-Caveat Lector-
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 12:22:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Party of Citizens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [BCPOLITICS] [LIFE-GAZETTE] RE: [biofeedback] Re: Faith Healing
(fwd)
Why do you associate with people who make a practice of religious fraud?
Ask Kooy why his community doesn't do the study below since faith-healing
is practiced by every so-called "Christian" denomination. He doesn't even
know what a pro-Christ religious leader would be like. Ask him about his
email on Oct 8/02: "I am sorry but when did I profess to be an expert on
the knowledge of a pro Christ religious leader". So how then does he know
that the CHP leader who has been on NOW TV is bona fide? He is playing
mind games and vanity games to flim flam a gullible public. Maybe you are
looking for future clients to defend from fraud charges?
POC
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 12:11:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Party of Citizens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [LIFE-GAZETTE] RE: [biofeedback] Re: Faith Healing
The fundamental issue with faith-healing has to do with the old chicken
and egg riddle. Is there a purely subjective state of mind which causes
the physical-biological effects or is it vice-versa? Does anyone have an
answer from biofeedback experience? It is worth $1,000,000 if you do.
As for the "religionists" well, who expects honesty from pray tv? If there
were anything to their pray techniques, they woudn't be hustling as they
are for nickles and dimes. James Randi has called their bluff
successfully. All it takes is a simple study. First, seek volunteer
patients at hospitals in a region and explain the nature of the study.
Next, randomly assign them to two groups. Give the allowed file
information on the prayed-for group to the best prayer practitioners in
the region. Then follow up the two groups with medical tests. The patients
and medical staff don't know which group is which. As long as you assure
that the pray-ers don't act in a way to distort the results (eg by
visiting the patients in the hospital) this should work.
It is an easy $1,000,000 if there is any power in these prayer techniques.
POC
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003, Valdeane W. Brown, Ph.D. wrote:
> Stephen:
>
> Yes, it is quite likely that each activity directly -- and perhaps locally
> -- affects the CNS and the real question is: how significant is this to
> providing useful and effective NF training. While it may be very
> interesting, it also may turn out to just not be that particularly relevant
> -- like knowing where in the world someone is with whom you are carrying on
> an electronic conversation.
>
> It is also the case that studies of the effectiveness of prayer and other
> non-traditional supports of the healing process have also suffered the
> "denial drawer" effect of simply being dismissed out of hand -- simply
> because those ideas are, quite literally, unorthodox to many in this
> culture.
>
> I think the accumulating weight of evidence is indicating both a shift in
> that overall culture of denial, if you will, as well increasing amount of
> support for a cautious interest in utilizing prayer and other forms of
> support, when those are culturally and individually congruent for client and
> the client's significant others. These ideas are certainly an integral part
> of hospice care, but in that environment there is a clear recognition that
> the concept of "healing" really means "to make whole" or "to return to
> wholeness" while other interventions are (or are not) used rather than a
> simpler or exclusive focus on the "removal/curing/treating of disease".
> Including the spiritual meanings and practices of a client can be an
> essential aspects of recovering and experiencing wholeness -- regardless of
> whether or not the "disease" is cured.
>
> val
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen P. Dal Cerro, Ph.D. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 6:00 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [biofeedback] Re: Faith Healing
>
> I'm not sure how significant it is that "neurologoical changes" have
> been identified, or localized to specific sites in the brain. The
> same would be true of learning a new song on the piano, memorizing a
> comedy routine,..even just having a random thought. All things
> conscious (and unconscious) register, and alter, the brain in some
> way.
>
> Also, studies of faith healing suffer the confound of the 'file
> drawer effect." Positive results are reported, negative results are
> not.
>
> SDC
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Rick Weiss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Recent studies have shown neurological changes in persons who pray.
> I saw this on CNN. The areas of the brain involved have been clearly
> identified. The positive physiological effects have been clearly
> identified. In our field we are aware of the early studies of Zen
> monks changing their brainwave patterns with meditation.
> >
> > I think we can safely say that one can indeed change their brain
> with prayer, meditation, and brainwave training. That is good news to
> people who don't understand or believe in neurofeedback. We should be
> applauding these findings. We have an opportunity to educate using
> these findings. Our society is now focusing on the brain and it's
> changes during prayer and my psychological hat is off to them.
> >
> > Rick Weiss, LCSW
> > www.braintrainoregon.com
> >
> > Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:06:58 -0000
> > From: "Bruce Z. Berman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: Re: Faith Healing
> >
> > Jerome Frank might also be a good read for understanding the power
> of
> > faith as a common factor in change.
> >
> > Bruce Z. Berman
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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>
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>
>
>
>
> http://www.ThoughtTechnology.com MyoTrac 2/3/3G, U-Control ProComp+
> BioGraph, CardioPro, FlexComp + training
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> CalmLink GSR2 Stress-Reduction Multimedia Software is available now!
> Low cost BrainMaster EEG System at http://www.BiofeedbackZone.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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