-Caveat Lector- an excerpt from: The Plot to Seize the White House Jules Archer(C)1973 Hawthorne Books, Inc. New York, NY ----- Part III The Conspiracy Explodes 1 The McCormack-Dickstein Committee agreed to listen to Butler's story in a secret executive session in New York City on November 20 1934. The two cochairman of the committee were Representative John McCormack, of Massachusets, and New York Representative Samuel Dickstein, who later became a New York State Supreme Court justice. Butler's testimony, developed in two hours of questions and answers, was recorded in full. Simultaneously Paul Comly French broke the story in the Stern papers, the Philadelphia Record and the New York Post. Under the headline "$3,000,000 Bid for Fascist Army Bared," he wrote: Major General Smedley D. Butler revealed today that he has been asked by a group of wealthy New York brokers to lead a Fascist movement to set up a dictatorship in the United States. General Butler, ranking major general of the Marine Corps up to his retirement three years ago, told his story today at a secret session of the Congressional Committee on Un-American Activities. McCormack opened the hearing by first noting that General Butler had been in the Marine Corps thirty-three years and four months and had received the Congressional Medal of Honor twice, establishing his integrity and credibility as a witness. Then he invited the general to "just go ahead and tell in your own way all that you know about an attempted Fascist movement in this country." "May I preface my remarks," Butler began; "by saying, sir, that I have one interest in all of this, and that is to try to do my best to see that a democracy is maintained in this country?" "Nobody who has either read about or known about General Butler," replied McCormack promptly, "would have anything but that understanding." Butler then gave detailed testimony about everything that had happened in connection with the plot, from the first visit of MacGuire and Doyle on July 1, 1933 Some of his testimony was not released in the official record of the bearings, for reasons that will be discussed later, but was nevertheless ferreted out, copied, and made public by reporter John L. Spivak. This censored testimony is indicated by the symbol + to distinguish it from the official testimony eventually released by the McCormack-Dickstein Committee. The same was true of testimony given by reporter Paul Comly French, who followed Butler as a witness, and the same symbol (+) indicates the censored portions.* [* The reader who wishes to examine the official testimony is referred to the government report, Investigation of Nazi Propaganda Activities and Investigation of Certain Other Propaganda Activities: Public Hearings Before the Special Committee on Un-American Activities, House of Representatives, Seventy-third Congress, Second Session, at Washington, D.C., December 29, 1934. Hearings No. 73-D.C.-6, Part 1. Extracts of the censored testimony are revealed in the books A Man in His Time, by John L. Spivak, and 2000 Americans, by George Seldes.] Butler first described the attempts made by MacGuire and Doyle to persuade him to go to the American Legion convention and make a speech they had prepared for him. BUTLER: . . . they were very desirous of unseating the royal family in control of the American Legion, at the convention to be held in Chicago, and very anxious to have me take part in it. They said that they were not in sympathy with the ... present administration's treatment of the soldiers.... They said, "We represent the plain soldiers.... We want you to come there and stampede the convention in a speech and help us in our fight to dislodge the royal family." He told of MacGuire's revelation that he was the chairman of the Legion's "distinguished guest committee," on the staff of National Commander Louis Johnson, and that at MacGuire's suggestion Johnson had put Butler's name down as one of the distinguished guests to be invited to the convention. + BUTLER: [MacGuire said] that Johnson had been taken this list, presented by MacGuire, of distinguished guests, to the White House for approval; that Louis Howe, one of the secretaries of the President, had crossed my name off and said that I was not to be invited--that the President would not have it. This tale had struck Butler as peculiar, since the President bad been grateful for the general's assistance in winning Republican votes for him away from Hoover, and their relations had always been cordial and warm. BUTLER: I thought I smelled a rat, right away-that they were trying to get me mad-to get my goat. --I said nothing.... CHAIRMAN: When you say you smelled a rat, you mean you bad an idea that they were not telling the truth? BUTLER: I could not reconcile ... their desire to serve the ordinary man in the ranks, with their other aims. They did not seem to be the same. It looked to me as if they were trying to embarrass the administration in some way.... I was just fishing to see what they had in mind. So many queer people come to my house all the time and I like to feel them all out. MacGuire had told him, Butler revealed, that invitation or no invitation, he and his supporters had figured out a way for Butler to address the Legion convention. BUTLER: I said, "How is that, without being invited?" They said, "Well, you are to come as a delegate from Hawaii." I said, "I do not live in Hawaii." "Well, it does not make any difference. There is to be no delegate from one of the American Legion posts there in Honolulu, and we have arranged to have you appointed by cable, by radio, to represent them at the convention.... I said, "Yes; but I will not go in the back door." They said, "That will not be the back door. You must come. I said, "No; I will not do this." "Well," they said, "are you in sympathy with unhorsing the royal family?" I said, "Yes; because they have been selling out the common soldier in this Legion for years. These fellows have been getting political plums and jobs and cheating the enlisted man in the Army, and I am for putting them out. But I cannot do it by going in through the back door." "Well," they said, "we are going to get them out. We will arrange this." Butler described the second visit of MacGuire and Doyle a month later, at which time MacGuire had unfolded a new plan they had developed to get Butler to the speaker's platform at the Chicago convention of the Legion. BUTLER: . . . I was to get two or three hundred legionnaires from around that part of the country and bring them on a special train to Chicago with me. . . . they would sit around in the audience, be planted here and there. . . . I was to appear in the gallery. These planted fellows were to begin to cheer and start a stampede and yell for a speech. Then I was to go to the platform and make a speech. I said, "Make a speech about what?" "Oh," they said, "we have one here." . . They pulled out this speech. They said, "We will leave it here with you to read over, and you see if you can get these fellows to come." I said, "Listen. These friends of mine that I know around here, even if they wanted to go, could not afford to go. It would cost them a hundred to a hundred and fifty dollars to go out there and stay for five days and come back." They said, "Well, we will pay that." I said, "How can you pay it? You are disabled soldiers. How do you get the money to do that?" "Oh, we have friends. We will get the money." Then I began to smell a rat for fair.... To test the seriousness of their purpose and the extent of their backing, he had challenged their claim to have access to the funds they claimed to have. BUTLER: . . . they hauled out a bank deposit book and showed me, I think it was $42,000 in deposits on that occasion, and on another occasion it was $64,000.... CHAIRMAN: Do you know on what bank that was? BUTLER: I do not. They just flipped the pages over. Now, I have had some experience as a policeman in Philadelphia. I wanted to get to the bottom of this thing and not scare them off, because I felt then that they had something real. They had so much money and a limousine. Wounded soldiers do not have limousines or that kind of money. They said, "We will pay the bill. Look around and see if you cannot get two or three hundred men and we will bring them out there and we will have accommodations for them." Butler described MacGuire's third visit, without Doyle, during which the bond salesman had inquired as to his progress in rounding up soldiers to take to the convention. Pointing out to MacGuire that the speech given him urged a return by the United States to the gold standard, Butler had demanded to know what that had to do with the ostensible reasons for which he was being asked to go to Chicago. BUTLER: ... MacGuire had said, "We want to see the soldiers' bonus paid in gold. We do not want the soldier to have rubber money or paper money. We want the gold. That is the reason for this speech." Butler had then sought to get MacGuire to reveal the source of the funds on deposit in his name. BUTLER: He said that it was given to him by nine men, that the biggest contributor bad given $9,000 and that the donations ran all the way from $2,500 to $9,000. I said, "What is the object?" He said the object was to take care of the rank and file of the soldiers, to get them their bonus and get them properly cared for. Well, I knew that people who had $9,000 to give away were not in favor of the bonus. That looked fishy right away. He gave me the names of two men; Colonel Murphy, Grayson M.-P. Murphy, for whom he worked, was one. He said, "I work for him. I am in his office." I said to him, "How did you happen to be associated with that kind of people if you are for the ordinary soldier and his bonus and his proper care? You know damn well that these bankers are not going to swallow that. There is something in this, Jerry MacGuire, besides what you have told me. I can see that." He said, "Well, I am a business man. I have got a wife and family to keep, and they took good care of them, and if you would take my advice you would be a business man, too." I said, "What has Murphy got to do with this?" "Well," he said, "don't you know who he is?" I said, "Just indirectly. He is a broker in New York. But I do not know any of his connections." "Well," he said, "he is the man who underwrote the formation of the American Legion for $125,000. He underwrote it, paid for the field work of organizing it, and had not gotten all of it back yet." "That is the reason he makes the kings, is it? He has still got a club over their beads." "He is on our side, though. He wants to see the soldiers cared for." Butler revealed that he had then expressed sharply critical sentiments about the Legion. He later discovered that these remarks had been expunged from the record. + BUTLER: "Is be [Murphy] responsible, too, for making the Legion a strikebreaking outfit?" "No, no. He does not control anything in the Legion now. I said: "You know very well that it is nothing but a strikebreaking outfit used by capital for that purpose and that is the reason we have all those big clubhouses and that is the reason I pulled out from it. They have been using these dumb soldiers to break strikes." He said: "Murphy hasn't anything to do with that. He is a very fine fellow." I said, "I do not doubt that, but there is some reason for his putting $125,000 into this." In September, 1933, when he had gone to Newark for a convention of the 29th Division, Butler testified, MacGuire had unexpectedly showed up at his hotel to remind him that the time for the American Legion convention was rapidly approaching and to ask whether he was finally ready to take a contingent of veterans to Chicago. BUTLER: I said, "No; I am not going to Chicago." "Why not?" I said, "You people are bluffing. You have not got any money," whereupon he took out a big wallet, out of his hip pocket, and a great, big mass of thousand dollar bills and threw them out on the bed. I said, "What's all this?" He says, "This is for you, for expenses. You will need some money to pay them." "How much money have you got there?" He said, $18,000." "Where did you get those thousand dollar bills?" "Oh," be said, "last night some contributions were made. I just have not had a chance to deposit them, so I brought them along with me." I said, "Don't you try to give me any thousand dollar bill. Remember, I was a cop once. Every one of the numbers on these bills has been taken. I know you people and what you are trying to do. You are just trying to get me by the neck. If I try to cash one of those thousand dollar bills, you would have me by the neck." "Oh," he said, "we can change them into smaller denominations." I said, "You put that money away before somebody walks in here and sees that money around, because I do not want to be tied up with it at all. I told you distinctly I am not going to take these men to Chicago." "Well, are you going yourself?" I said, "Oh, I do not know. But I know one thing. Somebody is using you. You are a wounded man. You are a bluejacket. You have got a silver plate in your head. I looked you up.... You are being used by somebody, and I want to know the fellows who are using you. I am not going to talk to you any more. You are only an agent. I want some of the principals." He said, "Well, I will send one of them over to see you." I said, "Who?" He said, "I will send Mr. Clark." "Who is Mr. Clark?" "Well, he is one of our people. He put up some money." 'Who is he?" 'Well, his name is R. S. Clark. He is a banker. He used to be in the Army." "How old a man is be?" He told me. "Would it be possible that he was a second lieutenant in the Ninth Infantry in China during the Boxer campaign?" He said, "That is the fellow." He was known as the "millionaire lieutenant" and was sort of batty, sort of queer, did all sorts of extravagant things. He used to go exploring around China and wrote a book on it, on explorations. He was never taken seriously by anybody. But he had a lot of money. An aunt and an uncle died and left him $10,000,000. Having established contact with one of the plot's principals, Butler testified, he had been visited by Clark within the week and invited to travel in a private car to the Chicago convention with the millionaire, who revealed that he would arrange an opportunity for Butler to deliver the gold-standard speech. BUTLER: He said, "You have got the speech?" I said, "Yes. These fellows, Doyle and MacGuire, gave me the speech." I said, "They wrote a hell of a good speech, too." He said, "Did those fellows say that they wrote that speech?" I said, "Yes; they did. They told me that that was their business, writing speeches." He laughed and said, "That speech cost a lot of money." In testimony afterward censored, Butler revealed that the speech had apparently been written for the millionaire by the chief attorney for J. P. Morgan and Company, who had been the 1924 Democratic candidate for President. + BUTLER: Now either from what he said then or from what MacGuire had said, I got the impression that the speech bad been written by John W. Davis--one or the other of them told me that. Clark had been amused, Butler testified, that MacGuire and Doyle had claimed the authorship. Butler had pointed out that a speech urging a return to the gold standard did not seem to be relevant to the reasons he was being asked to go to the convention. Clark had reiterated MacGuire's explanation that he wanted to see the soldiers' bonus paid in gold-backed currency, not in inflated paper money. BUTLER: "Yes," I said, "but it looks as if it were a bigbusiness speech. There is something funny about that speech, Mr. Clark." . . . Clark said ". . . I have got $30,000,000. I do not want to lose it. I am willing to spend half of the $30,000,000 to save the other half. If you go out and make this speech in Chicago, I am certain that they will adopt the resolution and that will be one step toward the return to gold, to have the soldiers stand up for it. We can get the soldiers to go out in great bodies to stand up for it." This was the first beginning of the idea, you see, of having a soldiers' organization, getting them to go out in favor of the gold standard. Clark's thought was, "I do not want to lose my money." In a censored portion of the testimony, Butler explained why Clark thought that Roosevelt would permit himself to be pressured by such tactics. + BUTLER: He said, "You know the President is weak. He will come right along with us. He was born in this class. He was raised in this class, and he will come back. He will run true to form. In the end he will come around. But we have got to be prepared to sustain him when he does." This blatant snobbery and fatuous assumption about the President had been too much for Butler, and he had snapped a refusal to go to Chicago. BUTLER: He said, "Why not?" I said, "I do not want to be mixed up in this thing at all. I tell you very frankly, Mr. Clark, I have got one interest and that is the maintenance of a democracy. That is the only thing. I took an oath to sustain the democracy, and that is what I am going to do and nothing else. I am not going to get these soldiers marching around and stirred up over the gold standard. What the hell does a soldier know about the gold standard? You are just working them, using them, just as they have been used right along, and I am going to be one of those to see that they do not use them any more except to maintain a democracy. And then I will go out with them any time to do that." At this point, Butler testified, Clark had offered him an outright bribe to win his cooperation. BUTLER: He said, "Why do you want to be stubborn? Why do you want to be different from other people? We can take care of you. You have got a mortgage on this house," waving his hand, pointing to the house. "That can all be taken care of. It is perfectly legal, perfectly proper." "Yes," I said, "but I just do not want to do it, that's all." Finally I said, "Do you know what you are trying to do? You are trying to bribe me in my own house. You are very polite about it and I can hardly call it that, but it looks kind of funny to me, making that kind of proposition. You come out into the hall, I want to show you something." We went out there. I have all the flags and banners and medals of honor, and things of that kind. . . . They have been given me by the Chinese and the Nicaraguans and the Haitians--by the poor people. I said to him, "You come out here. Look at that and see what you are trying to do. You are trying to buy me away from my own kind. When you have made up your mind that I will not go with you, then you come on and tell me." After being left in the hall to inspect the trophies and think about their significance, Butler testified, Clark had joined him in the office at the back of the house. The millionaire had then asked permission to make a long- distance call. BUTLER: He called up Chicago and got hold of MacGuire at the Palmer House and he said to MacGuire, "General Butler is not coming to the convention. He has given me his reasons and they are excellent ones, and I apologize to him for my connection with it. I am not coming either. You can put this thing across. You have got $45,000. You can send those telegrams. You will have to do it in that way. The general is not coming. I can see why. I am going to Canada to rest. If you want me, you know where you can find me. You have got enough money to go through with it." . . . The convention came off and the gold standard was endorsed by the convention. I read about it with a great deal of interest. There was some talk about a flood of telegrams that came in and influenced them and I was so much amused, because it all happened right in my room. Then MacGuire stopped to see me on his way back from the convention. This time be came in a hired limousine ... and told me that they had been successful in putting over their move. I said, "Yes, but you did not endorse the soldier's bonus." He said, "Well, we have got to get sound currency before it is worth while to endorse the bonus." Not long afterward, Butler testified, MacGuire bad called again to ask him to go to Boston for a soldier's dinner that was being given in the general's honor. BUTLER: He said, "We will have a private car for you on the end of the train. You will make a speech at this dinner and it will be worth a thousand dollars to you." I said, "I never got a thousand dollars for making a speech." He said, "You will get it this time." "Who is going to pay for this dinner and this ride up in the private car?" "Oh, we will pay for it out of our funds." I am not going to Boston. If the soldiers of Massachusetts want to give a dinner and want me to come, I will come. But there is no thousand dollars in it." So he said, "Well, then, we will think of something else." He had next seen MacGuire, Butler testified, while in New York to make an election speech on behalf of a former Marine running for local office in a municipal campaign. MacGuire had then sought to draw Butler out on his subsequent plans. BUTLER: He said, "You are going on a trip for the Veterans of Foreign Wars. You are going around recruiting them, aren't you?" I said, "Yes; I am going to start as soon as this campaign is over." CHAIRMAN: When was this campaign? BUTLER: This was in November, 1933. All of this happened between July and November, everything I told you.... He said, "You are going out to speak for the veterans." I said, "Yes.... You know, I believe that sooner or later there is going to be a test of our democracy, a test of this democratic form of government. The soldiers are the only people in this country who have ever taken an oath to sustain it. I believe that I can appeal to them by the millions to stand up for a democracy, because they have more stake in a democracy than any other class of our citizens, because they have fought for it. I am going out to the Veterans of Foreign Wars. They are my kind, overseas people, old regulars, and see if I cannot get a half a million of those fellows and preach this to them, that we have got to stand up against war. I have got an object in doing it. I believe that sooner or later we are going to have a showdown, because I have had so many invitations to head societies and to join societies, all of them with a camouflaged patriotic intent. They are rackets, all of them." MacGuire had then exposed the forward edge of a new plan to use the general, startling Butler by a proposal to join him in his travels around the country. BUTLER: He said, "Well, that is what we are for. . . . want to go around with you ... and talk to the soldiers in the background and see if we cannot get them to join a great big superorganization to maintain the democracy. I said, I do not know about you going along, Jerry. Of course, I cannot keep you off of the train. But there is something funny about all this that you are doing and I am not going to be responsible for it and I do not want any more to do with it. You are a wounded soldier and I am not going to hurt you, but you must lay off this business with me, because there is too much money in it." "Well, I am a business man," he said. . . . "I do not see why you will not be a business man, too." I said, "If fiddling with this form of government is business, I am out of it; if that is your business." "Oh," he said, "I would not disturb this form of government." I said, "You have got some reason for getting at these soldiers other than to maintain a democracy." Although Butler did not testify to having been offered, and turning down, $750 for every speech he made to veterans' groups during his tour in which he inserted a short reference favoring the gold standard, a special tribute was paid to him on this score by a secret report he did not know of that reached the White House. It had been written by Val O'Farrell, a former New York City detective who bad become one of the city's leading criminal and civil investigators. On December 11, 1933, O'Farrell had written to presidential secretary Louis Howe: My dear Colonel: . . . . Before he [Butler] left for Atlanta, he was approached by a representative of the bankers gold group system, and offered the sum of seven hundred and fifty dollars for each speech if he would insert some short reference in favor of continuing the bankers gold standard. This would have meant an additional ten thousand dollars to General Butler, but he told the representative of the gold group that even if he were offered a hundred thousand dollars to do this, his answer would be "no." Notwithstanding the fact that I do not know General Butler, who has been occasionally subject to harsh criticism for the things he has done or failed to do, I felt it my duty to report this incident to you as it shows him to be a man of exceptional character. You can probably obtain the name of the representative of this gold group from General Butler, or if you are interested, I may be able to get it for you. Butler found himself fascinated by MacGuire, suspecting that the bond salesman might be playing some kind of shrewd con game with Clark, using his contact with Butler as a lever with which to pry money out of the alarmed millionaire. BUTLER: I began to get the idea that he was using Clark--to pull money out of Clark by frightening him about his $30,000,000--and then he was coming to me; and then he would go back and tell Clark, "I have been to see Butler, and he will go along if you will get me $5,000 more." In other words, I could see him working both ends against the middle and making a sucker out of Clark. However, if Clark wanted to get rid of his money, it was none of my business.... Now, be [MacGuire] is a very cagey individual. He always approaches everything from afar. He is really a very nice, plausible fellow. But I gather, after this association with him, that due to this wound in his head, he is a little inconsistent, a little flighty. He is being used, too, but I do not think Clark is using him. My impression is that Murphy uses him; and he uses Clark, because Clark has the money. During MacGuire's trip to Europe, Butler testified, the bond salesman had sent him a postcard from Nice in February, 1934, and a short note later from Berlin, both of the "having wonderful time" variety. Then after MacGuire's return, upon his urging to see Butler on a matter of the utmost importance, they had met in the empty restaurant of Philadelphia's Bellevue Hotel, on August 22, 1934 BUTLER: He told me all about his trip to Europe.... He said, "I went abroad to study the part that the veteran plays in the various set-ups of the governments that they have abroad. I went to Italy for two or three months and studied the position that the veterans of Italy occupy in the Fascist set-up of government, and I discovered that they are the background of Mussolini. They keep them on the pay rolls in various ways and keep them contented and happy; and they are his real backbone, the force on which he may depend, in case of trouble, to sustain him. But that set-up would not suit us at all. The soldiers of America would not like that. I then went to Germany to see what Hitler was doing, and his whole strength lies in organizations of soldiers, too. But that would not do. I looked into the Russian business. I found that the use of the soldiers over there would never appeal to our men. Then I went to France, and I found just exactly the organization we are going to have. It is an organization of supersoldiers." He gave me the French name for it, but I do not recall what it is. I never could have pronounced it, anyhow. But I do know that it is a superorganization of members of all the other soldiers' organizations of France, composed of noncommissioned officers and officers. He told me that they had about 500,000, and that each one was a leader of ten others, so that it gave them 5,000,000 votes. And he said, "Now, that is our idea here in America-to get up an organization of that kind." Investigators for the McCormack-Dickstein Committee were able to uncover a report on this French "superorganization," the Croix de Feu, that MacGuire had written about to Robert S. Clark and Clark's attorney, Albert Grant Christmas, from France on March 6, 1934: I had a very interesting talk last evening with a man who is quite well up on affairs here and he seems to be of the opinion that the Croix de Feu will be very patriotic during this crisis and will take the [wage] cuts or be the moving spirit in the veterans to accept the cuts. Therefore they will, in all probability, be in opposition to the Socialists and functionaries. The general spirit among the functionaries seems to be that the correct way to regain recovery is to spend more money and increase wages, rather than to put more people out of work and cut salaries. The Croix de Fen is getting a great number of new recruits, and I recently attended a meeting of this organization and was quite impressed with the type of men belonging. These fellows are interested only in the salvation of France, and I feel sure that the country could not be in better bands because they are not politicians, they are a cross-section of the best people of the country from all walks of life, people who gave their "all" between 1914 and 1918 that France might be saved, and I feel sure that if a crucial test ever comes to the Republic that these men will be the bulwark upon which France will be saved. During their meeting in Philadelphia, Butler testified, MacGuire had revealed the plans of his group to develop an American Croix de Fen. BUTLER: I said, "What do you want to do with it when you get it up?" "Well," he said, "we want to support the President." I said, "The President does not need the support of that kind of an organization. Since when did you become a supporter of the President? The last time I talked to you you were against him." He said, "Well, he is going to go along with us now." "Is he?" "Yes." "Well, what are you going to do with these men, suppose you get these 500,000 men in America? . . ." "Well," be said, "they will be the support of the President." I said, "The President has got the whole American people. Why does he want them?" He said, "Don't you understand the set-up has got to be changed a bit? . . . He has got to have more money. There is not any more money to give him. Eighty percent of the money now is in Government bonds, and he cannot keep this racket up much longer.... He has either got to get more money out of us or he has got to change the method of financing the Government, and we are going to see to it that be does not change that method. He will not change it." I said, "The idea of this great group of soldiers, then, is to sort of frighten him, is it?" "No, no, no; not to frighten him. This is to sustain him when others assault him." I said, "Well, I do not know about that. How would the President explain it?" He said: "He will not necessarily have to explain it, because we are going to help him out. Now, did it ever occur to you that the President is overworked? We might have an Assistant President, somebody to take the blame; and if things do not work out, he can drop him." He went on to say that it did not take any constitutional change to authorize another Cabinet official, somebody to take over the details of the office-take them off the President's shoulders. He mentioned that the position would be a secretary of general affairs--a sort of a supersecretary. CHAIRMAN: A secretary of general affairs? BUTLER: That is the term used by him--or a secretary of general welfare--I cannot recall which. I came out of the interview with that name in my head. I got that idea from talking to both of them, you see [MacGuire and Clark]. They had both talked about the same kind of relief that ought to be given the President, and be [MacGuire] said: "You know, the American people will swallow that. We have got the newspapers. We will start a campaign that the President's health is failing. Everybody can tell that by looking at him, and the dumb American people will fall for it in a second." And I could see it. They bad that sympathy racket, that they were going to have somebody take the patronage off of his shoulders and take all the worries and details off of his shoulders, and then he will be like the President of France. . . . Now, I cannot recall which one of these fellows told me about the rule of succession, about the Secretary of State becoming President when the Vice President is eliminated. There was something said in one of the conversations that I had, that the President's health was bad, and he might resign, and that [Vice President] Garner did not want it, anyhow, and then this supersecretary would take the place of the Secretary of State and in the order of succession would become President. That was the idea. In corroborative testimony Paul Comly French described what MacGuire had told him about the conspirators' plans. FRENCH: During the course of the conversation he continually discussed the need of a man on a white horse, as he called it, a dictator who would come galloping in on his white horse. He said that was the only way; either through the threat of armed force or the delegation of power, and the use of a group of organized veterans, to save the capitalistic system. He warmed up considerably after we got under way and be said, "We might go along with Roosevelt and then do with him what Mussolini did with the King of Italy." It fits in with what he told the general, that we would have a Secretary of General Affairs, and if Roosevelt played ball, swell; and if be did not, they would push him out. He expressed the belief that at least half of the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars would follow the general if he would announce such a plan. In censored testimony Butler revealed that MacGuire had implicated General Hugh Johnson, head of the N.R.A., as Roosevelt's own choice to become an assistant President. + BUTLER: He said, "That is what he [Roosevelt] was building up Hugh Johnson for. Hugh Johnson talked too damn much and got him into a hole, and he is going to fire him in the next three or four weeks." I said, "How do you know all this?" "Oh," he said, "we are in with him all the time. We know what is going to happen." After having revealed the plans of the plotters, Butler testified, MacGuire had then bluntly asked the general to be the Man on a White Horse they were looking for. BUTLER: He said, ". . . Now, about this superorganization --would you be interested in heading it?" I said, "I am interested in it, but I do not know about heading it. I am very greatly interested in it, because you know, Jerry, my interest is, my one hobby is, maintaining a democracy. If you get these 500,000 soldiers advocating anything smelling of Fascism, I am going to get 500,000 more and lick hell out of you, and we will have a real war right at home. You know that." "Oh, no. We do not want that. We want to ease up on the President." . . . "Yes; and then you will put somebody in there you can run; is that the idea? The President will go around and christen babies and dedicate bridges, and kiss children. Mr. Roosevelt will never agree to that himself." "Oh, yes; he will. He will agree to that." I said, "I do not believe he will." I said, "Don't you know that this will cost money, what you are talking about? He says, "Yes; we have got $3,000,000 to start with, on the line, and we can get $300,000,000, if we need it." "Who is going to put all this money up?" "Well," he said, "you heard Clark tell you be was willing to Put up $15,000,000 to save the other $15,000,000." Butler had then probed for particulars of the cabal's plans for organizing their projected military superorganization. BUTLER: "How are you going to care for all these men?" He said, "Well, the Government will not give them pensions, or anything of that kind, but we will give it to them. We will give privates $10 a month and destitute captains $35. We will get them, all right." "It will cost you a lot of money to do that." He said, "We will only have to do that for a year, and then everything will be all right again." . . . He said that they had this money to spend on it, and be wanted to know again if I would head it, and I said, "No, I am interested in it, but will not head it." Seeking to persuade him to change his mind, Butler testified, MacGuire had sought to impress him with the importance of the interests who were involved in the plot. BUTLER: He said, "When I. was in Paris, my headquarters were Morgan & Hodges. We had a meeting over there. I might as well tell you that our group is for you, for the head of this organization. Morgan & Hodges are against you. The Morgan interests say that you cannot be trusted, that you will be too radical, and so forth, that you are too much on the side of the little fellow; you cannot be trusted. They do not want you. But our group tells them that you are the only fellow in America who can get the soldiers together. They say, 'Yes, but be will get them together and go in the wrong way.' That is what they say if you take charge of them." According to MacGuire, Butler testified, the Morgan interests preferred other noted military figures as head of the projected veterans' army. Discussion of these choices was also eliminated from the published version of the hearings. + BUTLER: [MacGuire said,] "They are for Douglas MacArthur as the head of it. Douglas MacArthur's term expires in November, and if he is not reappointed it is to be presumed that be will be disappointed and sore and they are for getting him to head it." I said, "I do not think that you will get the soldiers to follow him, Jerry. . . . He is in bad odor, because be put on a uniform with medals to march down the street in Washington, I know the soldiers." "Well, then, we will get Hanford MacNider. They want either MacArthur or MacNider ...... I said, "MacNider won't do either. He will not get the soldiers to follow him, because he has been opposed to the bonus." "Yes, but we will have him in change [charge?]." And it is interesting to note that three weeks later after this conversation MacNider changed and turned around for the bonus. It is interesting to note that. He [MacGuire] said, "There is going to be a big quarrel over the reappointment of MacArthur . . . you watch the President reappoint him. He is going to go right and if he does not reappoint him, he is going to go left." I have been watching with a great deal of interest this quarrel over his reappointment to see how it comes out. He [MacGuire] said, "You know as well as I do that MacArthur is Stotesbury's son in law in Philadelpbia--[Stotesbury being] Morgan's representative in Philadelphia. You just see how it goes and if I am not telling the truth." I noticed that MacNider turned around for the bonus, and that there is a row over the reappointment of MacArthur. 4 Convinced by now of the seriousness of the plot, and its magnitude, Butler had endeavored to learn how far along the conspirators were in the creation of the new superorganization that would control the proposed veterans' army. MacGuire gave him some tips on recognizing its appearance. BUTLER: Now, there is one point . . . which I think is the most important of all. I said, "What are you going to call this organization?" He said, "Well, I do not know." I said, "Is there anything stirring about it yet?" "Yes," he says; "you watch; in two or three weeks you will see it come out in the paper. There will be big fellows in it. This is to be the background of it. These are to be the villagers in the opera. The papers will come out with it." He did not give me the name of it, but he said that it would all be made public; a society to maintain the Constitution, and so forth. They had a lot of talk this time about maintaining the Constitution. I said, "I do not see that the Constitution is in any danger." Butler's next observation, possibly the most significant in all his testimony, was missing from the published version of his testimony. It was the link between the conspiracy and the powerful interests Butler had good reason to believe were the "big fellows" in the background. + BUTLER: . . . and in about two weeks the American Liberty League appeared, which was just about what he described it to be. The American Liberty League, which had brokerage head Grayson M.-P. Murphy as its treasurer and Robert S. Clark as one of its financiers, also had John W. Davis, alleged writer of the gold-standard speech for Clark, as a member of the National Executive Committee. Its contributors included representatives of the Morgan, Du Pont, Rockefeller, Pew, and Mellon interests. Directors of the League included Al Smith and John J. Raskob. The League later formed affiliations with pro-Fascist, antilabor, and anti-Semitic organizations. It astonished Butler that former New York Governor Al Smith, who had lost the 1928 presidential race to Hoover as the Democratic candidate, could be involved in a Fascist plot backed by wealthy men. But the "happy warrior" who bad grown up on New York's East Side bad traded his brown derby for a black one. He was now a business associate of the powerful Du Pont family, who had cultivated him through Du Pont official John J. Raskob, former chairman of the Democratic party. Under their influence Smith had grown more and more politically conservative following his defeat. Butler's query about Smith, and MacGuire's reply, were both deleted from the official testimony of the hearings. +BUTLER: I said, "What is the idea of Al Smith in this?" "Well," he said, "Al Smith is getting ready to assault the Administration in his magazine. It will appear in a month or so. He is going to take a shot at the money question. He has definitely broken with the President." I was interested to note that about a month later he did, and the New Outlook took the shot that he told me a month before they were going to take. Let me say that this fellow [MacGuire] has been able to tell me a month or six weeks ahead of time everything that happened. That made him interesting. I wanted to see if he was going to come out right.... In testimony that was also censored, Paul Comly French revealed that MacGuire had implicated the Du Ponts to him, indicating the role they would play in equipping the superarmy being planned by the plotters. + FRENCH: We discussed the question of arms and equipment, and he suggested that they could be obtained from the Remington Arms Co., on credit through the Du Ponts. I do not think at that time he mentioned the connections of Du Pouts with the American Liberty League ... but he skirted all around the idea that that was the back door; one of the Du Ponts is on the board of directors of the American Liberty League and they own a controlling interest in the Remington Arms Co.... He said the General would not have any trouble enlisting 500,000 men. In a story it ran on November 21, 1934, The New York Times noted, "According to General Butler ... be was to assemble his 500,000 men in Washington, possibly a year from now, with the expectation that such a show of force would enable it to take over the government peacefully in a few days." During his last talk with MacGuire, Butler had once more pressured him to explain the persistent bond salesman's personal stake in the conspiracy. BUTLER: I asked him again, "Why are you in this thing?" He said, "I am a business man. I have got a wife and children." In other words, he had had a nice trip to Europe with his family, for nine months, and he said that that cost plenty, too.... So he left me, saying, "I am going down to Miami and I will get in touch with you after the convention is over, and we are going to make a fight down there for the gold standard, and we are going to organize." After he had been urged over forty times to accept the leadership of the Fascist coup d'etat being planned, while he gathered as much information about it as he could, Butler had then sought to gather corroborative evidence through reporter Paul Comly French. BUTLER: ... in talking to Paul French here--I had not said anything about this other thing, it did not make any difference about fiddling with the gold standard resolution, but this [the Fascist plot] looked to me as though it might be getting near that they were going to stir some of these soldiers up to hurt our Government. I did not know anything about this committee [the American Liberty League], so I told Paul to let his newspaper see what they could find out about the background of these fellows. Although Butler recalled having induced French to check into the case, former Philadelphia Record city editor Tom O'Neil gave the author his recollection that Butler had approached him and told him the whole story. O'Neil recalled that be had agreed to assign French to investigate. Probably Butler first approached French, who had referred him to the city editor. Butler gave the McCormack-Dickstein Committee his view that the plot might have been hatched out of a racket that MacGuire had been working as a moneymaking scheme. BUTLER: I felt that it was just a racket, that these fellows were working one another and getting money out of the rich, selling them gold bricks. I have been in 752 different towns in the United States in three years and one month, and I made 1,022 speeches. I have seen absolutely no sign of anything showing a trend for a change of our form of Government. So it has never appealed to me at all. But as long as there was a lot of money stirring around-and I bad noticed some of them with money to whom I have talked were dissatisfied and talking about having dictators--I thought that perhaps they might be tempted to put up money. Butler testified that his last encounter with MacGuire had been with reference to French's attempt to talk to him. CHAIRMAN: Did you have any further talks with him? BUTLER: No. The only other time I saw or heard from him was when I wanted Paul to uncover him. He talked to me and he telephoned Paul, saying he wanted to see him. He called me up and asked if Paul was a reputable person, and I said be was. That is the last thing I heard from him. CHAIRMAN: The last talk you had with MacGuire was in the Bellevue in August of this year? BUTLER: August 22; yes. The date can be identified. He concluded his testimony by urging the committee to question several persons about the plot in addition to MacGuire--notably Murphy, Doyle, and Legion Commander Frank N. Belgrano. This request was also stricken from the official record. Butler was aware that Chairman McCormack was himself a Legionnaire and that the revelations of the plot implicating Legion officials might be painful to him. But Butler also knew that McCormack was a determined foe of Nazi propaganda and a staunch supporter of New Deal measures. Butler counted on his indignation over the conspiracy to bring about a full-scale investigation by the Department of justice. pp.137-163 ----- Aloha, He'Ping, Om, Shalom, Salaam. Em Hotep, Peace Be, Omnia Bona Bonis, All My Relations. Adieu, Adios, Aloha. Amen. Roads End Kris DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substance�not soapboxing! 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