Re: [CTRL] Sons Of Mau Mau Declare War On Freemasonry

Wed, 08 Jan 2003 22:18:29 -0800

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BUUUUUUUUUUURP!!!
 
O! Pardonne! Bit O Xmas and New Years Cheer hanging over!
----- Original Message -----
From: Zuukie
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 11:37 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Sons Of Mau Mau Declare War On Freemasonry

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David,

Rather than do a “he said” “she said”, I’m going to try and answer your comments here at the top.

Wow Zuukie! You really must hate Masons and Jews to go into all this broodish denial. Perhaps you might consider booking into one those New Age farms and work off some of this angst you carry around? Meditation classes, aromatherapy, a good rub, spa, sauna, maybe ignite the old Kundalini, who knows - a bit of Tantric sex perhaps? Still, I would recommend you not leave the Zoloft behind.   

Regarding the “documenting”, unless you know something I don’t know, I think you shouldn’t confuse yourself with the researchers at the Holocaust Museum.  They documented.  You posted a link.

For the purposes of a small forum a few links are about as good a "documentation" as anything else. Besides the epistemological nature of what you ask is so obscene and foolish as to be laughable. You ask me to prove what you disagree with and to document things not even originally touched on whilst throwing up Zuukie conspiracy theories all the while throughout.

To try and equate Nazi war against the Jews with the Nazi war against the Masons is a weak position to take.

I didn't equate it. The Nazi's did. Hitler's signature approved it.

But you are too busied with frazzled argumentativeness to see or appreciate this fact and then suggest something was said which wasn't.

Masons weren’t rounded up and killed en masse.  While the Nazis publicly equated the Jews with the Masons, they were looking very closely at what the Masons were involved with, more like the Democrats vs the Republicans than Nazis as destroyers of the Jews. 

Now you have me hysterics. Next you'll be right into the same old Masonic-Jewish conspiracy theories promoted by Hitler, the popes clerics, and the White Race Brigade and their co-anti-Semites. Seems we're back into playing the numbers charades like they do. In this respect, what then separates you from the Irvingites and Zundelites - if Jews, as your imply further on are your friends? The so-called "Revisionists" argue along the same line.

 

So lets say there weren't "6 million" Masons persecuted or killed, but 60,000 were - so on and so forth goes that style of talk which you appear to embrace now. Here you are taking the same tack against Masons as the anti-Semites do against Jews. It's become a numbers game, not about the lives and the ideological nature of the political and religious systems that decimated people.  

 

Do you know how many Masons were murdered by the Nazi's?  

 

I've heard Jewish apologists say that even if ONE Jewish person had died under Nazi methods it is unacceptable (and i agree). Are you going to come out and say the same for Masons Zuukie? Or are Masons lesser forms of human life in the "moral" view that you espouse and their persecution and bloody killing needs to be sanitised and sterilized which you seem to do in your next paragraph.

Destroying the Masonic organization is not the same as being aware of who is involved with what.  The Nazis attacked the Masons for political reasons.  The Masons have been attacked by the Catholic Church for religious reasons.   Other than Pat Robertson, who I wouldn’t trust to hold my bus transfer, I’ve come across very few attacks on the Masons other than from those who are fighting the New Age movement, something that anyone who loves freedom should be doing.

You mean the Pat Robertson that said, “There will never be world peace until God’s house and God’s people are given their rightful place of leadership at the top of the world.” Why would you then trust anything that came out of, say Roman Catholicism. That is its sole reason for existence.   

 

Not sure what are you talking about in the next bit - joining New Agers? Or attacking Masons? Or "fighting" both but we let their attackers, like the vast political institution and persecutory monolith of Roman Catholicism go free? The term Catholicism, by the way is akin to Universalism, or in modern lingo we could call it Roman GLOBALISM.

 

So being attacked by Roman Globalism for "religious reasons" is being attacked how? Less so? Do you mean "attacked" like a catfight, hair pulling and nail scratching as opposed to the rack, flame, drowning, torture or strangulation? Religion would never think of such barbarity as the Inquisition or inspire the Catholic Croat Ustasha, or Right Wing Fascist regimes, or Marxist terrorists - would it? 

 

In addition, I would think when the 'prince' of the Brit-ianity, the Archbishop of Anglicanism, comes out in the press with an attack on an essentially secular benevolent society with his obscurest mumbo jumbo about "incompatibility" one has to wonder where you've been hiding Zuukie? You haven't been into any Xtian bookstore and noticed their proliferate hate books about Masons as "Satanists" and devil worshippers. Terms they use liberally for anybody they don't like.

 

The stigma attached to Free-masonry by Vaticanism has deep roots. Clement XII issued his papal bull In Eminenti banning Masonry and forbidding lodge membership for Catholics. He declared:

 

"For the sake of the peace and safety of civil governments, and spiritual safety of souls, and to prevent these men from plundering the House like thieves, laying waste the Vineyard like wolves, perverting the minds of the incautious and shooting down innocent people from their hiding places.... no Catholic was to be a Freemason".

 

Eleven other popes would condemn Freemasonry in the most vitriolic language possible. Leo XII lamented the fact that Christian princes and heads of state had not fully obeyed the Vatican in suppressing Masonry, "as the safety of both Church and State required", in the words of one Jesuit writer. Pius VIII declared of the Masons that "lying is their rule, Satan is their God, and shameful deeds their sacrifice....". Gregory XVI wrote that Masons and kindred secret brethren were comparable to a sewer in which "are congregated and intermingled all of the sacrileges, infamy and blasphemy which are contained in the most abominable heresies." Pius IX, outdoing his papal predecessors, condemned Masonry in six separate bulls between 1846 and 1873, denouncing "those baneful secret sects who have come forth from the darkness for the ruin and devastation of Church and State...."

When Catholic Hitler, who was taught by Catholic monks, and his henchman came to power - having signed a political concordat with the Vatican, it is understandable how religiously indoctrinated beliefs coupled with religio-political alliances turned Masons and those they aligned with Masons such as Jews, into targets for the Nazis.

A quick search on the Net linking "Masons" and "Conspiracy" came up with over 36,000 entries. Near the top of the search engine we have that crackpot of conspiracism David Icke who claims giant blood-sucking lizards rule the world via effigies of the Brit Queen, George Bush et al. 

 

I originally put forth the idea that Icke and co (although Icke may have simply been a pawn) were simply using their "Reptilian" crock as a code-word for Jews. It is a crazy revamped phrase for the old "Masonic Jewish World Conspiracy" paradigm partly akin to the medieval stigma of Jews as blood-sucking vampires.I notice my notion has been taken up by others now.

 For a long time I stayed away from looking at where the Masons fit into all of this.  Most of the Masons are probably nice people who are just involved with the organization to make contacts at the local level.  A nice fraternity kind of thing.   .  That shouldn’t take away from more serious research on that organization.  It’s just possible that those who become involved with that organization are introduced to ideas destructive to Judaism and Christianity while not having any source to help them think things thru, looking at all sides of a belief system.  Loyalty to Masonic core and one’s co-organizationists represents a threat to cultural stability as others want to have it.

I wouldn't have thought that peace, tolerance and brotherhood between all mankind was bad and evil and something so-called Christians would be opposed to. Which makes you wonder where alleged Xtians are coming from doesn't it?

 

As founders and authors of the liberties and the laws of your own nation, allegedly once the bastion of the "Free," one would think that these men might have good cause to be thanked and praised rather than hated by modern religionists who seem to foment war and discord wherever their doctrines are allowed to take root.

 I really don’t believe the enemy of my enemy is necessarily my friend.  Therefore I can step back and look at the differences between the attacks on Jews and Masons then and now.  Just to throw a fact into the mix, anyone can look at the friendliness and parallels in thinking between the Baileys of Lucis Trust and the Masons.

The attacks aren't any different. Are you that sheltered? The same old spirits echo through the same old voices. What is chilling is the fact the you want to "distinguish" one persecution and murder over another.

 

This is indicative of your own bigotry toward humanity than any mindless conspiracy theory (below) you can drum up over some gaudy neo-hippies with their fairies, baubles and bangles out to subdue the world with magic crystals.

To me you come across as someone who just promotes simplistic thinking leading to a frame of thinking that is in sync with New Age thinking, something I find very destructive to freedom.  Are attacks on individual Masons justified?  No.  Is research focusing on that organization justified?  Yes.  Masons don’t deserve a free pass because the Nazis opposed them.

This is just sanctimony from someone who is offended and angry by another's opinions. I don't see that objective critique of individuals is harmful, as that of groups. I haven't said otherwise. My central point, in contra to the original news report, was that it espoused mob blood-lust with stupid religionists egging the mindless herd on.

 

Zuukie, you come to the table and claim objectivity. Yet you cannot hold back your the obvious bigotry instilled in you by paranoid conspiracy theories. So inevitably you are made to utter the words of the true bigot, "Masons don’t deserve a free pass because the Nazis opposed them." Such a tender spirit. The calibre of "research" which you adjure is one already rooted in suspicion and not a "fair go" attitude. It could never be unbiased or objective.  

 

You offer the facade of objectivity in reality you are loaded with innuendo and suspicion by your own words, "Masons don't deserve". Your style is the immediate demonisation, for Masons there is no "free pass" to Zuukie Nirvana unless the Brothers succumb to Zuukie's brand of paranoia and the Zuukie Inquisition.

 

You'll have to better than dust and demonise me with "New Ager" make-up. It could be dangerous - you might find me more attractive as a SNAG! 

 

To affect change requires real money, real power and Real Politick. The religious institution behind the "New Age" movement is the Vatican. Heralded prominently amongst New Agers are Catholic pop-priest writers and super-guru Catholic Jesuits like Teilhard de Chardin - also the "Piltdown Man" forger.

 

Dave.

 

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