From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Seeker1) > I know that there are a lot of people (lately) which claim that they are PoS > members or something like that and I am as skeptic about this as you. I am > not even sure the PoS exists. But if you or me are contacted by, or could > possibly make contact with, somebody who claims to be a PoS member how can > you be sure that this is really true? Ask them who was present at the cutting of the Elm. I'm still waiting for the answer to this question. This event in 1188 was supposedly the most important event in the organization's history - its separation from the original Knights Templars. You would think they would have some records on such an important event. To this date, neither DM nor the Count has answered this question, but I suspect that there is a possibility that neither knows the answer because they are only peripherally involved - the Count with an adjunct neo-templar order, DM with a lower order. You could also ask them how many degrees the PoS has - does it have 5, 7, or 9? How many members? Different published accounts have given contradictory information. You could ask Sr. Giovanni the criteria for membership, since once again, whether membership is voluntary or hereditary seems to be somewhat contradictory, based on the published statutes. Most of all, you might ask Sr. Giovanni their address and phone number, since the one that appears in French records is false. Of course, a secret society would not give you that information by definition, but it's worth asking. Again, the 1956 statutes claim that the PoS is NOT a secret society, so I can't see why they SHOULDN'T be able to tell you. Most importantly, you might ask him who the current grandmaster/nautonnier is, since DM does not know who the current one is, and the Count has yet to answer that question. Ask him if the two GM's that succeeded Plantard were a Msr. Andre Barbeau and a Msr. Carl LaFleur. DM claims the Count has confirmed this information, but I've yet to see him state this so publicly. You might also ask him if he knows the whereabouts of the latter; DM would like to know. Ask him if there is currently a schism within the order and what the parameters of it are. Ask him if he also believes that the 'holy bloodline' began in the Middle East in 3500 BCE, as this is what the Count has told us. Ask him about the fleur-de-lys "seal" of the PoS. Ask him about ties to the Swiss Grand Loge Alpina, Alpha Galates, the Hieron du Val D'Or, and the Cercle Dagobert. Ask him just how many damn parchments Sauniere found, what was on them, and what he found by deciphering them. Information on this has also been contradictory. Verifiable, reasonable answers to those questions are a good place to begin. >What kind of questions > can you ask or what tests can you do to see if you have a true live PoS > member on your hands? As long as we don't know how to seperate the real > members from the fantasy members whe will never come any further. Maybe > Steve "Seeker1" Mitzach can answer these questions as his goals sometimes > seems to be to act as a kind of PoS member detector. Try and get them to give you answers that are a) verifiable b) reasonable c) not self-contradictory and d) jibe with existing accounts of the PoS. I've had mixed results with the Count, slightly better results with DM, but ultimately, neither of them seems to really be part of the "inner circle" of the European Priory since they both live here in the U.S. It occurs to me, of course, that one possible barrier to participation by European members might be the fact that they don't speak English and only speak French? (Do we have any French speakers on our list?) >This is because a uncle of me is initiated in an Italian secret > society which has some relations with the Carbonari and some other secret > societies. Donato, would you describe the goals of the Carbonari as political or revolutionary? Or are modern Carbonari lodges more ceremonial? Yours, Steve Mizrach [aka Seeker1] TechnoCulturalist, CyberAnthropologist, HyperMediac, AnthroFuturist Home Page URL: http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/seeker1/cyberanthro/newhome.html "Why? .... Why not?" -- Timothy Leary's last words ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
