http://www.nasm.edu/NASMDOCS/DSH/rhpi-p2.htmlTitle: The RAND History Project, Part 2, L-ZThe RAND History Project Interviews
L-ZNovick, David. Dates: February 24 and June 20, 1988. Interviewer: Martin Collins. Auspices: RAND. Length: 3.25 hrs.; 57 pp. Use restriction: Open.
Novick (b. September 19, 1906) initially reviews his upbringing, undergraduate education in economics, partial completion of a PhD program in economics at Columbia in the 1930s, and work for the New York State Department of Taxation and the US Tariff Commission in the 1930s. He then discusses his work for the federal government from 1938 to 1948 in industrial planning and demobilization, and how he came to work for RAND as an economist in 1949. Novick next describes various aspects of his career at RAND, including establishing the cost analysis department, contributions to the strategic bomber and other studies, evolution of the cost analysis approach and its relation to systems analysis, reactions of the USAF and the military in general to cost analysis, and impressions of Frank Collbohm and others.
February 24, 1988
TAPE 1, SIDE 1
1-2 Family and educational background; instructorship and doctoral candidacy at NYU
2-4 Travels in Germany; learning German, (Sleeping Grammar); interest in Communism; Hungary, Austria; International Institute of Education, Vienna; return to Hungary, learning German; working in Hungary; interest in black market exchange
5-6 Development of academic interests: money, banking, foreign exchange; becomes a fellow of New York State Department of Taxation and Finance while working on dissertation; meeting with Frank Vanderlip, which resulted in writing part of Vanderlip's book Tomorrow's Money and consulting for brokerage houses
7-9 Meeting the economist Paul Homan, which resulted in job with Tariff Commission; testimony before House Coinage and Currency Committee; purpose and work of Tariff Commission Taussig Wiener; structure and size of Tariff Commission
9-10 Abandons idea of doctoral dissertation; decision to fight war on the economic front; develops first US Industrial Mobilization Plan; influence of Hjalmar Schacht and Otto Nathan on Novick's economic views
TAPE 1, SIDE 2
10-13 Visiting professorship at University of Puerto Rico; recruitment to RAND by Charlie Hitch; initial job interview with Frank Collbohm and John Williams; summer conference of 1949, at which Novick learned what RAND was all about; papers resulting from the conference reflecting early RAND interests: strategic bombardment and relation of economics to bombardment; Paxson
13-15 Summer conference of 1950, offensive bomber study; LeMay's reaction; Novick's interest in industrial mobilization studies, especially vulnerability of the industries; Novick's reaction to effects of H-bomb; becomes member of Program Advisory Committee of Office of Civil and Defense Mobilization
15-17 Briefs Air staff, Secretary of Defense and President inWashington on study on effects of H-bomb; reception to briefing; questions viability of bomb, delivery question subsequent work in military cost analysis; RAND's cost analysis department
June 20, 1988
TAPE 1, SIDE 1
18-19 Paxson offensive bomber study: B-52 vs. turboprop; role of LeMay; relative costs
19-21 Novick establishes RAND cost analysis department; relating analysis to cost-effectiveness
21 Air Force approach to military cost analysis
22-24 Teapot Committee; Novick's procedure for arriving at cost estimate for system; factor of liquid oxygen fuel; life cycle cost factor
24-25 Cost questions related to DEW line; Novick interests Colonel Bernard Schriever in cost questions related to bomber development
25-26 Air Force attitude toward RAND cost analysis department
26-27 Novick's definition of good cost analysis; conceptual estimating and parametric estimating RAND study of intercontinental missile trajectories
27-28 RAND analysis of Peenemùnde, von Braun experience
TAPE 1, SIDE 2
28-29 Development of parametric approach
29 Novick's participation in systems analysis work
29-30 RAND working atmosphere: role of Frank Collbohm
30-32 Development of life cycle cost concept; contribution of cost analysis to systems analysis
32-34 Novick's involvement in strategic planning and program budgeting; Air Force initial resistance to Novick's recommendations
TAPE 2, SIDE 1
34-35 Air Force dissatisfaction with Hughes Falcon project; establishment of Litton by Tex Thornton Simon Ramo and Dean Wooldridge takeover Thompson Products
35-37 Trevor Gardner's interest in development of intercontinental ballistic missile by Air Force contacts Ramo and Wooldridge, and from RAND, Kreuger and Krieger
37-41 Identification of cost elements; development of cost estimating relationship; example of ICBM; electronic devices; comparison of existing technologies with unproven concepts
41-44 Use of cost estimates in military decision making; Air Force attitudes towards Novick's cost; estimates and procedures
44 Changes in time over relative magnitude of cost elements in an estimate
TAPE 2, SIDE 2
44-45 Nonquantifiable elements in cost analysis
45-46 Connection between cost analysis division and universities
46-48 Novick's staffing procedures; role of consultants; assignment of research
48-50 Novick's approach to working with Air Force to determine their needs; Air Force requests for short-term problems
50 Relationship between cost analysis division and social science, mathematics
50-52 Albert Wohlstetter contribution to basing study; role of Charles Hitch
52-53 Role of cost analysis division in systems analysis; in developing methodologies
54-55 RAND work with Harvard Business School, statistical training course for Air Force
55-57 Peck-Scherer study on weapons acquisition; Harvard makes job offer to Novick
Palmatier, Malcolm. Date: July 28, 1986. Interviewers: Martin Collins and Joseph Tatarewicz. Auspices: RAND. Length: 3 hrs.; 50 pp. Use restriction: Open.
After reviewing his upbringing, undergraduate education in math and physics, lengthy hospitalization while in the US Navy during World War II, post-war graduate education in English at UCLA, and teaching English at UCLA and Claremont thereafter, Palmatier discusses his work in the late 1940s as a science editor at the Naval Ordnance Test Center in Pasadena and work in the early 1950s as a technical editor at North American's Propulsion Center. He then describes the background of his move to RAND in 1955 as an editor, establishment of the Reports Department and its responsibilities and procedures, move to the Economics Department as an assistant for publications in 1965, obtaining an M.A. in economics, and move to the new Publications Department in 1972. Palmatier next reviews RAND's involvement in space studies beginning in the 1950s and gives his impressions of RAND's evolution during his tenure there.
TAPE 1, SIDE 1
Family Background - Early life in Kalamazoo, Michigan
1-2 Father's influence
2 Relationship with brother
2-3 Childhood interest in reading
3-4 Mother's influence
4 Midwest perception of education College Years
5-6 Literature as a secondary interest
6 Discussion of major and minor subjects; physical and mathematics
6-7 Involvement in the Navy Midshipmen Program
7-8 Officer training in radar
8-9 Rheumatic fever; recovery in North Corona Country Club
9 Discharge from the Navy, 1945
9-10 Parents feelings concerning the illness
10 Graduate School at UCLA in the English Department
11 Heart attack while teaching freshman English
11-12 Doctoral exams at UCLA; teaching at Claremont and Pomona Work at Naval Test Station in Pasadena
12 Application for work as an editor in science
12-13 Reasons for choosing a path using both mathematics and literature
13 Early training as an editor at China Lake
TAPE 1, SIDE 2
13-14 Description of Navy's elaborate publication system
14-15 Periodical work in the print shop at Inyokern
15 Duties as editor; conditions at the print shop
16 Work with Ted McCallister; Job at North American's Propulsion Center
16 New position as editor at the Propulsion Center
16-1 Working conditions and fellow employees' dissatisfaction with working conditions
18-19 Discussion of personal relationships and family life
19-20 Book of standards known as the Palmatier Report; leavingRocketdyne Years at RAND
20-21 Joining the RAND Corporation, 1955
21-22 Awareness of aircraft industry developments in Southern California
22-23 Description of organizational relationships within RAND
24-26 Duties as editor; establishing the Reports Department
26 Description of document depository process
TAPE 2, SIDE 1
26-27 Group of libraries in possession of RAND documents
27-28 Reports Department responsibilities
28-29 Communication style - D series
29-30 Explanation of duties in the aircraft division
30-31 Creative participation in RAND projects
31-32 Assignments outside of RAND
32-33 M.A. degree in economics at USC
33-35 Work in the economics division, 1965-72; editor-to-staff transition at RAND
35 New position as staff member, 1972
35-37 Analysation of RAND's peer review system
37-38 RAND's matrix system organizational style
TAPE 2, SIDE 2
38-39 Beginnings of space studies and efforts at RAND during the mid-1950s; work with Hans Lieske, Al Lang, and Bob Buchheim
39 Joe Krieger's prediction of Sputnik
40-41 House Subcommittee on Astronautics and Space exploration's request to RAND for a Space Handbook
41-42 RAND's interest in and push for the idea of space activity
42-43 RAND's participation in NASA and NACA studies
43-46 Palmatier's personal perception of RAND's evolution; organizational changes since 1955
46-47 Reasons for RAND's maintenance of a low profile
47-48 Relationship with contracting agencies
48-49 Criticism of RAND from the academic community
49-50 Political pressures from DOD; closing comments
Plessett, Ernst. Date: February 9, 1988. Interviewers: Martin Collins and Joseph Tatarewicz. Auspices: RAND. Length: 1.75 hrs.; 29 pp. Use restriction: Open.
Plessett first describes his work as a physicist at Douglas and his transfer to the RAND project in 1946/7. He then discusses his role as head of the Physics Department after David Griggs left RAND, working with Edward Teller and others on such projects as the H-bomb study, work of the physics department for the AEC labs, tension between RAND and the USAF, the relationship between the Physics Department and other departments, and his reasons for leaving RAND in the mid-1950s.
TAPE 1, SIDE 1
1-2 Employment at Douglas in electronics and test laboratories; Jimmy Lipp, Donald Douglas, Jr.
2 Plessett's transfer to RAND (Richard Goldstein, Dave Griggs); start-up of RAND (Arnold, von Karman); RAND push towards operations analysis (Frank Collbohm, John Williams, Edward Paxson)
3 Plessett's experience as physicist for Douglas (Goldstein)
3-4 Plessett's initial impressions, activities as physicist at RAND (Ridenouer, Dave Griggs, Sam Cohen); relations with Air Force, with Atomic Energy Commission
4-7 Contracts with laboratories at Los Alamos and Livermore; study of effects of hydrogen bomb (Charlie Hitch); briefings on study by Plessett and Edward Teller; Plessett's impressions of Collbohm; dissemination of knowledge about atomic bomb technology
7 Plessett's role as head of RAND physics division: in recruiting; impressions of Hermann Kahn, Collbohm
8 Attitude of RAND physicists toward RAND; relations between Plessett and board of trustees (Robert Bacher, Phil Morris)
8-10 Interest in interdisciplinary studies (John Williams); role of physics division (Hermann Kahn, Albert Wohlstetter, Al Latter); role in briefings
10-11 H-bomb briefings, anecdotes about Teller
11-13 Relations between RAND physics division and university scientists; position of physics division with RAND; contract with AEC; contracts with Livermore and Los Alamos; studies of nuclear-powered aircraft, nuclear materials shielding
TAPE 1, SIDE 2
13 RAND management meetings
14-15 Plessett's role on Technology Capabilities Panel (Marshall Holloway, Din Land, Bernard Brodie, Killian and Alan Dulles)
15-16 RAND satellite studies; Project Feedback
16-17 Bruno Augenstein, role in ICBM concept
17-20 Plessett's impression of miscommunication between RAND and Air Force, Air Force dissatisfaction, RAND patience with, arrogance towards Air Force
20-21 Air Force understanding of RAND systems analysis (Ed Paxson, Jimmy Lipp)
21-22 Recollections of Collbohm, Bernard Brodie; trustees attitude toward Collbohm
22-23 Recollections of Dick Goldstein, Larry Henderson, John von Neumann
23 Relations between physics and other RAND divisions, socializing among staff
23-24 Plessett's response to short-term requests from Air Force
24-25 Communication of RAND research, publication and internal dissemination, briefings
25-26 Autonomy of physics division, Plessett's reasons for leaving RAND
27 Value of RAND contribution in expertise, difficulty of work
TAPE 2, SIDE 1
27-29 RAND introduction to Air Force of concept of formal problem resolution; RAND studies of implications of technological change; issue of RAND isolation from industry; value of RAND assistance to Air Force
Quade, Edward. Date: February 18, 1988. Interviewer: Martin Collins. Auspices: RAND. Length: 3.5 hrs.; 46 pp. Use restriction: Open.
After briefly describing his upbringing, graduate education in mathematics, and US Navy service in World War II as an instructor, Quade (b. June 28, 1908) discusses his recruitment by Roger Snow and Hallet Germond to the Aircraft Division of RAND in early 1948. Quade then reviews his work on the initial and follow-up strategic bomber studies, transfer thereafter to the Mathematics Division, and retirement from RAND in 1973. He also describes in detail the development of systems analysis, its use in various military and civilian projects, and the USAF's understanding and utilization of the concept.
TAPE 1, SIDE 1
1-3 Family and early education; undergraduate studies at university of Florida; graduate studies at Brown in mathematics; teaching experiences at Florida
4-5 WWII Navy service; teaching navigation, antisubmarine training
5-7 Returns to University of Florida after WWII. Consults for SLA Marshall on guided missiles project using LORAN
6-8 First contact with RAND: Hallet Germond
8-9 Begins work at RAND: Ed Paxson, Gene Root, Systems analysis to plan design of next strategic bomber; question of turret gunners
TAPE 1, SIDE 2
9-13 Strategic bomber study (cont'd from Side 1). Summer consultants; John Von Neumann, Sam Wilkes. Ed Paxson; Quade's insight into meaning of systems analysis
13-17 Follow-on study to Paxson's strategic bomber study, multiple-strike rather than single-strike; Comparison between these studies and Wohlstetter study Air Force response to Paxson's studies, and RAND briefings of Air Force
17 Summer consultants
17-18 Quade transfer from aircraft to mathematics division; Gene Root, John Williams
TAPE 2, SIDE 1
18-20 Comparison of RAND aircraft and mathematics divisions Mathematics division's and William's response to systems analysis
20-22 Quade's own views of systems analysis. Organization of lectures for Air Force on systems analysis in 1955
22-24 Quade's book, Analysis for Military Decisions, definitions of systems analysis
24-26 Geller systems analysis study for Dutch government of responses to flooding of Oosterscheide
26 Other examples of systems analysis projects: New York City Blood Bank, New York City fire project, IASA energy study
26-27 Quade's retirement from RAND and subsequent consultant ships. Work for IASA: proposed handbook on systems analysis
TAPE 2, SIDE 2
27-28 Handbook on system analysis (cont'd). Catherine Archibald paperon ethics and systems analysis
29 Comparison of Geller study to Paxson and Wohlstetter studies
29-30 Source of term "systems analysis"; Pierre Massé. Failure to apply systems analysis in Paxson study
30-31 Wohlstetter study approach to systems analysis
31-33 Meaning of systems analysis as methodology Optimizing vs. satisfying approaches
33 Wohlstetter study
34-35 RAND interest in game theory, relationship to systems analysis. Air Force understanding of systems analysis
35-36 Overall scope of Quade's involvement in RAND systems analyses. Lectures to Air Force on systems analysis
TAPE 3, SIDE 1
36-37 Quade's RAND records
37-39 Interdisciplinary elements of systems analysis Contributions of economists, political scientists, social scientists
39-40 Cost issues in systems analysis
40-41 Impact of computer on systems analysis
41-42 Role of synthesis in systems analysis
42 Math department consultancies, impact of Mansfield amendment on math department
42-44 Quade's sense of his personal research interests
44-46 Revolution of RAND systems analysis. Introduction of term policy analysis
Raymond, Arthur. Dates: July 25 and 28, 1986; January 9 and July 25, 1987. Interviewer: Martin Collins. Auspices: RAND. Length: 6 hrs.; 84 pp. Use restriction: Open (2); Permission required to quote, cite or reproduce (2).
Raymond initially describes his engineering and administrative responsibilities at Douglas Aircraft during World War II and thereafter until his retirement in 1960, as well as his involvement with various NACA committees in the mid-1950s. He then discusses his relations with Frank Collbohm, General Arnold, Ed Bowles and others; the origins of the RAND Project and why Douglas Aircraft was receptive to assuming it; his minimal contacts with RAND prior to his retirement from Douglas Aircraft; and the critical role Frank Collbohm played in developing RAND. Raymond also describes his post-retirement career as a consultant to RAND, Aerospace Corporation, and James Webb at NASA.
July 25, 1986
TAPE 1, SIDE 1
1-2 Connections with Frank Collbohm during latter years of World War II; associations with Hap Arnold and Ed Bowles
2-3 Position as vice president of Douglas Aircraft; administrative duties
4 Reasons why Douglas was amenable to RAND; a look at the broad context of issues
4-5 Frank Collbohm's contribution to the building of RAND as an organization
5 Relationship between RAND and the Air Force
5-6 Congress' perception of the Federal Contract Research Centers
6 Raymond's relationship with RAND Corporation; minimal contact until 1960
6-7 Description of the transition from engineering to administrative work
8 Skills used as an administrator
8-10 Decision to produce the DC-8: the process
10-11 Consideration of missile technology and the effect of the possible uses of nuclear energy
TAPE 1, SIDE 2
11-12 Participation as a member of NACA committees
12 Perception of the NACA's value and abilities
12-13 Comments concerning philosophical changes during the post-war period
13-14 Types of problems dealt with by the NACA committees
14-15 Tenure at Douglas; reasons for retirement
15-16 Developing new and varied interests during the late 1950s
16-17 Evaluation of personal strengths developed at Douglas
17-18 Post retirement; career as a consultant to RAND, Aerospace and James Webb
18 Contribution as member of Board of Directors
19-20 More detailed look at consultation work with Frank Collbohm
TAPE 2, SIDE 1
20-21 Decreasing workload at Rand
21-22 Perception of how FCRCs might limit RAND
22 Involvement at RAC
22-24 Relationship with Mervyn Kelly; eventual work as a consultant to Mr. Webb
24 Description of what Mr. Webb was looking for in a consultant
25 Mr. Webb's use of Dr. Raymond as a "sounding board"
25-26 Maintaining a balance between in-house work and contracting
26 Discussions with Ros Gilpatric
26-27 Question of McDonnell Douglas merger
27-28 Building in-house research capabilities
28-29 Industry's perception of Raymond's role as intermediary for Mr. Webb
29-30 Personal feelings about the space program
TAPE 2, SIDE 2
30-31 How Raymond reviewed the management issues while consulting Mr. Webb
31-32 Aerospace industry's concern over NASA's ability to provide R & D leadership
32-33 Benefits of the space program - a personal perspective
33-36 How to build up research capabilities adequate to the needs of massive production activity
36-37 NASA's role; what should be the level of research and development
37-38 How time as Mr. Webb's consultant complemented previous experiences
July 28, 1986
TAPE 1, SIDE 1
39-40 Discussion of Mr. Webb's management philosophy
40-41 Points of analogy between Douglas and NASA, organizationally
41-42 Importance of informal lines of information
42-43 Position as "eyes and ears" of NASA; relationship with the various facilities
43-44 Maj. Klein as a roving consultant for Douglas
44 Comment on the Webb philosophy; evaluation of people
44-46 OART at NASA; the level of importance
46-47 Discussions concerning Raymond's relationship with Ros Gilpatric
47-49 Organizational comparison between NASA and DOD
49-51 Webb reorganizations in 1961-62
TAPE 1, SIDE 2
51-51 Comparison between Marshall and JPL
52-53 Discussion of Rogers Commission Report
53-55 Challenger Report; its effect upon NASA's future
55-56 Flow of information and the Apollo fire
January 9, 1987
TAPE 2, SIDE 1
57 Relationship between Douglas and the Air Force prior to RAND's inception
57-59 Service as a consultant to the War Department Douglas' decision to build up the guided missiles program
59-60 Raymond's assessment of the post-war engineering future for Douglas
60-61 Doug's understanding of Edward Bowles' philosophy
61-62 Raymond's role as a consultant; working on the relationship between RAND and industry
62 Representatives of North American, Boeing, and Northrop assigned to Project RAND
62-63 Bowles' criticism of RAND reports
July 25, 1987
TAPE 1, SIDE 1
64-65 Participation in a bombing study with Frank Collbohm, Ed Wells and Edward Bowles
65 Discussion of the development of RAND in relation to the Douglas project
65-66 Discussion of Frank Collbohm responsibilities at the Pentagon; association with Vannevar Bush and Warren Weaver
66 Collbohm's responsibilities at Douglas prior to appointment as technical assistant
66-67 Description of research department activities
67-68 Raymond's responsibilities as vice president at Douglas during World War II
68-69 Contacts at the Santa Monica plant: Ed Burton and Schuyler Kleinhans
69-70 Discussion of engineering divisions at Douglas during the 1950's
70-71 Frank Collbohm's role as technical assistant; importance of Goldstein as his assistant
71-74 Responsibilities of the research department under Dick Goldstein
TAPE 1, SIDE 2
74-76 Early relationship with Gene Root and Jimmy Lipp; discussion of how they came to RAND
76-78 Involvement of Douglas and other companies in evaluative studies
78-79 Early contacts with Vannevar Bush; Raymond's thoughts regarding the future relationship between military and industry
79-80 Bowles and Hap Arnold as architects of the RAND concept
80-81 Collbohm's efforts in establishing RAND
81-82 Further discussion of the 1944 bombing study; activities of Carlos Wood and Ed Heinemann
82-83 Contacts with the university community; activities in connection with CALTECH and MIT
83 Discussion of Bowles' idea to put RAND into a university setting
83-84 Appointment of Collbohm as head of RAND
Rumph, Ben. Date: July 23 and July 31, 1987. Interviewers: Martin Collins and Joseph Tatarewicz. Auspices: RAND. Length: 4.75 hrs.; 61 pp. Use restriction: Permission required for access.
After reviewing his upbringing, undergraduate education in aeronautical engineering, graduate education in aerodynamics, and work on various aerodynamic projects for Curtiss-Wright from 1940 to 1949, Rumph (b. 1912) describes how he was recruited by Gene Root to the Aircraft Department of RAND in 1949 and his initial impressions of RAND. He then discusses working on the refueling project, the interdisciplinary approach on projects, participating on the management committee, interaction between the social scientists and other scientists, and personnel evaluation and management policies.
July 23, 1987
TAPE 1, SIDE 1
1-2 Early education and family background
2 Decision to study aeronautical engineering in high school
2-3 CALTECH PhD program
4 Master's thesis at Georgia Tech
4-5 Instructors at CALTECH: Clark Millikan, Theodore von Karman, Maj Kline, Arthur Raymond and Bill Sears
6-7 Considers theoretical aspects of aerodynamics
7 Roommate Homer Joe Stewart
8 Classmates at CALTECH: Bob Schairer, George Mellinger, Frank Malina
9-11 Runs CALTECH wind tunnel; companies that utilized wind tunnel: Douglas Santa Monica and El Segundo, Vultee, Consolidated, Boeing and Curtiss St Louis
TAPE 1, SIDE 2
12-14 Rumph becomes chief of aerodynamics department at Curtiss; work with Air Force experimental tailless airplane
14-15 Downfall of tailless airplane; discussion of Major Glen W. Edwards
15-17 Rumph's work at three Curtiss locations; phasing out of Curtiss aircraft business
17-19 Managerial responsibilities at Curtiss; Spruce Goose; Curtiss' wooden airplane
19-21 Departments that came under the auspices of the chief engineer; interaction with design group; minimal interaction between the aerodynamics departments in the various plants
21-23 Leaving Curtiss; Rumph interviews with Ken Ebel of Canada Air and Gene Root of RAND; Rumph reads some RAND reports
TAPE 2, SIDE 1
23 More discussion of RAND reports; Gene Roots presents RAND concept to Rumph
23-26 RAND concept as proposed by General Hap Arnold; Arnold's presentation to Donald Douglas Sr.
26-27 Two novel elements convince Rumph to join RAND in 1949
27-29 Discussion of RAND's 1950 organization chart; RAND dubbed "Think Tank" by The Wall Street Journal; engineers' difficulty in adjusting to not building anything
29 Rumph works on generalized aircraft studies with Bob Schairer and Schamburg
30-33 Gene Root; assignment to develop an aviation data book for Secretary of Defense James Forrestal; uses proprietary information from competing aircraft companies; RAND builds trust with industry
TAPE 2, SIDE 2
34-36 Strategic Air Command (SAC) study; Rumph project leader with Steven Enke; John Williams promotes maximum communication between different disciplines which led to RAND's solution of the SAC study
37-39 Further discussion of early generalized studies; little value to industry, more value to Air Force; state of the art studies: air refueling
39 Closing comments
July 31, 1987
TAPE 1, SIDE 1
40-41 Rumph discusses the Enke-Rumph study and the studies it initiated
41 RAND responsible for growth of think tanks in the US
42 Move towards more influence on RAND studies by economics and policy people
43-44 RAND not a place for traditional engineers; traditional engineers encouraged to look into industry
44 Impact on RAND of initial corps of technical people and engineers; Cullen Crane
45-46 Day to day direction of RAND run by Management Committee; policy communicated to staff by weekly staff meetings
46 Each researcher had input into the goals of RAND; RAND described as "organized chaos" by Dave Novick
46-48 Frank Collbohm's idea of what RAND should and should not be
47-48 Engineers dominated early RAND makeup; John Williams; Charlie Hitch
TAPE 1, SIDE 2
48-49 Daniel Ellsberg, a leader in interdisciplinary generalized project work
49-51 Two models of interdisciplinary work: the key individual and the large team project; evaluation process for proposed projects
51-52 Project leaders: Daniel Ellsberg, Harry Rowan, Ed Barlow and Ed Paxson
52-54 Rumph discusses the process for turning ideas into projects; matrix management; obtaining project assistance
54-55 Preference of political scientists to be advisors rather than project leaders; John Williams strong interest in interdisciplinary work
55-56 Interaction between hard and soft scientists through 1956
TAPE 2, SIDE 1
56-58 RAND's promotion and salary system; merit evaluation based on publication, interdisciplinary projects and briefmanship
58-60 Rumph's activities as division head; Bill Graham; Bob Buckheim; The Space Handbook
60-61 Engineering department comprised of physical scientists as well as engineers; Harry Vestine; Dick and Al Laetter
61 Closing comments
Salter, Robert. Dates: July 29, 1986; July 7, 1987. Interviewers: Martin Collins (1) and Joseph Tatarewicz (2). Auspices: RAND. Length: 4.5 hrs.; 69 pp. Use restriction: Not established.
Salter (b. 1920) initially reviews his upbringing; work on power plant designs, ramjets, and missiles as a commissioned officer in the Bureau of Aeronautics in World War II; and career as an engineer at North American from 1946 to 1948, including being the liaison officer at RAND during 1947. He then describes his tenure and responsibilities as head of the Aerothermodynamics Department at RAND from 1948 to 1954, including contributions to the early USAF satellite studies. Salter next discusses his move to Lockheed in 1954 and work there developing its satellite program.
July 29, 1986
TAPE 1, SIDE 1
1-2 Family background
2 Interest in rockets and space as a child
2-3 Summer internship at General Motors
3 Involvement with Kettering missile project, also known as the Bug Project
3-5 Leaving General Motors to join the Navy; commissioned as an officer and appointed to the aviation branch; division officer over 720 men
5-6 How Salter received orders to work at the Naval laboratory; transfer to the power plant design branch, a special section of the Bureau of Aeronautics; working with Bill Bollay, Al Coles and Ed Redding; living at Bollay's house for two years
6-7 Description of duties at the experimental test station
7-8 Various roles at the Bureau
8-9 Studying ramjets and missiles (1945); the idea of a variable spike diffuser
9 Monitoring V-2 rocket development
10-11 Bill Bollay; setting up the Aerophysics Lab for North American
11 Development of aerothermodynamic tables; the Patell Report; members of the aerodynamics group: Alan Pocket, Wally Hayes, and Tsien
12-13 Available career choices at the end of World War II
13 Involvement in various programs; a propulsion aerodynamic specialist for the MX-770 project
TAPE 1, SIDE 2
13-14 Early missile projects - roots in the Johns Hopkins-APL programs
14 Description of standard missile program
14-15 The formation of RAND, 1946-47; the joint venture of North American, Boeing, Northrop and Douglas
16 Salter as first North American representative at RAND
16-17 Computing lofts; Francis and Milton Klauser
17-18 Navy and Air Force satellite studies
18 Involvement in the nuclear rocket ramjet study for the AEC
18-19 The shift from private to public supported R&D
19-21 Problems during the McNamara era; the transition to microelectronics and its implications; combining the SkunkWorks approach with a certain philosophy in order to get things done
21-22 Recent state of satellites; TIDRAS as an example
22-23 Further explanation of the AEC contract and the relationship with North American
23-24 The first computerized study at RAND; three projects as a representative to RAND for North American
24-25 Elaboration on ramjet and missile studies; development of weapons systems
25 Miscellaneous topics
26 End of interview
January 7, 1987
TAPE 1, SIDE 1
27-28 Earliest recollection of the RAND project; discussion of the computing loft
28-29 Meeting of the Research and Development Corps meeting; Frances Klauser's group report
29 RAND's evolution from a Douglas computing group; working relationship with Meyer (Mike) Fishbein
30-31 Responsibilities at North American; additional duties at RAND; description of RAND's inception as a joint venture between four aircraft companies
31-32 Appointment as representative of North American by Dr. Bollay
32-33 Assignment at RAND to the deputy head of the Physics department
33 Making proposals and contracts with the AEC and the Air Force
3-34 Milt Klauser's involvement in parametric studies
34 Project RAND in 1947; organization of the NEPA program
34-35 Pioneering computer work at RAND
35-38 Various departments within RAND during the late 1940s; description of key projects
TAPE 1, SIDE 2
38 Aircraft companies primary objective in setting up project RAND
38-39 RAND's decision to become a non-profit corporation studies resulting in a diversity of designs
39-40 Leadership in the RAND mathematics department John Williams and George Brown
40-41 Louis Ridenour and work on the International Telemeter project, 1952
41-42 Administrative duties as North American representative to RAND
43 Transition to RAND as primary employer; initial nucleus of RAND; aeronautical engineers such as Raymond and Collbohm
43-44 Return to North American, 1948
44 Rejoining RAND; heading up the Aerothermodynamics group
45-46 RAND as program manager for early Air Force satellites studies such as the Mass Reconnaissance System
46 Preliminary Design Group's invention of the dumbbell configuration type of guidance stabilization
47 Discussion of early classified reports - R2-17 and R2-62; advances made in video recording and videotape
TAPE 2, SIDE 1
47-49 Satellite photography; value for reconnaissance purposes
49-50 Proposal from Lockheed-conventional reconnaissance and communication surveillance; Systems Engineering and Technical Development-function as a prime contractor
50-51 Air Force space program headed by Navy Captain Bob Truas
51-52 Description of phases in the procurement process
52-53 Salter's move from RAND to Lockheed; building up the satellite program at Lockheed-contributions made by Ernie Krause and his group
53-54 Organizational changes at Lockheed resulting from the work of Krause and Salter
54 Lockheed's value as a participant in the space program
54-56 Decision to leave RAND for Lockheed, 1954
56 Further discussion of the missiles division at RAND in 1948
57 Ed Paxson leader of the aircraft bombing studies; Salter as program manager for satellites
57-58 Industry's reluctance to participate in military research
58 Transition to Lockheed in 1954; logistics instrumentation, and procurement
58-59 Parametric second source IBM study completed in 1955 the Pied Piper program concept
TAPE 2, SIDE 2
59-60 Further discussion of parametric second source, IBM study competed in 1955
60-62 Parametric the Pied Piper space concept development
62 Specifications of parameters for the second source ICBM problem
62-63 Discussion of missiles designs-variations among contractors
63-64 Problems with cost and equipment estimates
64-65 Move to Sunnyvale in 1958; part time consultant to Lockheed
65-67 Further discussion of the first proposal for the Pied Piper Program
67-68 Inertial guidance work at Autonetics; Stark Draper's independent yet parallel work at MIT
68-69 Anticipation of reconnaissances proposal at Lockheed
69 Closing comments
Schriever, Bernard. Dates: May 18 and September 5, 1990. Interviewer: Martin Collins. Auspices: RAND. Length: 3 hrs.; 38 pp. Use restriction: Open.
Schriever initially describes his pre-war military service and studies in engineering, General Arnold's interest in maintaining a close relationship between the military and scientific community, his assignment to the Scientific Liaison Office from late 1945 to 1949, the establishment of various post-war scientific advisory boards, and the relationship of these boards and RAND to the Scientific Liaison Office. He then discusses the creation of the Office of the Assistant for Development Planning in 1950 under DCS/Development, its mission to evaluate new weapons systems technologies for the period five to ten years in the future, the use of Development Planning Objectives (DPOs) in fulfilling this mission, some of the DPOs formulated while he headed the Office of the Assistant for Development Planning from 1950 to 1954, the controversies they produced, and the input of RAND and others into DPOs.
May 18, 1990
TAPE 1, SIDE 1
1-3 Schriever's assignment to Pentagon after Second World War; reminiscence of General Hap Arnold and his views on the impact of technological development on the military; Schriever's background in engineering; Arnold's establishment of Air Force Scientific Liaison Office; Arnold's appointment of Theodore von Karman as his scientific advisor before Second World War
3-5 Arnold's establishment of Project RAND; definition of RAND mission and relationship with the Air Force
5-7 Relationship between RAND and Scientific Liaison Office; reminiscences of Gene Root, Larry Henderson
5-6 Establishment of assistant for development and planning
5-7 RAND studies on strategic bombing, nuclear weapons delivery from aircraft
8-9 Establishment of Scientific Advisory Board, Joint Research and Development Board, and their relationship with Scientific Liaison Office; development of Arnold Engineering Development Center; development of Edwards Air Force Flight Test Center
TAPE 1, SIDE 2
9-11 Continued discussion of Scientific Liaison Office contacts with scientific community, Scientific Advisory Board, RAND, and Joint Research and Development Board; reminiscence of von Karman; vision of Hap Arnold
11-12 Difference between RAND and Scientific Advisory Board relationships with Air Force; creation of Division Advisory Groups (DAG)
12-14 Arnold's vision of what the Air Force needs were in scientific and technological capability in postwar period; prewar production of aircraft; role of Air Materiel Command; creation of Arnold Engineering Development Center and Air Research and Development Command; objections within Air Force to increased technological base
14-15 Role of SAB in influencing development of increased Air Force attention to technological development (Arnold, Carl Spaatz, Vandenberg); creation of Air Force Systems Command
15-18 RAND role in operational analysis; Air Force Systems Command staff training in science and perspective on operations analysis
September 5, 1990
TAPE 1, SIDE 1
19-20 View of Schriever, General Don Putt and others that Air Force should place more emphasis on long-range planning; creation of Air Force assistant for evaluation in 1950 and its role in long-term technological planning (Ivan Getting and General Gordon Saville)
20-22 Staff and function of Office of Development Planning under Schriever; role of General Nate Twining; Schriever's discussion with Frank Collbohm concerning interface of RAND and Office of Development Planning; creation of RAND office in Pentagon headed by Gene Root; Office of Development Planning research budget
22-23 Establishment of development planning objectives; role of Development Planning Office in identifying technologies
23-25 Debate over strategic bombing technological directions
24 Studies of thermonuclear weapon initiated by Development Planning Office: study through Scientific Advisory Board (John von Neumann, Edward Teller, Herb York, Bradbury)
25-26 Role of Development Planning Office in analyzing strategic threat; access to intelligence information; relationship with RAND in threat analysis
26-27 Resolution within Air Force of disagreements concerning development planning objectives; role of Air Council chief of staff; debate over in-flight refueling
28-29 Analytical work performed for Development Planning Office by RAND, Cornell Labs and companies
29 Schreiver's criticism of POM document, lack of contemporary military planning
TAPE 1, SIDE 2
29-30 Alternative technologies for SDI weapon; complexities of electronic technology development
30-31 Institutionalization of science and technology as important aspect of Air Force planning (Hap Arnold, von Karman, Spaatz, Vandenberg, Nate Twining); criticism of micromanagement approach instituted under McNamara
31-34 Impact of Joint Research and Development Board, on Air Force relationship with scientific community (Compton brothers, Merv Kelly); Project Charles; ICBM vs. IRBM debate
33-34 Disinclination of military to get into war
35-36 Use of intelligence information by RAND and university researchers; Project West Wing analysis of technical intelligence about the Soviet Union; Schriever's opinion of operational commanders' current access to intelligence
36 Interface between RAND and Air Force operational commands
37-38 RAND system of reporting to Air Force, and Scientific AdvisoryBoard input to Air Force
Shubert, Gustave. Dates: July 29, 1986; August 10, 1988. Interviewers: Martin Collins (1) and Joseph Tatarewicz (2). Auspices: RAND. Length: 7.25 hrs.; 52 pp. Use restriction: Not established.
After reviewing his upbringing, undergraduate education in the social sciences at Yale in the late 1940s, and graduate assistantship in sociology at NYU in 1950 and 1951, Shubert (b. 1929) discusses his service in the USAF from 1951 to 1955. He then describes his subsequent work in several administrative positions at Lincoln Lab until his departure for RAND in 1959. Following this, Shubert covers his contacts with and impressions of RAND before beginning work there, the interdisciplinary approach at RAND and the differing views of it held by various RAND personnel and departments, emergence of new disciplines at RAND, and the stress at RAND on keeping abreast of developments in one's academic field.
July 29, 1986
TAPE 1, SIDE 1
1-4 Shubert's early years; background biographical information
1 Early childhood, family life; Shubert's interest in reading
2-3 Years at Carson Long military boarding school starting at age 8; description of school philosophy and resulting conditions
3 Influential teachers at Carson Long
3-4 Extent of Shubert's early interest in the hard sciences
4-9 College years, 1945-1950
4-5 Acceptance and scholarship at Yale
5 Curriculum focus - social sciences, literature, and writing
5-6 Description of transition from Carson Long to Yale
6-7 Effect of the G.I. Bill upon Yale campus during post WWII years
7-8 Sociology as a discipline during the postwar period
8-9 Graduate assistantship at NYU
9-14 Air Force Years, 1951-1955
9 Enlistment in Air Force as an aviation cadet, 1951
10 Member of carrier transport squadron in Korea; flight training and transfer to AFCRC at Hanscom Field
10-11 Research flights at AFCRC
13 Reiteration of duties as flight support for the AFCRC
13-18 Employment at MIT/Lincoln laboratory
14-15 First position held - administrative assistant in one of the radar groups
TAPE 1, SIDE 2
15 Move to the director's office; assistant to the director concerning managerial and organizational matters
15-16 Defining the organizational relationship between Lincoln Lab, Division 6, and the SAGE system
16-17 Shubert's past managerial responsibilities and his evaluation of management literature in the late 1940s -early 1950s
17-18 Move to Paris; creating a support system for an engineering design and consulting activity
19-30 Years at RAND, 1959-present
19 Shubert's consideration of job possibilities at RAND; brief mention of influential people such as Ed Barlow and Bill Graham
20 Shubert's assessment of Lincoln Lab's perception of RAND
20-21 Early RAND contacts in Santa Monica - Ed Barlow, Bill Graham, Bill Kaufmann, Charlie Hitch
21 Shubert's perception of RAND's mission
22-23 Discussion of Shubert's various early projects at RAND
23-25 Relationship between RAND and the Air Force
25-26 Discussion of various organizational patterns at RAND
27-29 Similarities and differences between RAND and universities
TAPE 2, SIDE 1
29-30 Shubert's role in establishing an organizational structure at RAND General Bernard
August 10, 1988
TAPE 1, SIDE 1
31-32 Problems in establishing interdisciplinary research at RAND; budget and promotion authority centered in divisions
32-34 RAND staff who did pursue interdisciplinary work: Albert Wohlstetter, Ed Barlow, Harry Rowan, Stephen Enthoven, Charlie Hitch; David Novick's criticism of interdisciplinary work; differences among proponents as to nature of interdisciplinary work
34-35 RAND physics division; focus on technology
35-37 RAND mathematics division under John Williams; his encouragement of interdisciplinary cooperation
37-38 RAND director of projects: Ed Barlow; the Strategic Offenses Forces Study; Air Force response to SOFS
39 Albert Wohlstetter's approach to interdisciplinary research
39-40 Impact of SOFS on RAND's morale
40 Ed Barlow's role in Mercury program, systems engineering
40-41 RAND study analyzing productive ways to do research and development; recommended abandonment of systems engineering; Burt Klein, Bill Mechling and Emanuel Mesthene
TAPE 1, SIDE 2
41-43 RAND engineering departments and approach to systems studies
43-45 RAND Economic Analysis Department and Cost Department; approach to interdisciplinary work; Jack Hirshleifer, water resource management project; mismatch between current graduating PhDs in economics and RAND need for policy researchers
45-47 RAND Logistics Department: contribution to RAND and to Air Force; role in interdisciplinary research
47-48 Issue of RAND researchers meeting both the professional standards of RAND and of their academic community
48 Emergence of systems analysis as a discipline
48-49 Emergence of policy analysis as a discipline
49 RAND professionals develop outside peer groups
49-50 Shubert's efforts to keep up with professional societies and journals; RAND policy that its staff keep up with their academic fields
50-52 RAND social science department; lack of cooperation in interdisciplinary work Hans Speier; Bill Kaufman's efforts to enlist interest in interdisciplinary work
52 Reasons for Barlow's inability to make cross - disciplinaryefforts work
Specht, Robert. Date: June 26, 1989. Interviewer: Martin Collins. Auspices: RAND. Length: 2 hrs.; 30 pp. Use restriction: Public.
Specht (b. 1920) initially reviews his upbringing and education. He then discusses why he accepted a position in the Mathematics Department of RAND in 1949, John William's leadership of the department, the use of consultants like Warren Weaver and John von Neumann, his involvement with the development of systems analysis, and the evolution of the Systems Development Division. Specht next describes his impressions of Frank Collbohm, other projects the Mathematics Department worked on, and the department's contributions to RAND.
TAPE 1, SIDE 1
1-3 Early family background and history
3-4 Initial Attraction to RAND; recommendations from Quade and Germond
4-5 Responsibilities and activities at RAND; John Williams' approach in Mathematics Department
5-7 Description of RAND interdisciplinary projects during the first fifteen years RAND's use of consultants; Warren Weaver's contact with the Mathematics Department
7-8 Von Neumann's contributions to game theory
8-9 Development at RAND
TAPE 1, SIDE 2
9-11 Summer studies at RAND
11-12 Contact with Quade and Paxson during their development of systems analysis
12 Specht's involvement in and sensitivity to Systems analysis issues
12-13 Striking a balance between research and administrative activities
13-16 Evolution of the Systems Development Division Characterization of Frank Collbohm's positive and negative prejudices
16-17 Project briefings and presentations Investigations into dynamic and linear
18 Programming
TAPE 2, SIDE 1
18-20 Sam Genesky's creation of the Center for the Partially Sighted
20-21 Intellectual framework of early RAND studies
21-23 Notion of the Kriegspiel as an integral aspect of RAND culture
23-28 Mathematics Departments' contributions to RAND efforts
28-30 Closing comments
Speier, Hans. Date: April 5, 1988. Interviewer: Martin Collins. Auspices: RAND. Length: 4.5 hrs.; 65 pp. Use restriction: Permission required to quote, cite or reproduce.
After reviewing his upbringing and post-graduate education in sociology and economics in Germany, Speier (b. 1905) discusses his emigration to the United States in 1933, research at the New School for Social Research, work for the Federal Communications Commission and Office of War Information during World War II, and work for the State Department after the war. He then describes various aspects of his twenty-three year career at RAND, including how he came to work for RAND in 1948 as head of the Social Sciences Division in Washington, D.C., responsibilities as a division head, early social science studies, hiring philosophy for his staff, relations with management, and RAND support of outside research.
TAPE 1, SIDE 1
1-3 Speier's family and graduate studies at Heidelberg
3-5 Marriage; decision to leave Germany; offer of employment at New School for Social Research, in New York (Alvin Johnson)
5-6 Speier's early research interests: study of German white-collar workers, impact of Hitler's rise to power, sociology of politics, German militarism
6-8 Research on German war propaganda; project analyzing Nazi propaganda financed by Rockefeller Foundation, headed by Speier and Ernst Kris
9-10 World War II begins, Speier accepts position at FCC in Washington, D.C., to analyze German wartime propaganda
TAPE 1, SIDE 2
10-13 FCC analysis of German propaganda (continued)
13-16 Transfer to Office of War Information, writing directives to Voice of America concerning propaganda directed to Germany; decisions concerning broadcast of information on Nazi concentration camps; decision concerning 1944 assassination attempt on Hitler
16-18 OWI sends Speier to Germany after German surrender; impressions of Germany; decision concerning showing of film on concentration camps, The Mills of Death
18-19 Meets and works for William Benton on State Department German desk briefly after war
19-21 Return to New School; reasons for leaving government service
TAPE 2, SIDE 1
21-26 Interest in continuing to work on foreign policy; consultantship with State Department; invitation to 1947 RAND conference; conference discussion of projects proposed by attendees related to national interest; impression of Warren Weaver, and of the conference
26-29 RAND perspective on future and on chance, nature of problem-solving in foreign affairs - split between social and natural scientists
29-30 Speier approached about position at RAND; impression of John Williams
30-31 Speier's hesitation about RAND's connection to Douglas Aircraft; difficulty communicating to business or administrative types, the nature of social science intellectual work and resources needed; (Nathan Leites, Frank Collbohm)
32 Decision to locate social science division in Washington, D.C.
TAPE 2, SIDE 2
32-34 Decision to locate social science division in Washington, D.C. (continued); related 1957 budget problems (Victor Hunt, Dick Goldstein)
34-40 Speier's sense of his role as division head, as buffer between analysts and top administrators; freedom in work habits at RAND; Nathan Leites' study of France; relationships in his management role with Frank Collbohm, with Dick Goldstein; RAND recognition of merit rather than rank; impression of John von Neumann
40-44 RAND expectations for staff performance; Frank Collbohm's role in evaluation; impression of Albert Wohlstetter; RAND briefings
44-45 RAND management role in evaluation of performance (continued); Nathan Leites' study of Soviet system
TAPE 3, SIDE 1
45 Nathan Leites' study of Soviet system (continued)
45-46 RAND performance evaluation system (continued)
47-48 Speier's introduction at RAND, and first thoughts about role of the social science division; Speier's responsibilities and freedom as division head, and initial projects
48-50 WARBO (war bombing) study: idea of warning civilian populations before raids
50-51 Other early social science studies: Janis on air war and emotional stress; Selznick on Soviet "organizational weapon"; Soviet studies program (Leites, Goure, Dinerstein)
51-53 Speier criteria in hiring: government experience, an area specialty, language capability; encouragement of contacts between RAND and leading groups in countries under study; (Visit of Weizacker, German physicist to RAND, and response of Henry Rowen.) German studies, on leadership and foreign policy, and on atomic war and rearmament; French study, on government and policy formation
54-55 RAND support for collaborative efforts with universities; Phil Davison study of Berlin blockade and airlift
55 RAND Soviet studies
TAPE 3, SIDE 2
55 RAND-sponsored funds, partly used to support nonclassified research; for example, Herbert Goldhamer and Marshall study of relationship of psychosis to social environment
56-58 Factors considered by Speier in hiring staff, his approach to interviewing applicants; initiating staff to RAND, peer review of papers, interaction between staff members
58-59 Staff salaries
60-62 Development of the social science division staff; staff recruitment (Joe Goldsen, Dinerstein, Herbert Goldhamer Fred Ikle, Marshall)
62-65 RAND award of stipends through universities, development of ties with universities (consultants, summer visiting researchers), RAND staff sabbaticals and employee benefits
Tanham, George. Date: August 19, 1987. Interviewer: Martin Collins. Auspices: RAND. Length: 1.5 hrs.; 29 pp. Use restriction: Permission required to quote, cite or reproduce.
Tanham (b. 1922) initially describes his upbringing, undergraduate education in history, service in the US Army during World War II, post-war higher education, and his teaching and work on Project Vista at CALTECH. He then discusses his work as a social science consultant to RAND beginning in January 1954, and his acceptance of a full-time position in the Social Sciences Department of RAND in 1955. Tanham next reviews some of his duties at and impressions of RAND during his tenure there, including his work on Project Sierra and the general subject of guerilla warfare; the interaction of the Social Sciences Department with other departments; his relations with L.J. Henderson, Frank Collbohm, Dick Goldstein, and others; his appointment as the first RAND liaison officer to the Director of Plans and some of the difficulties inherent in that position; and the overall RAND/USAF relationship.
TAPE 1, SIDE 1
1 Family and early education
1-3 Undergraduate years at Princeton; military training; social work with soldiers at Memphis hospital
3-5 Graduate study at Stanford; masters thesis; teaching at CALTECH; doctoral dissertation work on Belgian resistance
5-6 Work on CALTECH's Project Vista for Secretary of Defense
6-9 Teaching experience at CALTECH (contd); military history course Tanham taught; Ford Foundation supported year at Oxford University
9-11 Hired as consultant, then full time by RAND, Sierra war games and Ed Paxton; Tanham writes report on Vietminh; systems analysis; Tanham's initial perceptions of RAND; battlefield intelligence study
11-13 Differences between RAND social scientists and RAND economists; Hans Speier; Charlie Hitch
14-15 Relationship of RAND to Air Force
15 RAND-initiated projects; compared to CALTECH atmosphere
TAPE 1, SIDE 2
15-17 Opportunity for interdisciplinary research; RAND compared to CALTECH; Sierra war game; Project Vista; factors in warfare
17-18 Guerilla warfare; Tanham's book on the subject
18-19 Interaction with other departments at RAND
19-20 Tanham's appointment as first RAND liaison officer and director of plans; Larry Henderson; General John Carey
20-22 Support of Carey for Tanham; Tanham's exposure to information not to be shared with RAND
22-23 Air Force view of its relationship with RAND; competition between Air Force Plans and RAND
23-26 Tanham's relationship with Larry Henderson, with RAND top management (Frank Collbohm, Dick Goldstein), with researchers
25-26 Air Force/RAND relationship
26 Long-term versus short turnaround requests
27-28 Tanham's political sensitivity; also his role as an "interpreter" between RAND and Air Force staff
28-29 Tanham's arrangement of RAND briefings
Thompson, Crawford C. Date: July 29, 1987. Interviewers: Martin Collins and Joseph Tatarewicz. Auspices: RAND. Length: 4.5 hrs.; 67 pp. Use restriction: Open.
After briefly reviewing his upbringing and education, Crawford (b. May 10, 1919) discusses his work as a contracts administrator for Douglas Aircraft beginning in 1942, the impact of the end of the war on the firm, and working with Larry Tollefson in 1946 on the original RAND Project contract. He then describes various contracts he drafted for the RAND Project while still at Douglas, moving to the RAND Project in 1947, initial responsibilities thereafter in the contracting and financial areas, and the legal and administrative problems faced when RAND split off from Douglas in 1948. Crawford next covers the negotiation of the second RAND/USAF contract in 1949, the response of RAND to threatened USAF budget reductions the following year, RAND's decision to construct its own building and controversies with the USAF concerning use charges for it, the changes in USAF procurement regulations and their effect on RAND, and the creation of Systems Development Corporation and Analytic Services.
TAPE 1, SIDE 1
1, 5 Early biographical and educational background
2-12 Initial employment at Douglas Aircraft; responsibilities; organization of contracts administration at Douglas; Ed Curtis; Larry Tollefson; Scott King
6-7 Broad organizational issues at Douglas Aircraft
7-9 Initial introduction to RAND concept; Douglas and Collbohm interest in RAND contract
TAPE 1, SIDE 2
12-17 Tollefson and Thompson work on initial RAND contract; original RAND concept and proposals; Air Force role in RAND's establishment; General Hap Arnold; Ed Bowles; Vannevar Bush; General Curtis LeMay
17-19 Interaction among Douglas management
19-24 Impact on Douglas of World War II ending; plant closings; layoffs; Douglas' unsuccessful commercial ventures
TAPE 2, SIDE 1
24 C-54 spare part problem as tooling equipment overworked
24-25 Douglas contract to make production drawings of German V-2
25-26 Initial impact of RAND contract on Douglas Aircraft
26-28 RAND initial staff-building; subcontracts; staff transferred from Douglas
28-29 Organizational interface of Project RAND and Douglas; Scott King appointed RAND administrator; Thompson becomes member of Project RAND staff
29-31 Clearance requirements at Douglas and RAND; retaining of classified and unclassified early RAND documents
31 RAND contract details
31-33 Contract administration at Project RAND
33-34 Development of RAND administrative policies, including personnel
TAPE 2, SIDE 2
34-37 Contractual and legal issues in separating Project RAND from Douglas; role of Rowan Gaither
37-38 Development of policies for new RAND Corporation administration
38-40 Role of legal counsel in RAND; Rowan Gaither; Ed Huddleson
40-41 RAND personnel policies
41-42 Development of RAND accounting system
42-43 Ford Foundation loan/guaranteed line of credit
43-44 Air Force sponsorship and Project RAND conflict of interest issues; diversification of support
TAPE 3, SIDE 1
45-47 Thompson's role in RAND Corporation after its establishment; personnel policies
45-48 Hiring of consultants
48-49 RAND personnel tour of duty policy
49-51 Second RAND contract with Air Force, 1949; Air Force suggestion that RAND seek additional sources of support; Don Putt
52-53 Atomic Energy Commission contract in 1950
53-55 RAND response to threatened Air Force budget reductions
TAPE 3, SIDE 2
55-56 RAND response to potential reduction of Air Force support
57-58 RAND decision to construct own building and use charge negotiation with Air Force
58-60 Later disagreement with Air Force over use charge arrangement; Aerospace Corporation; Gene Zuckert
60-63 Change in Air Force Procurement regulations; TD 5000; impact on contract negotiations
62 Role of attorneys
63-66 RAND contract with Air Defense Command to train AC&W station crews and programming of SAGE computer; SDC spin-off
66-67 RAND starts Analytic Services (ANSER)
TAPE 4, SIDE 1
67 Outline of RAND activities 1957-1973
Wohlstetter, Albert. Date: July 29, 1987. Interviewers: Martin Collins and Joseph Tatarewicz. Auspices: RAND. Length: 2 hrs.; 24 pp. Use restriction: Permission required quote, cite or reproduce.
Wohlstetter initially reviews the recruitment of his wife by RAND in the late 1940s, the attraction of RAND for him, and his consulting work for the Mathematics Division of RAND beginning in 1951. He then describes various aspects of working on the basing studies completed in 1953 and 1954, his increasing involvement in work outside of RAND after their completion, RAND's work environment, and his concerns beginning in the late 1950s over the future of RAND's work product due to such factors as conducting joint studies with the USAF.
TAPE 1, SIDE 1
1-3 Factors that attracted Wohlstetter to work at RAND: J.C.C. McKinsey, Alfred Tarsky, Abe Gershik, Olaf Helmer, Roberta Wohlstetter
3-5 Begins work as consultant with RAND in 1951
5-7 Importance of interdisciplinary work and project officers at RAND; systems analysis methods; Ed Paxson, Ed Quade
7-8 Wohlstetter's conceptualization and analysis basis problem to be examined by the basing study; his emphasis on "framing the question" in problem-solving
TAPE 1, SIDE 2
9-10 Basing study (continued); freedom at RAND from deadlines; factors complicating basing study; RAND bomb damage assessment wheel, complexity of problem: his attitude toward interdisciplinary work
11-12 Influence of systems analysis approach used in basing study; Quade course on systems analysis for Air Force personnel
12-13 Lag time between performance of basing study and publication of reports
13-15 Goal of changing policy conflicts with prompt publication; importance in doing systems design (analyses) of respecting questions posed by policy makers and implementers
15-16 Collaboration within university settings
16-17 How RAND generated interdisciplinary work
17 C.E. Lindblom paper Bargaining: The Hidden Hand in Government
17-18 Excitement of working at RAND in the 1950s
TAPE 2, SIDE 1
18-19 Wohlstetter increasingly involved in work outside of RAND; R290 study; briefing of Gaither Panel; member of National Security Council Acheson Committee to reconsider European policy
19-20 Wohlstetter's concern with imperfections of RAND system; concern that changes occurring would discourage creative thinking
20-22 Development of idea for the silo during R290 study
22-23 Freedom and time within RAND to develop new even startling ideas; different styles of working within different sections of RAND; Nathan Leites; Herb Goldhammer; Roberta Wohlstetter; Fred Ikle and permissive action link
23-24 Fear in 1960 that positive RAND attributes were threatened by joint studies with Air Force, budget tightening, general lack of sympathy with idea that policy research must be independent
RAND, part1, A-K || RAND, part2, L-Z Rev. 10/13/95, mjt
