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--- Begin Message --- -Caveat Lector- www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ======================================================================== Archives Available at:
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-Caveat Lector- PLEASE FORWARD
http://www.kpfk.org
http://www.digitalvillage.org
http://www.blackboxvoting.org
Doran Barons and Ric Allan host the program, Digital Village,
Saturdays at 11 AM on KPFK, 90.7 FM, Los Angeles.
The following is a transcript of Doran's and Ric's 11-06-04 interview of
David Dill from VerifiedVoting.org and Bev Harris from BlackBoxVoting.org
regarding the continuing investigation of election problems occuring
around the country during the Nov 2, 2004 national election in the US.
------------------------------
RIC ALLAN: Bev [Harris] is still in that meeting but we are joined by,
DORAN BARONS: David Dill.
RIC: David Dill from,
DORAN: Verified Voting.
RIC: I'll tell you, we're excited here. How are you doing?
DAVID DILL: I'm doing great.
RIC: Good. Bring a little sanity to the air waves, David. Tell us our democracy is not over and why.
DAVID: Well, I'm an optimist.
[laughter]
RIC: That's why.
DORAN: Overall, how would you [unintelligible] ?
DAVID: I think probably, if you look back at this election, it wasn't worse than previous elections. And in fact we got lucky because, you know, it would have been very bad if Florida had been a tie and it had gotten down to trying to do a recount on those electronic voting machines cause we couldn't have done it. The reason we're hearing so much about this election - and I think we've only scratched the surface, we're going to hear a lot more - is because it was so thoroughly scrutinized by people like Black Box Voting.org, and, uhh, by the Election Protection Coalition.
DORAN: Right.
DAVID: And one of the things that Verified Voting did as part of that was to collect in a computer system a lot of the incident reports that came into the Election Protection Coalition that's sixty plus organizations. We [Verified Voting] built the computer system, along with CPSR - Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility, called the Election Incident Reporting System. Not all the reports are in there, but anybody can go look at [what's there] now at VoteProtect.org .
You can select different kinds of reports. It includes everything from polling place queries to machine problems, and you can see the hundreds of problems that are reported there with electronic voting machines of various kinds.
DORAN: Once again, what's the URL for that website?
DAVID: VoteProtect, all one word, dot org [http://www.voteprotect.org].
RIC: There seems to be a multiplicity of problems here, David. Not only did they report the provisional ballots, first of all, they reported 400,000 were not counted. Then they cut it down to 200,000. Then they cut it down to JUST the amount so that Kerry got to, uh, give up.
[Doran & Ric laughing]
- and those [lost votes] along with the machine counts and the absentee ballots and some of them being lost, and votes being mysteriously changed from Kerry to Bush, and counties that only had six hundred registered voters having a thousand votes for Bush.
Across the board, how are we going to really attack this problem.
DAVID: Well I think what Bev [Bev Harris of BlackBoxVoting.org] is doing is exactly the right thing. We need to get as much data as we can about this election and comb through it. Now my guess is that after we do that, we'll see that it's unlikely that there was a problem of such magnitude that it would have changed the outcome of the election, at which point progressives can start focusing on how to get more votes. But we definitely need to do that combing just to find out if there was a problem. And if there wasn't a problem, to SHOW that there wasn't a problem.
DORAN: We're going to talk with Bev [Harris] in just a second. I do want to ask you though, David, did you see any areas - did this bring out any areas into [unintelligible] that need to be taken care of before we have another election?
DAVID: Yes, lots of them. One of the surprises that I found was that the older voting machines, the older electronic machines failed rather catastrophically in places like New Orleans and we hadn't heard about that before and I think the problem was that we just weren't watching. There were problems reported all over the country with machines changing the votes that were displayed for the voters. The voters had a chance to look at them and see that they were wrong and fix them but this needs to be investigated. We don't know why it's happening. And there were several other kinds of errors that were reported all over the country in addition to all the problems that were reported that didn't have to do with electronic voting.
DORAN: Right, that's important to note as well. David Dill of VerifiedVoting.org, thanks for joining us today and letting us know what's going on. Once again, what's that URL for people who want to find out more about results?
DAVID: VoteProtect.org, and our website is VerifiedVoting.org, of course.
DORAN: Right. Thanks again, David Dill.
DAVID: Thank you.
DORAN: Alright, and now were going to wrap it up with the person herself.
RIC: Yeah, we can't wait to find out just exactly...
DORAN: what's in store for us [laughing].
RIC: what Bev is doing as far as that Freedom of Information Act goes. Bev, you with us?
BEV HARRIS: [laughing] I'm here. I can't believe what I heard from this guy [referring to David Dill]
RIC: Yeah...
BEV: I'm sorry. You know, what is this? He has no clue whatsoever what the scope of the problem is. He doesn't even have any of the documents and he's making a statement that there won't be enough [votes] to have changed the election and that people should work on getting out the vote? [laughing] I mean, apparently he doesn't see the documents that are coming in to us. And that's fine but he needs to quit espousing opinions on stuff he's never seen and has no idea about.
DORAN: Well, tell us about what you've seen in the last couple of days.
BEV: Well, we're seeing things like county after county where more votes showed up than there are people in the county. Hello! I would call that not a problem of getting out the vote. Apparently they got out the vote and they had twice as many votes show up as there were people. I would call that probably a manipulation or error at the voting machine. We're seeing situations where we have, not just a few, but dozens of counties show bizarre anomalies that are mathematically impossible and they all have the same exact vendor and type of voting machine.
DORAN: Ha!
BEV: And the counties that don't have that vendor in the same approximate location don't have the anomalies. And by the way, one of those [counties] is big enough to flip one of the states that could flip the presidency.
RIC ALLAN: That was my next question.
DORAN: Now, I've read that your organization, Black Box Voting, has filed a Freedom of Information request, perhaps the largest in history. I wanted to find out more about that. What is it that you're looking for and trying to get access to.
BEV: Well initially we're doing this. You start with baseline data and then you go through it and see which areas seem to have the most anomalies and you follow up with very specific requests with those. We started out by just saying lets get the internal audit logs of your computer. The computer creates an audit log, there are a number of types that it creates and we did a Freedom of Information request seeking the audit logs. We are receiving them. They're coming in. They're flying in. Our mailbox is full. And, what is very interesting in this process is that many of the county officials that have been running elections on these machines and assuring us they're safe, have no idea there even was such a thing as an audit log. I find myself actually having to tell the county official on their own system, “Well what you do is you go to this menu item, see there where it says Audit Log?, now...”
DORAN: A little tech support from Bev. [Ric, Doran and Bev laughing in the background]
BEV: And so, you know, problem number one - when they've been telling us the system is secure, they really don't know what reports it prints or how to use them at all, but be that as it may.
We've also requested all of the documentation, emails and trouble slips. Now, what those are is they have these kind of trouble shooting desks in most large counties and as problems crop up, people call in to this trouble shooting desk and it's like, you know, "we ran out of ballots over here. Send in more ballots". We requested all of the trouble shooting slips and those have, it's like a box of chocolates – you never know what you're going to get - [laughing] they have some of the most strange things on them. I understand that the votes are programmed onto a memory card and [the trouble shooting slips will] say things like, “It won't go through, is it okay to reformat the card?”RIC: Oh boy.
DORAN: [jokingly] That's always encouraging.
BEV: Which means it'll wipe the whole thing out...[unintelligible]. If [the memory card] is in a touch screen that's a serious problem but if it's in an optical scanner it's an equally serious problem, almost, because they aren't using the paper ballots in a particularly coordinated way. We're also seeing in the provisional ballots, and I knew this. I've been saying this. I'm sorry, but I told you so. They set up this national law to have provisional ballots for people who showed up at the polls and they said gee we can't find your voter registration. What they omitted doing is coming up with any kind of way or what to do to count those or account for [provisional ballots]. So, the State of Nevada yesterday went running off and certified the election without ever looking at the provisional ballots because they had no clear idea of how they were supposed to count them. And there were lots and lots and lots of them.
DORAN: So this isn't even electronic voting procedures, these are just other accounting problems. We're running out of time. You're getting all this stuff pouring in now, I imagine it's going to take awhile to go through it Do you have any estimate on the time line before we're certain to find out, you know, any answers about problems, systemic or otherwise?
BEV: Well we're going to start posting documents on systemic problems tonight. The most problematic things we've seen – actually I expected to see more with touch screens but the most problematic things we've seen have been with optical scan systems. In some ways that's not surprising because there's more of them. And [there] have been [problems] with central tabulators, some bizarre things with central tabulators like in Broward County [Florida]. It started counting backwards. [Bev mimics Broward personnel] “It can only accept so many votes, then we count backwards”.
DORAN: [jokingly] To make more room for those 'other' votes. Okay, so you'll start posting stuff tonight you say?
BEV: Yeah we'll be starting to post things tonight and we'll be putting out things once or twice a day. There are a lot of things that we have that we are not posting yet simply because they trigger requests for more detailed things in order to close off the excuses they might come up with cause you know if we see something that looks very bad, it's a good idea to think what might they say about this – do some pretty strategic records requests to kind of close those doors off and then go public with it.
RIC: Okay, two more questions in the last forty five seconds here Bev. Number one, if people around the country have things that they can send you that they have noticed, where do they send it? And the second one is a caller wondered if there was another address other than sending you money online? Because I know you've taken out loans to do this - it's not an inexpensive process.
BEV: They can report problems to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]. The address to send the donations to is: Black Box Voting, PO BOX 25552, Seatle, WA 98165
DORAN: Okay Bev Harris of blackboxvoting.org, keep doing the work, we want to find out what happened.
BEV: Okay, thanks a lot.
DORAN: Thank you for joining us.
RIC: Thank you Bev. Keep the faith, unless it's heresy.
DORAN: Okay, and that's it for this week's edition of Digital Village. If you want to write us my address is [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RIC: And he passes everything along to me, he pacifists everything along to me. And you can check out our website at digitalvillage.org.
DORAN: Just follow the links from kpfk.org.
RIC: When it hasn't been hacked.
[Doran & Ric sign off]
------------------------------- www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ======================================================================== Archives Available at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ <A HREF="">ctrl</A> ======================================================================== To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Om
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