce and the City of Tucson. All of the
> photography for publication is being done by the Irwin Studios of
> Tucson, Ariz."
>
> "This is an announcement and should not be taken as a conclusion,
> since future excavation will no doubt bring to light much more
> evidence of startling and interesting nature, and as the new
> evidence is brought to light a report of progress will be made."
>
> -+- Translation of Inscriptions -+-
>
> The inscription of a cross designated as 1.A is translated as
> follows:
>
> A.D. 900(?), Jan. 1
> We are carried forth over the sea to Calalus,
> an unknown land, to a people ruling widely
> The Toltesus, Silvanus were lead over
> Theodorus brings up his forces at the City
> Rhoda and more than seven hundred are captured
> No gold shall be taken from the city
> Theodorus, a man of great courage, rules fourteen years
> James rules six years
> With God's help nothing need be feared
> In the name of Israel
> OL
>
> -+- Death of Israel in "the War." -+-
>
> The chronology of the supposed dynasties of Calalus is translated
> as follows from another Latin inscription:
>
> From the Beginning. A.D. 790 to 900.
> Nothing but by the cross, by suffering.
> Israel died in the war.
> Pray for the soul of Israel.
> May God be with us as with our fathers.
> May the earth be light unto thee.
> Israel, defender of the faith, adds honor to ancestral honor.
> Israel reigns 67 years.
> Israel II reigns 6 years.
> Israel II started to reign when 26 years old.
> A war of extermination.
> Either to conquer or to die.
> He flourished in his ancestral honor from day to day.
> Prepare for either event but hope is not yet crushed.
> By the grace of God.
> Time having elapsed, from adversity comes
> the source and origin of our miseries, the
> last day comes and the inevitable time.
> I am present.
> The Lord be with you.
>
> -+- Chronicle is Specific -+-
>
> Another of the texts is translated as follows:
>
> Benjamin was king of the people. They came from Seine to Rome.
> The bravest of the Gauls. He came to the assistance of the
> people to lay the foundation of the city. He built a wall
> around the city to resist the enemy. Benjamin mighty in
> strength he filled the multitude with religion. He was slain
> by the Thebans. I heard this from my father five hundred years
> after, behind the mountain. In memory of his father.
>
> 860 A.D. Israel the 3rd was banished since he had liberated
> the Toltesus. He first broke the custom. The earth trembled.
> Fear overwhelmed the hearts of mortals in the third year after
> he fled.
>
> They betook themselves within the city and kept themselves
> within their walls. You shall not bury or burn a dead man in
> the city.
>
> Before the city extended a plain, hills encompassed the city.
> It is a hundred years since Jacobus was king. Jacobus was busy
> in the front line. He attended to everything, fought much in
> person and often struck down the enemy. Israel gave his
> attention to the appointment of priests. Life is to us a
> people of extensive sway.
>
> An unknown land A.D. 895. May I be able to accomplish my
> endeavors to serve the king. It is uncertain how long life
> will continue. There are many things which may be said. While
> the war was raging three thousand men were slain, the leaders
> with their chiefs were taken, nothing but peace was sought.
> God ordains all things.
> O.L.
>
> A brief inscription which bears no signature refers briefly to
> the transatlantic voyage of the Dark Age Arizonians as follows:
>
> We are carried over the sea to Roman Calalus, an unknown land.
> They came in the year 775. Theodorus ruled the people.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==========
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance�not soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
========================================================================
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